User talk:David E. Volk

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Welcome

Citizendium Getting Started
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Tasks: start a new article • add basic, wanted or requested articles • add definitions • add metadata • edit new pages

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start, and see Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any user or the editors for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun!

You can find some more information about our collaboration groups if you follow this link CZ:Workgroups.You can always ask me on my talk page or others about how to proceed or any other question you might have.

Kind Regards, Robert Tito |  Talk  15:12, 26 March 2007 (CDT)


Citizendium Editor Policy
The Editor Role | Approval Process | Article Deletion Policy

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Welcome, new editor! We're very glad you've joined us. Here are pointers for a quick start. Also, when you get a chance, please read The Editor Role. You can look at Getting Started and our help system for other introductory pages. It is also important, for project-wide matters, to join the Citizendium-L (broadcast) mailing list. Announcements are also available via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and thank you! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise, and we hope to see your edits on Recent changes soon. --Larry Sanger 20:58, 3 April 2007 (CDT)


ToApprove

Congratulations on your first Approval! I did change the date for you and approved the extra edits as you stated on my talk page. When you want to find the latest version, follow these steps: 1)click on the history tab, 2)click on 'compare selected version...' button, 3)click on the 'Revision as of [date]' above the previous diff, 4)click on 'newer revision' under the article title, 5)copy the address from the address bar.. and you got it! It is a long way around. If you ever find a better way, do let me know! Matt Innis (Talk) 18:57, 9 October 2007 (CDT)


Virus template

I think there already is a model for this that has been made; for proteins I think. We should be able to copy that and just change the verbage. --Robert W King 16:44, 16 October 2007 (CDT)

Wait, do you want an infobox? --Robert W King 16:45, 16 October 2007 (CDT)
Ok, I'm caught up. You want an infobox. I can make this easily *but* I must know what criteria you want to be displayed. I had no input with the chemistry infobox I made and thus it is severely lacking in detail. --Robert W King 16:46, 16 October 2007 (CDT)

Isotopes

Can do easily. How do you want it formatted? --Robert W King 12:51, 18 October 2007 (CDT)


small addition to NMR

see if you like this addition - else delete it. Robert Tito |  Talk 



Sppedy Delete - How to

David, at any time to request a deletion, you can simply add {{speedydelete|Insert some reason here}} to the article/image space. --Robert W King 17:34, 7 December 2007 (CST)

Subpagination thanks

Thanks for your work subpaginating articles, David! --Larry Sanger 18:38, 23 December 2007 (CST)

Redirects - How to

It's easy. Say you have an article called "Big Easy" and you want a redirect from "The Big Easy". Just go to the Search box at the top left of the screen. Type in "The Big Easy". You'll get a message saying that it doesn't exist and asking if you want to create it. Click to create a new article. You'll now have a blank edit page. Scroll down to the bottom of the screen to Special Characters. Click on the link that says #REDIRECX [[]]. That should put it up on the edit page. Then type "Big Easy" in between the bracket. Save. That will make the redirect.

allotrope

Hi David, we both wrote something about allotrope/allotropy. Maybe it is better that we merge the two articles and put a redirect?--Paul Wormer 08:19, 29 December 2007 (CST)

Steroid

See query at Steroid. - Robert Badgett 23:49, 31 December 2007 (CST)


River names

David, thanks for your remark about river names. Please give me a note when you have more information regarding naming of river articles. --Igor Grešovnik 12:39, 4 January 2008 (CST)


New NMR guy

Hi David, I'm also glad that we have a new (physical) chemist on board. The content of his NMR article is OK, but the format needs fixing up. How will we proceed, we simply go ahead and fix it (and explain in the talk page why), or will we ask him to adapt it himself? He signed the article and I'm afraid that if we take his signature away he will misunderstand that. --Paul Wormer 09:51, 12 January 2008 (CST)

test

 David E. Volk   talk


NMR spectroscopy : an attempt to get it approved

--Sekhar Talluri 16:39, 16 January 2008 (CST)

I edited the metadata page for my article on NMR spectroscopy in an attempt to send it for approval by you and P. Wormer as editors. However, it appears that somehow I have approved it myself:-) Please feel free to undo/do/fix whatever is necessary , but do consider it for approval. Sincerely

Catalogs

David: Kindly do not remove the Psychology Catalogs category from the bottom of psych pages. It is there to provide a structural guideline.

Secondly, (re: Tao Te Ching) it is fprmatting convention to bold only the topic of an article, not variations on spelling, etc.


Thanks... --Michael J. Formica 18:36, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Drug pages

see Chemistry style guide for guidance now David E. Volk 12:38, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Chem info box

"A box used to contain MW, formula, KEGG, CAS, etc is still under development."

What kind of information do you think should be contained in the box, and how should it be formatted? One thing that bothers me about WPs infoboxes (and I don't know if you feel the same, but please respond) is that they go entirely overboard on numerical inclusions. How can the information in an infobox be used to relay a fundamental principal about a particular chemical, given x amount of properities? --Robert W King 12:02, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Robert, here are my thoughts on Chem_infobox:

First, I think the structures should not be in the box, because large chemicals need big drawing to be readable. Also, the IUPAC names of some compounds are 2-3 sentences long, so I would keep those out also. In my opinion, I would like to keep the box simple and contain the following:

  • Name of Chemical
  • Molecular Formula
  • Molecular Mass
  • Hazards
  • CAS #
  • (optional) Link to an MSDS form, plenty of sites to choose from (this might instead be on the external links page)

BTW, I have programmed in several languages and would like learn how to make templates someday. Could you email me a copy of some code to that? David E. Volk 13:37, 22 February 2008 (CST)

What should the representation of the molecular formula be like? Should it exist in text form, or by some graphic? Is the mass a single number or derived from a forumla? What kinds of hazards should be displayed? What is CAS? Besides the link from MSDS, is there any information from the MSDS that should be included?
Also, what is the overall theme that should be described: how to utilize a chemical compound, or how to safeguard against it, or the dangers of it?
Designing a template is pretty easy as long as you know how to create tables in HTML. The wiki-code uses certain markup which represents the same as table data, rows, columns, and their syntaxes. Basically, almost any html can be employed when creating a template (including DIVs and stylesheets to an extent). However, there are some ways to script your results, including variables and quantification statements such as "if" "exist" and others. I'll dig up the mediawiki help page for you... it's not complicated. --Robert W King 13:52, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Details:

  • Chemical formulas will look like this C6H12O2
  • Molecular Mass, a single number derived from the formula, will look like this: 236.23 g/mol
  • CAS # is the Chemical Abstract Service reference number for a chemical
  • MSDS = "Material Safety Data Sheet" that must be shipped whenever a chemical is purchased. It contains a full gruesome detail of all hazards, melting points, molecular mass, and other details for the reader who wants to know everything. There is not a single MSDS for each chemical. That is, for a given chemical, you can usually find many different versions, like one from Aldrich, one from DuPont, etc.
  • Theme The theme of chemistry articles, like all CZ, should be about the uses of the chemical first, ie why is it important. Note that I added the "Common Uses" to the list above, just before hazards. I had forgotten this on the list. WP uses the 4-diamonds in a diamond type of drawing for hazards, but only experienced chemists know what this means. For the general audience I think simple text is the way to go with hazards. However, hazards should be after common uses IMHO. David E. Volk 14:07, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Azole

Congratulations on approval! D. Matt Innis 11:08, 26 February 2008 (CST)

Approval of Phosphorus

David, I have scanned the article and made a few cosmetic copy edits. Much of the subject matter is way above my knowledge of chemistry, but I am very impressed with the depth of detail that you and Paul Wormer have provided.

The only serious criticism I have is that the article has only one reference. In my opinion, an article of that length and detail should have at least 8-12 references. I think that providing the needed references should be relatively easy for you and Paul.

Once the references have been provided, I would be pleased to start the approval process. I think that what I must do in the "required for ToApprove template" section of the MetaData template is:

  • article url= Provide the article url
  • now= Provide the time (CST) and date
  • ToA editor= Provide my name
  • date= Provide the date that is 6 days after the now=date

Is that correct? If not, please let me know. Regards, - Milton Beychok 12:17, 26 February 2008 (CST)

d-orbitals

Good afternoon David, blushing I make a confession: my knowledge of bonding in phosphorus was outdated. Prompted by Milton I checked some literature and found that the idea of bonding by d-orbitals is outdated. I should have known this because I know Kutzelnigg (who discovered this) quite well and have heard him speak zillions of times. But I was never much interested in second row atoms and didn't pay attention. I added a paragraph, and let the old part still intact, maybe it looks silly now, have a look and give your honest opinion. --Paul Wormer 08:52, 27 February 2008 (CST)

David, I see that you left both explanations of difference in bonding between nitrogen and phosphorus intact. Don't you think that the old-fashioned explanation, based on d-orbitals, should go?--Paul Wormer 02:31, 28 February 2008 (CST)


That's Life!

David, see my rply: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User_talk:Anthony.Sebastian#That.27s_Life.21 --Anthony.Sebastian 14:43, 29 February 2008 (CST)


NMR

Hi David, this article needs your attention. Thanks, D. Matt Innis 19:34, 29 February 2008 (CST).

Approval of Phosphorus article

David, I believe that last week we agreed that I would start the Approval process for the Phosphorus article after you finished reviewing the article yourself. Please let me know whether you did in fact finish your review and I will then proceed. Thanks, Milton Beychok 12:54, 3 March 2008 (CST)

I have started the Approval process of Phosphorus as of a few minutes ago. Milton Beychok 13:39, 3 March 2008 (CST)


DrugBank template

See use of new DrugBank template in development at acetaminophen. - Robert Badgett 07:48, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Your proposal to create workgroup style guides

Hello. No driver is listed in the proposal record for "Create workgroup style guides" which you started. Every proposal must have a driver, a champion who is filling in the details of the proposal and driving it along. Do consider becoming the driver yourself; don't be worried that this is hard as I will help you at every step if necessary. If you find a driver, please make sure that the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/New is updated. If no driver can be found within three days, then the proposal becomes inactive. Your newly-appointed Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 09:43, 6 March 2008 (CST)

David, I want to work with you on this proposal. --Robert W King 11:44, 6 March 2008 (CST)

This is the day that Phosphorus is supposed to be approved.

David: What else needs to be done, if anything, to finish the approval process? No one other than myself has yet signed the nomination on the Metadata template, although I thought you said that you and Paul Wormer could do so. Regards, Milton Beychok 10:58, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

David, I note that you and Paul have now signed the nomination. Is there anything else that I have to do? I must leave in the next hour for the rest of the day and would like to know before I leave. Thanks, Milton Beychok 12:18, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
Milton, you have nothing further to do. A constable with taken of the rest. Thanks. David E. Volk 12:29, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Links to categories

You can have a link to Category:Articles to Approve, without adding the page the link is in (e.g. your user page) to the category with this: "[[:Category:Articles to Approve]]", which produces this: Category:Articles to Approve. (Note the leading :.) Hope that's useful... J. Noel Chiappa 11:33, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Thank you very much Noel. David E. Volk 11:38, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Life ver 1.2 Approved!

Congratulations! Thanks for your help, --D. Matt Innis 22:19, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Phosphorus Approved!

Two in a row! I think chemistry could be on a roll ;-) --D. Matt Innis 22:51, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

EZarticle-closed-auto

Warren Schudy 22:08, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

I created the Category:Eduzendium articles just as a way to keep them separate from policy and course pages. It does not have to be that way. I just thought it might be more convenient. I might add that they were originally in Category:Eduzendium. The workgroup category would definitely be more appropriate, I didn't know that existed. Chris Day (talk) 22:10, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
I am just trying to clear the unchecklisted articles page. First there was EZarticle, then EZarticle-closed-auto, and before that some of them had what appeared to be hand-written warnings not to edit. We need whoever is in charge of EZ to tell the people what to put on their pages, and then we wouldn't need to do it. It seems EZarticle-closed-auto provides the best warning flag, so I have been putting that on the pages that I seem to think needs it.
As for the page in question, I thought all EZ pages were closed so that only the students work on it. I might be mistaken. David E. Volk 08:03, 12 March 2008 (CDT)

Help with approval nomination for Chemical engineering

David, I'm looking for someone to nominate the Chemical engineering article for approval. Can you help me? Milton Beychok 23:08, 12 March 2008 (CDT)

Milton, I have made suggestions for improvement before approval, on the talk page. Please reply when you have fixed these small errors. David E. Volk 10:04, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
David, I agree with all of your comments on the Talk page of the Chemical engineering article and I have made the appropriate changes. Thanks for your help. Milton Beychok 10:58, 13 March 2008 (CDT)
Thanks for starting the process, David. Could you perhaps ask Paul Wormer to second the nomination? Or someone else? Milton Beychok 15:09, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

Disambiguation

I was going to suggest we have a disambiguation template (a la Wikipedia) which both did a standard notice, and put the page in a category); sigh, that's on my (lengthy) to-do list. You wanna deal with it? :-) J. Noel Chiappa 14:34, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

I haven't made any templates yet, but if I attempt one, it will be the chem_info template that needs to be made, something like the elem_infobox template, except for chemicals. David E. Volk 14:37, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
Oh, they're not too hard (at least, the simpler ones), and help is a click away. Anyway, it turns out that {{disambig}} already exists; we just need to get people to stick it on the bottom of all disambig pages. J. Noel Chiappa 16:07, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
PS: Might have been best not to checklist that duplicate Neanderthal article, in case the one gets turned into just a redir. Oh well, water, bridges... J. Noel Chiappa 16:07, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

So, should we used category disambig or the template disambig, or both?

As for the neanderthal stuff, I assume the professor(s) will give priority to whoever signed up first. They can still do the work, get the grade, and we can merge them later perhaps? I just wanted to make the students aware, and I notified the EZ coordinator as well. David E. Volk 16:11, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

Ah, {{disambig}} adds pages to the category automatically. I guess it's OK to use just the category, as long as at least one gets used. I'll ask people what they think when I have time... J. Noel Chiappa 22:25, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

WP articles

You are right, I'm re-writing them all from scratch, as I haven't had the time to edit them. I won't be able to edit them for a while though, as my schedule is tight. I apologise for the trouble. Btw, silly question, is it proper to reply to a comment in one's own talk page or the other way around? I've never really used talk pages as all my editing in wikipedia used to be anonymous. Minhaj Ahmed Khan Lodi 10:42, 15 March 2008 (CDT)

talk page

Thanks for your suggestion! Minhaj Ahmed Khan Lodi 13:23, 15 March 2008 (CDT)

Need your advice

David, I would like to add some internal CZ links into the [[Chemical engineering article]]. For example, links on: fossil fuel power palnt, nuclear power plant, petrochemical, etc. If I do so, can you then update the approval version? Or will you need to extend the closing date? I will not do anything until I hear back from you. Milton Beychok 13:22, 17 March 2008 (CDT)

David, thanks for your explanation on my Talk page. I have now added quite a few CZ links, and you can change the version url whenever you have the time. Milton Beychok 16:38, 17 March 2008 (CDT)

Your proposal "Medical Disclaimers"

Hello. The proposal record for "Medical Disclaimers", for which you are listed as driver, says that the current step (1 week discussion amongst health science workgroup) was due to be completed 16 March. Could you please update the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/Editorial Council, changing your self-imposed deadline and perhaps the next step? If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask me. -- The Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 17:02, 19 March 2008 (CDT)

AE

You might be right, it might be worth having it as the default and then people can change it. I can take it off the to do list if every article is listed becuase of that one empty field. Chris Day (talk) 09:09, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

Chembox

Have you seen the following? Template:Chem_Infobox, Robert King adapted it for CZ. You might find it a good starting point? Chris Day (talk) 14:48, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

Chris, we renamed that one Elem_Infobox, because it only fits chemical elements, not molecules. We need another infobox, formatted differently, for molecules. David E. Volk 14:50, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
OK just checking to see if you had seen it. I now note you edited it today. by the way, is there anyway to fix the right margin? On my browser it is bleeding off the right edge. Chris Day (talk) 14:54, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
What happened? --Robert W King 15:58, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

Testing Roberts chem infobox new

(CC) Image: David E. Volk
Itraconazole, a triazole-based antifungal agent.
itraconazole
IUPAC name: see chemistry section
Synonyms: itraconazol, itraconazolum
Formula: C35H38Cl2N8O4
 Uses: antifungal drug
 Properties: triazole compound, big, aromatic, oxazole, imidazole
 Hazards: see drug interactions
Mass (g/mol): CAS #:
705.6334 84625-61-6


Should we change "Mass" to "Mass (g/mol)" in the table, so the user doesn't need to type the units all the time? That is the standard unit for molecular mass. David E. Volk 16:36, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

You da man Robert

Robert, I think it looks very nice. We will probably want to show the name in bold lettering. Do we do that when setting the variable (name = itraconazole), or can the template make it always be bold? Should we make the IUPAC name an if exist variable, or use my example of "see chemistry section"?. David E. Volk 16:01, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

I can make it bold. The problem with the IUPAC name is it has all these [s in it, which jacks up the formatting, but I think I can fix it. --Robert W King 16:04, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
Regarding the IUPAC name, I wouldn't mind listing it in the text when it is a very long name. I think we had agreed earlier that this is about the right amount of information for the box, leaving out boiling points and other such non-sense. Now I have about 100 articles to add the template to! I think I will wait for a few days so we can consider any other desired changes before I make that plunge. Thanks for you effort, and do consider making it an example on the How To page. I think template is a great example for beginners. David E. Volk 16:09, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
Give it a whirl for a while, let me know if anything needs fixing or adjusting. --Robert W King 16:32, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
It's in there. Automatically puts g/mol. --Robert W King 16:41, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
OK, I am going to step away from it for about a day, then look with fresh eyes for areas to improve. If you don't mind, I may play with the whole coloring scheme. Great job. David E. Volk 16:50, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

Will Chemical engineering be automatically approved today?

David, today is March 21st. Will the article be automatically approved today or does something yet have to be done? Milton Beychok 12:14, 21 March 2008 (CDT)


Chemical Engineering approved! - Sorry for the delay - holiday and all ;-) --D. Matt Innis 15:45, 23 March 2008 (CDT)


Workgroup link???

You can get to them from the main page. Click on the icons at top right. Chris Day 15:26, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

Thanks Chris, I do know other ways to the workgroups. It really was a sarcastic-whining remark, because everytime I get used to where things are some of them disappear, and then we need to rewrite things like the CZ:How To page directing people how to find editors in their workgroups. David E. Volk 16:12, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

I guessed it was sarcasm. I agree the left border is like a yoyo. I like its current form as "what links here" is not way down at the bottom. But no doubt it will be down there again soon. :) Chris Day 16:15, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

Re Rottweiler

In a dreadful hurry, I'm afraid. Answered at my talk page. Thanks! Aleta Curry 16:24, 28 March 2008 (CDT)

That template

Try and start a new cluster with a metadata page and see if it is better now. i added some links to make it easier for you to get the new pages created. Chris Day 16:38, 28 March 2008 (CDT)

All I can see is, Sa-Wheeeet! Exactly what I wanted to see. David E. Volk 17:36, 28 March 2008 (CDT)

Health Sciences style guide

Are you working on a Health Sciences style guide? Jitse Niesen suggested that the Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles be incorporated into that. - Bob - Robert Badgett 08:26, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

I have not started a Health Sciences style guide, and I am probably not the best person to do so. It would be best for Robert Badgett to start that guide, and I could add my 2 cents later, particularly added reference to the Chemistry style guide for articles about drugs. I left him a note on his talk page a few minutes ago about this. David E. Volk 08:40, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

Rottweiler

Hi David,

There have been some changes made, per your suggestions. The only thing I haven't addressed is your suggestion re photos (number 2?) which I didn't quite understand. Aleta Curry 04:42, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the nomination. We'll get those approvals numbers up! Aleta Curry 17:06, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

Docosahexaenoic Acid

Hello Dr. Volk, I am currently creating a page for a University of Colorado Project.

I want to use a 3D image of Docosahexaenoic acid for my article, and was wondering if you had any images that I could use?

Thanks for any help! --Brian R. Head 11:15, 3 April 2008 (CDT)

Yes it is also called DHA. Thanks for offering to make one, i didn't intend for it to be so time consuming. I thought you may have an image just kicking around on the hard drive, however, I would certainly be very interested in anything you could make or find. Thank you! --Brian R. Head 22:01, 4 April 2008 (CDT)

Oh and a 2D model will work fine --Brian R. Head 22:02, 4 April 2008 (CDT)

Thank you for the picture! It is perfect for the page. Many, many thanks! --Brian R. Head 11:42, 8 April 2008 (CDT)

Let me know of any others you might need. David E. Volk 11:49, 8 April 2008 (CDT)

System people

As far as I can tell, we don't have any! I've left messages on the talk: pages of several people who seemed to be involved with setting things up, and no reply.

I'll add the welcome message to his page manually. J. Noel Chiappa 15:47, 7 April 2008 (CDT)

PS: His account was created a while ago, which is perhaps why his talk: page wasn't automatically created and given the welcome header. J. Noel Chiappa 16:58, 7 April 2008 (CDT)

Just plain "Noel"

Just "Noel" is fine. I'm one of those people who uses their middle name... I only put the "J." part in there because I'm known somewhat by my initials, JNC (which were a common way of identifying people in the early 'hacker' - the real ones, not the juvenile cyber-delinquents who appropriated the name for themselves), so I wanted to keep the opening initial there. J. Noel Chiappa 09:41, 8 April 2008 (CDT)

Efficiency?

It might be more efficient to only update CZ:Unchecklisted Articles‎ every 3-4 articles? J. Noel Chiappa 13:05, 12 April 2008 (CDT)

To each their own! :-) J. Noel Chiappa 13:22, 12 April 2008 (CDT)

Subpagination

Setting aside all that stuff about 'see also', thanks for your involvement on those Japan. I would've done the subpagination myself but it would've taken me ages. John Stephenson 04:49, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

Can you help improve Image:FCC Chemistry.png

David, some time ago you left a message on my talk page offering to help me create chemical equation images when I needed some.

I have just created and uploaded Image:FCC Chemistry.png. You can view it in my sandbox at User:Milton Beychok/Sandbox. I would very much appreciate it if you could improve upon it to make it more "eye catching". Also it is now 426 pixels wide. It would be nice if it could be reduced to a width of about 325 to 350 pixels and still maintain legibility.

Basically, the image hopefully explains the chemistry involved in a Fluid Catalytic Cracker (FCC) as used in petroleum refineries. The idea behind the image is to very simply illustrate that an FCC unit cracks long chain hydrocarbons into more valuable smaller chain molecules.

Want to give it a try? Thanks, - Milton Beychok 10:46, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

David, I would really appreciate your letting me know whether or not you can help with Image:FCC Chemistry.png so that I can proceed accordingly. Thanks, _ Milton Beychok 00:56, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

ABC

That's a good question/point, actually. I don't know every place that metadata field gets used (you'd have to check with Chris on that), or where we might use it in the future, but the one place I know it is used is in adding articles to workgroup categories, to get them to show up properly alphabetized in the category listings. See, e.g. Category:History Workgroup, and notice the listing under "A" for Dean Acheson. However, the link you see on that page is to the article title, not the ABC name, so I don't think it will make a difference what case the ABC is in. I say 'think' because if category sorting respects case, so that "foo" comes well before "Foo" (or vice versa) it might make a difference - but of course we might not like that result. I just tried a test, and it doesn't seem to make a difference, though? We might find some other use for it in the future which does retain the case, so it might be worth adopting that 'natural' case rule for the abc - and maybe for the pagename, too. Why don't you bring these points up on the forum?

It's "Noel", by the way. J. Noel Chiappa 12:30, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

As far as I know, remember, the abc field it is only used to organise the articles in the various categories. Chris Day 12:32, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

Article specific subpages

Check out cadmium and the Cadmium/MSDS subpage. The subpage is created by using tab1=MSDS in the metadata. We could also add tab2=Isotopes and one other tab3=?. This might be more intuitive than having all the chemical information in a Catalog subpage (which is where this imformation used to live). I tweeked the {{Elem Infobox}} so the headers now link to the MSDS subpage too. I plan to write this up as a proposal so we can get approval from the editorial council (use of tab field to customise the subpages for specific articles). I would be intereasted to get your feedback before I start on this proposal. Chris Day 15:50, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

Physical Properties Templates

Hi David,

I posted this on Talk:Cadmium, but wanted to get some feedback from Chem Editors so figured I'd just ask...

I had this kooky idea of trying to store materials physical properties data in templates so we can call it up from multiple locations and keep it current. That way we can do things like this: 

Selected Electronegativities:<br />
{{Selected Electronegativities|Hydrogen|Beryllium|Iron|Helium|Uranium|Neptunium|Lead}}

Selected Electronegativities:
Template:Selected Electronegativities

and... 

Selected Melting Points:<br />
{{Selected melting points|Hydrogen|Beryllium|Iron|Helium|Uranium|Neptunium|Lead|Cobalt(II) oxide}}

Selected Melting Points:
Template:Selected melting points


and also.... 

{{Resizable Periodic Table of Elements
|cellWidth=50px
|cellHeight=67px
|colorscheme=Metal
}}
Hydrogen/ †
H
†
† †
†
Helium/ †
He
†
† †
†
Lithium/ †
Li
†
† †
†
Beryllium/ †
Be
†
† †
†
Boron/ †
B
†
† †
†
Carbon/ †
C
†
† †
†
Nitrogen/ †
N
†
† †
†
Oxygen/ †
O
†
† †
†
Fluorine/ †
F
†
† †
†
Neon/ †
Ne
†
† †
†
Sodium/ †
Na
†
† †
†
Magnesium/ †
Mg
†
† †
†
Aluminium/ †
Al
†
† †
†
Silicon/ †
Si
†
† †
†
Phosphorus/ †
P
†
† †
†
Sulphur/ †
S
†
† †
†
Chlorine/ †
Cl
†
† †
†
Argon/ †
Ar
†
† †
†
Potassium/ †
K
†
† †
†
Calcium/ †
Ca
†
† †
†
Scandium/ †
Sc
†
† †
†
Titanium/ †
Ti
†
† †
†
Vanadium/ †
V
†
† †
†
Chromium/ †
Cr
†
† †
†
Manganese/ †
Mn
†
† †
†
Iron/ †
Fe
†
† †
†
Cobalt/ †
Co
†
† †
†
Nickel/ †
Ni
†
† †
†
Copper/ †
Cu
†
† †
†
Zinc/ †
Zn
†
† †
†
Gallium/ †
Ga
†
† †
†
Germanium/ †
Ge
†
† †
†
Arsenic/ †
As
†
† †
†
Selenium/ †
Se
†
† †
†
Bromine/ †
Br
†
† †
†
Krypton/ †
Kr
†
† †
†
Rubidium/ †
Rb
†
† †
†
Strontium/ †
Sr
†
† †
†
Yttrium/ †
Y
†
† †
†
Zirconium/ †
Zr
†
† †
†
Niobium/ †
Nb
†
† †
†
Molybdenum/ †
Mo
†
† †
†
Technetium/ †
Tc
†
† †
†
Ruthenium/ †
Ru
†
† †
†
Rhodium/ †
Rh
†
† †
†
Palladium/ †
Pd
†
† †
†
Silver/ †
Ag
†
† †
†
Cadmium/ †
Cd
†
† †
†
Indium/ †
In
†
† †
†
Tin/ †
Sn
†
† †
†
Antimony/ †
Sb
†
† †
†
Tellurium/ †
Te
†
† †
†
Iodine/ †
I
†
† †
†
Xenon/ †
Xe
†
† †
†
Caesium/ †
Cs
†
† †
†
Barium/ †
Ba
†
† †
†
Hafnium/ †
Hf
†
† †
†
Tantalum/ †
Ta
†
† †
†
Tungsten/ †
W
†
† †
†
Rhenium/ †
Re
†
† †
†
Osmium/ †
Os
†
† †
†
Iridium/ †
Ir
†
† †
†
Platinum/ †
Pt
†
† †
†
Gold/ †
Au
†
† †
†
Mercury (element)/ †
Hg
†
† †
†
Thallium/ †
Tl
†
† †
†
Lead/ †
Pb
†
† †
†
Bismuth/ †
Bi
†
† †
†
Polonium/ †
Po
†
† †
†
Astatine/ †
At
†
† †
†
Radon/ †
Rn
†
† †
†
Francium/ †
Fr
†
† †
†
Radium/ †
Ra
†
† †
†
Rutherfordium/ †
Rf
†
† †
†
Dubnium/ †
Db
†
† †
†
Seaborgium/ †
Sg
†
† †
†
Bohrium/ †
Bh
†
† †
†
Hassium/ †
Hs
†
† †
†
Meitnerium/ †
Mt
†
† †
†
Darmstadtium/ †
Ds
†
† †
†
Roentgenium/ †
Rg
†
† †
†
Copernicium/ †
Cn
†
† †
†
 
Lanthanum/ †
La
†
† †
†
Cerium/ †
Ce
†
† †
†
Praseodymium/ †
Pr
†
† †
†
Neodymium/ †
Nd
†
† †
†
Promethium/ †
Pm
†
† †
†
Samarium/ †
Sm
†
† †
†
Europium/ †
Eu
†
† †
†
Gadolinium/ †
Gd
†
† †
†
Terbium/ †
Tb
†
† †
†
Dysprosium/ †
Dy
†
† †
†
Holmium/ †
Ho
†
† †
†
Erbium/ †
Er
†
† †
†
Thulium/ †
Tm
†
† †
†
Ytterbium/ †
Yb
†
† †
†
Lutetium/ †
Lu
†
† †
†
Actinium/ †
Ac
†
† †
†
Thorium/ †
Th
†
† †
†
Protactinium/ †
Pa
†
† †
†
Uranium/ †
U
†
† †
†
Neptunium/ †
Np
†
† †
†
Plutonium/ †
Pu
†
† †
†
Americium/ †
Am
†
† †
†
Curium/ †
Cm
†
† †
†
Berkelium/ †
Bk
†
† †
†
Californium/ †
Cf
†
† †
†
Einsteinium/ †
Es
†
† †
†
Fermium/ †
Fm
†
† †
†
Mendelevium/ †
Md
†
† †
†
Nobelium/ †
No
†
† †
†
Lawrencium/ †
Lr
†
† †
†

...pretty easily.

Also, I've started the {{Physical properties}} template to display the info in the articles (please see Lead or Cadmium/MSDS for examples). I have (I believe) left open the option of using the system for any material, not just the chemical elements. Any objections? Reasons it won't work? Things I should change? Feedback is welcome....--David Yamakuchi 10:23, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

They all seem like a good idea to me. Be sure to add sections to the Chemistry style guide when you have the templates finished or at least working pretty well. David E. Volk 11:00, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for nominating Amine gas treating for approval

Dave, thanks very much. I have responded to both of your requests for minor revisions on the talk page of Amine gas treating and made the appropriate revisions. - Milton Beychok 15:48, 28 April 2008 (CDT)

IUPAC name

What exactly is the IUPAC? How are their notations derived for chemical names? Is that the real "name" of the chemical? What does it describe? Is there any way we can change the notation or make a "shorthand" version of it that still means the same thing? --Robert W King 13:24, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

There is no way to shorten the name. It is the official chemical name of any chemical, although for drugs
there is also the International Nonproprietary Name (INN) determined by the WHO. For all chemicals, there
are only two things that completely determine what it is, the chemical structure (with stereo-chemistry shown)
and the IUPAC name. Things like (7S,8R) depict stereochemistry of the atoms.

The IUPAC names were devised to be systematic and worldwide, and get around the problem of too many common names, in different countries, for exactly the same thing. For example, the British call acetaminophen (Tylenol®) by paracetemol (spelling?), but the IUPAC name works everywhere. Perhaps we should write the IUPAC in smaller, but bold font? I could live with the information being only in the chemistry section, but I doubt if all would agree to this. David E. Volk 13:38, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

Bollocks. Let me drop it down a few points in size. Can you tell me more about the structure of the name; what do the hyphens mean, the commas... the syntax. I want to get an idea of what could be allowed to be the "word-wrap point" so we don't display an incorrect or innaccurate name and still be able to make it fit. --Robert W King 13:41, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

You should be able to wrap text at any dash, comma or bracket I suppose, but to look nice, we might split only on dashes and commas. Can we make the template automatically wrap the nowiki comments to the variable so we don't need to type it each time? It's not a big deal either way, but it would save a little time perhaps. (My gut feeling is that it wouldn't work) David E. Volk 13:50, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

what are the divisions for each IUPAC name? Let me draw a parallel for what I'm asking: if you take the number "4,326,571" the 4 is in the millions place, the 3 in the hundred-thousands, 2 in the ten-thousands, etc. Is the IUPAC naming convention anything like this where parts of the name are segmented for a reason? --Robert W King 14:12, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

Of course the name is segmented, but you will not be able to write a generic script to split by that. My only suggestion is that it would be best to wrap text at the dashes.

Example

If you want a very difficult example, look at Cefazedone:

IUPAc = (6R,7R)-7-(((3,5-dichloro-4-oxo-1(4H)-pyridinyl) acetyl) amino)-3-(((5-methyl-1,3,4- thiadiazol- 2-yl)thio) methyl)-8 -oxo-5-thia-1-azabicyclo(4.2.0)oct-2-ene-2-carboxylic acid


Cefazedone
  • 1) The (6R,7R) part indicates the stereochemistry (the two black wedge bonds)
  • 2) Then at position 7 (of the bicyclo center) (lower right of four membered ring, is attached the following:
  • 2b) 3,5-dichloro-4-oxo-pyridinyl attached to the 1 position of acetylamino (O=C-NH2)
  • 3) Then at the 3-position (of the bicyclo center) is attached the five membered ring 5-methyl-1,3,4-thiadiazol via a thiomethyl.
  • 4) At the 8 position of the bicyclo system is the carbonyl oxygen
  • 5) finally, the 5-thia-1-azabicyclo[4.2.0]oct-2-ene-2-carboxyl acid explains the attachment of the central bicyclo system. 5-thia = the sulfur in the six-membered ring, and the 1-aza refers to the nitrogen, and the 4.2.0 explains how the rings are formed. It is formed from 2-octene (oct-2-ene), ie a double bond between carbons 2 & 3, and also there is a carboxylic acid added at position 2, at the top of the structure.

Well, you asked for it!!! David E. Volk 14:23, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

Let me propose this then: If we come up with variables for "stereochemistry", and then a series of "positions", and wrap at each point, would that make logical sense? --Robert W King 14:32, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
Variables are really only appropriate for steroids, cholesterols and bile salt, and perhaps a few other classes of chemical that I am not aware of. Really, your best bet is to break on dashes automatically, or if it comes out unwieldy, chemists perhaps could manually break it with break commands. David E. Volk 14:35, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
Let me mull it over for a day or two, and I'll see what I can come up with. Thank you for so much information! --Robert W King 14:39, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the welcome

I haven't yet found the list of groups for which I'm registered for editing, but, on looking on your page, I was reminded I was once a microbial biochemist with an interest in antibiotic resistance. It is untrue that the periodic table, at the time, consisted of Earth, Air, Fire and Water. No, it had Musashi's extensions; the Void was the fifth element.

Anyway, while I don't really stay current on the molecular level of antibiotics, I've still stayed involved in expert systems for prescribers, and have been looking at root cause analysis for nosocomial infections. If these are useful interests, let me know.

I also see some colleagues from Internet engineering, so I should be finding some collaborators soon. On Wikipedia, I gave up on trying to explain network architecture. It wasn't so bad when I was lectured that the RFCs I cited were wrong about OSI conformance, or even when I cited the more extensive ISO specifications for the migration of that model. Things came to a breaking point when I was told that someone's textbook differed with my peer-reviewed work, and clearly, the latter had to be wrong.

Intelligence and special operations are also a special interest, and I'll need to learn the associated groups here. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:41, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

By field

You asked why is it missing. This is because it is now obsolete and is no longer part of the pre-loaded information when a new metadata page is created. See the discussion here. Good job on getting torugh the unchecklisted articles! I've done a few (very few) and its a grind. Chris Day 00:29, 6 May 2008 (CDT)

Unchecklisted

Hi! could you point out what entries were repeated so that I could see what happens? Thanks in advance Aleksander Stos 03:58, 6 May 2008 (CDT)

Thanks, I'll look into it (some delay may be expected as I'm dealing with the general stats now). BTW, I've updated the list in question. Aleksander Stos 09:55, 6 May 2008 (CDT)

Townes Van Zandt

David, thanks for the Townes Van Zandt lyrics. Some of those songs you listed are among my favorites but I didn't know he had written them! I guess we non-musicians tend to associate the song with its most famous performer and don't ever find out who the author was. Bruce M.Tindall 12:50, 7 May 2008 (CDT)

Would appreciate your looking at Fluid catalytic cracking

David, if you have the time, I would very much appreciate your reading Fluid catalytic cracking and letting me have your comments. Thanks in advance, - Milton Beychok 02:38, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

Your approval of Amine gas treating

Matt Innis left a note on the Amine gas treating saying that the Approval version had to be updated because some minor edits had been made since you nominated it for approval. So I updated the Approval version to the current version. Now, Matt tells me that the updating should have been done by you because you were the nominating editor ... and he needs to have you agree that the updating which I did is okay by you. Would you please let him know as soon as possible? Today is the day that the approval process is supposed to be completed on that article. Thanks a bunch, - Milton Beychok 13:55, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

David, I cannot remember if I thanked you for nominating Amine gas treating and Merox for approval ... so if this is the second time, please excuse me. Thanks very much, - Milton Beychok

Converting Proposals to EC Resolutions

As per CZ:Editorial_Council_Rules_of_Procedure and specifically, CZ:Editorial_Council_Resolution_Guidelines one may have a look at the list of EC members: and request one of them to take it forward. However, since you are the Driver for the Proposals, you can sponsor the relevant resolution. You may use the Editorial Council Resolution 0009 or the Editorial Council Resolution 0010 as the templates. Once it is put as an initial proposal, you may ask for 2 Co-sponsors through the CZ EC mailing list. Hope this satisfies your queries. Supten Sarbadhikari 22:05, 14 May 2008 (CDT)

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