Citizendium - a community developing a quality, comprehensive compendium of knowledge, online and free.
Click here to join and contribute
CZ thanks our previous donors. Donate here. Treasurer's Financial Report

User talk:Hayford Peirce/Archive 3

From Citizendium
Jump to: navigation, search

lit. articles

I've been thinking that I'd like to write a couple of articles on some famous short stories (Poe, O. Henry, etc.) but I don't think I know how to go about writing a good article on a piece of literature. What do I include? What do I not include? Is a synopsis more important or a discussion of the work's broader impact? I thought you might have some insights; any suggestions would be much appreciated. --Joe Quick 00:13, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Hey, thanks! I'm not sure when I'll get to any of these, but your suggestions give me a great place to start. --Joe Quick 21:08, 7 January 2008 (CST)


Thanks, same to you - I'm feeling better tonight, ready for some booze! Ro Thorpe 17:40, 8 January 2008 (CST)

Party! You're invited!

Hayford! Where are you? You're missing the shennanigans! Aleta Curry 17:17, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Portuguese pork stew with clams

Hello Hayford. What happened with this article? I merely corrected the Portuguese part (it's com and the word amêijoas has an accent), but now it's asking for a metadata template to be created. Can you fix it? --José Leonardo Andrade 10:15, 11 January 2008 (CST)

The metadata page didn't get moved. --Robert W King 10:22, 11 January 2008 (CST)

Toss out the ol' 41!

Hayford, that EB 41 is no good! ;D --Robert W King 20:30, 13 January 2008 (CST)

  1. Toss them out the window into a trash can strategically placed below.
  2. Make 12 trips up and down carrying 2 volumes
  3. Burn them in the fireplace
--Robert W King 09:53, 14 January 2008 (CST)

Raymond Chandler

Dear Hayford, I prepared this stub to help along the new contributor (who wrote about Philip Marlowe). Apparently she doesn't to do it for whatever reasons. Could you write more about R.C.? I ask you because you seem to be interested and I feel that R.C. deserves a longer article and I don't think that I myself could do a good enough job. Thank you. --Paul Wormer 06:56, 16 January 2008 (CST)


Thanks for that. Now what was that (very short?) Ogden Nash poem I used to know... Ro Thorpe 17:04, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Yes, it was Dorothy Parker on the glasses, and Nash’s response to it, which I had never seen before, is in the WP article. I think if you read that again, you’ll agree he does merit a mention under Wordplay - Ro Thorpe 18:13, 16 January 2008 (CST)

Sports Medal Table formatting

I have just completed the formatting for a table of medalists in a sports contest:

The sample at the top is for Olympic Games cycling time trial for women. Would you please take a look at the table and share any comments, suggested changes, etc? There will likely be over a thousand such tables and before we start putting them up all over the place, it might be nice to get it right! Soon enough, a template should be built for the table format.

James F. Perry 11:35, 26 January 2008 (CST)

Party! You're invited!Hayford!

Don't forget, Hayford! CZ:Monthly write-a-thon Be there or be square. Aleta Curry 22:10, 5 February 2008 (CST)

Er... mais oui -

- but Maigret was French, wasn't he? (Rupert Davies on the BBC in my youth.) Ro Thorpe 11:59, 9 February 2008 (CST)


Many of the financial articles are being written under the Eduzendium initiative, so let's not apply the stun gun right away ;) --Robert W King 11:40, 10 February 2008 (CST)

CZ International

Hi! I’m just letting people who have expressed an interest in CZ International know that there is now a proposal on the table.

Please discuss its feasibility at: CZ:Proposals/Internationalisation sandbox in the Discussion area.

Feel free to help develop the proposal, as well.

We'll also need "drivers".

If you've got no idea what I'm talking about, please refer to: CZ:Proposals/New and CZ:Proposals

Aleta Curry 18:14, 14 February 2008 (CST)

Vanished contribution

Zut alors, it appears I saved an out-of-date version. Pardonnez-moi, monsieur. I had just read it actually, and thought you had raised an interesting point - & agreed that the usual names are the best for Madonna et al regardless - Ro Thorpe 18:27, 14 February 2008 (CST) - & the original names, which was your point. There is an exception floating just out of my memory's reach, from the distant past, where a person succeeded in having a slightly modified name accepted after some time, from informal version to formal; I think it was...yes, got it, an English DJ, changed from Pete to Peter, I wonder what WP has for him... Ro Thorpe 18:37, 14 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks! and Subpages

Hi Hayford--thanks for catching that pesky 'the' in the article title. I ought to have caught that whilst cleaning up unchecklisted articles, but must have been on automaton mode; happens when I do this for too long.

Am trying to figure out what's happened to the subpage thing--you've added the subpages tag to the template / template talk, and so far I can't work out how to revert that--will try deleting the subpage tag and fingers crossed it'll work.

Just wanted to let you know that I do appreciate your article naming catch! Thanks. Louise Valmoria 09:37, 17 February 2008 (CST)


Hi Hayford, as the Co-driver and originator of the proposal (CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy), please go through CZ:Recipes page and once you feel it is more or less complete, we can go ahead for putting it up as a formal proposal. Supten Sarbadhikari 23:34, 21 February 2008 (CST)


Hayford, I respect you too much to get in a fight. But CZ has a naming standard -- and it differs from Wikipedia (which gets all screwed up and gets names wrong, like Winston Churchill, who they for years call Spencer-Churchill). Thanks for pointing the Reagan entry; it was copied from Wikipedia without getting fixed, and probably we have other little errors that need fixing too. Richard Jensen 19:19, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Boston Red Sox

You know what? Have fun with it. Considering this place is basically just Wikipedia with a different name, it's not like you're going to add anything to it anyway unless you get more websites you want to link spam with like that one you put on before. CZ isn't worth wasting time with. I might use this site for a place to collect my thoughts on New Hampshire politics and law, but otherwise, have fun with the internet drama and thank you for helping me refocus. Andrew Sylvia 20:56, 26 February 2008 (CST)

Gresham's Law

I've come across your comment in Talk:Wikipedia. Would you like me to put it in? If so, please suggest where. Rôt Reaux 09:34, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Fine. I'll do that after dinner... Ro Veau 13:28, 27 February 2008 (CST)


Boy them lobbers look good! :-) Stephen Ewen 18:32, 27 February 2008 (CST)

I'm considering writing an article about Lobster souffle a la Plaza-Athenee, one of the great classical dishes. I've got some pix I took last fall when a Kutie and I made it for ourselves. Talk about work! But talk about goodness! Wow! Hayford Peirce 20:00, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Your Important!

I gave you your own TI page! TI:Hayford Peirce see CZ:Topic Informant Workgroup.. D. Matt Innis 20:19, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Recipes again

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Next_steps.3F. Supten Sarbadhikari 23:33, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Too much of anything is bad...

So what was the original quote about, wine? I've tried googling it, honest, guv.

I like the lobster picture, by the way. You look like an American tennis player from the 1950s... Ro Thorpe 18:19, 28 February 2008 (CST)

Of course 'twas whiskey

That's bourbon as opposed to scotch, which is whisky, of course.

Sure and beghorra! In one of Twain's books, Innocents Abroad, I imagine, he has a *long* two-page list, or some such, of all the disgusting, effete European food he was forced to eat, such as frog legs, crepes, tiny tenderloins, etc. etc. He then has a *three*-page list of wonderful American food that he can't wait to get back to, such as apple pie and 2-inch-thick porterhouses. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have "whisky" in there as opposed to honest "whiskey"....
Yes, bourbon is better, but alas in the distant days when I used to drink whisky I never saw it here.
  • I grew up drinking scotch, moved to bourbon for a couple of years as a late teen, then decided it was too sweet, moved on to gin-tonic, vodka-tonic, then back to scotch. And, these days, lotsa rum drinks, although I have to ration myself with them -- they're *so* good and *so* fattening!

I remember those shirts with the Perry logo: my parents wore them - they may even have bought me one...but whether with the pedigree stitches I cannot say...

I think they stitched them well into the 60s -- the damn crocodile was just glued on. Probably the inflation of the 70s forced them to cheapen things....
That figures.

You & Bob Lutz would have been a right pair of thumpers (my Rosewall-loving mother's derogatory word)!

Hey, that's a good word, and an apt one. We *were* a pair of thumpers! The difference between us is that Bobbie had better hand-eye, so he could hit the running backhand down the line consistently, whereas with me it was always luck if it went in. And when he thumped it in general, it went in more often than my shots did. And he had a lot more foot speed, which, of course, in tennis makes up for lots of defects.... On the other hand, I was smarter, hehe....
That reminds me to answer her letter - easy to forget the paper stuff these days. I'm glad you find it apt. Newcombe & Roche, Graebner, Tanner... Did you use to take several hours to effectuate the delivery, as was the style?
  • You mean, did we bounce the freakin' ball a gazillion times and stall and walk around and towel off? Crikey, no! In those days "play is continuous, gentlemen." No one stalled, or at least very few did. It was Connors and/or Lendl who started that baloney about bouncing the ball. In the old days you'd go watch the pros and there would be two 5-set matches, plus 3-sets of doubles. And that was just an evening's tennis....
Indeed I was being carelessly anachronistic: that only started in the mid sixties, well after Laver turned pro.

- Oh, and I got Joan Baez, whom you mentioned, into the singer-songwriters article, but she'll have to wait for the Dylan one to make room...- Ro Thorpe 12:15, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Great! I was wondering if I could stick her in somewhere, but in such a short article I felt it would be out of place until it was expanded. Also, I was wondering: does one *have* a "huge impact" by "switching to etc." Doesn't sound quite right to my ear, but I could easily be wrong.... Hayford Peirce 13:24, 29 February 2008 (CST)
Well, you'll have read my comment by now. If you think she's worth putting back in...? The 'huge impact' may be Brit journalese...
  • Naw, I wouldn't put her back in without a lot more backup knowledge about what she actually *did* write, and when. And, I gather, B.D. going electronic really *did* have a great impact -- it made Pete Seeger want to go pull the plug on the cord! I don't think it's particularly journalistic -- lemme me mull it over for a while....
Yes, that about Seeger would go well in the article.
Just finished a more delicious than usual bacalhau à Gomes de Sá. That's the only way I like dried cod, a staple, alas of the Port. diet. No picture at the Port WP, unfortunately, so as a non-cook I can tell you only that there are potatoes, onions & stuffed green olives. Ro Thorpe 14:51, 29 February 2008 (CST)
  • Yep, I've read about dried cod being used in lotsa those regions. The only one I *think* I made have had is the relatively famous French brandade a la morue, which seems to be a puree of potatoes, milk, and cod, pretty bland stuff. I *think* finnan haddie, a Brit(?)/'Merkan dish of dried cod may be similar. I heard ppl talking about it all the time when I was a kid in New England but never had it....Hayford Peirce 16:00, 29 February 2008 (CST)
Drear stuff. I miss very little about England, but fresh cod 'n' chips à l'anglaise... Ro Thorpe 16:38, 29 February 2008 (CST)
I lived in London for about 8 months but never had the national dish. My bad -- but, I suppose, there are good examples and bad.... Hayford Peirce 16:56, 29 February 2008 (CST)
Ah, yes, '68, Poncho on the BBC and Pan-cho on ITV. So did you cook for yourself to avoid the dire Brit stuff? Ro Thorpe 17:44, 29 February 2008 (CST)
Mostly. I had a Tahitian wife who was a pretty dab hand, as they say, at cooking, and just around the corner we had a greengrocer, a meatmarket, a fishmonger, and a "thank you" grocery store, where the guy behind the counter said "thank you, sor," every time you said, "Give me a can of beans, give me a loaf of bread, give me...etc." We would walk down with a 5 pound note and stagger back with 4 enormous bags filled with goodies. Life was cheap for a Yank in those days -- except for real estate.... There was a Greek resto we went to sometimes, also some Carnaby St.-type restos that a swinging friend who worked at Christies would take us to. Plus the Trader Vic's at the Hilton, which thrilled our British friends -- it's still there, I believe. Probably the cost of a single mai tai today would let me go out to a good San Francisco resto for a complete meal.... Hayford Peirce 19:57, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Those were the days, eh? I had to look up 'mai tai', looks very inviting, & I say that as a plonk & beer pleb. Now, I have a request. ('Thank you, sor.') Can you make me a simple table, please? Larry said they were quite easy & I found a tutorial &...well, there are certain things I can't do, like drive a car, for example (I wouldn't last 5 minutes in America). I thought of your tennis table but attempting to relate the mark-up to the finished product was far too complicated, and I only want a two-column affair. Pleez...? Ro Thorpe 11:35, 1 March 2008 (CST)

Time for another one of these

Hehe, that had me laughing (a rare event these days). I hope Larry won't be so intransigent with me. I'm sure if I could just find a very simple one I could copy that - after all that's how I learned to do this stuff in the first place, by emulation, so I guess I'll it's time for some more random page clicking... Wonder how many snakes & battleships there'll be (ratio decreasing gradually) - Ro Thorpe 12:38, 1 March 2008 (CST)

I give up. Can't find any simple enough, so thanks for mentioning the friendly chaps... Ro Thorpe 12:56, 1 March 2008 (CST)

Yeah, me too -- I've learned almost everything, both here and at WP, by emulation and brute force. Check out George Jones -- I think there's a pretty simple table there that I basically imported from WP. You could probably take out a couple of the columns, for instance, with no great hoohah.... Hayford Peirce 13:09, 1 March 2008 (CST)
I found an even simpler one at Saxony, and the result (derision cordially invited) is at E (letter). And since RWK is taking a break, I'll have to wait until I hear from Chris. So it goes. Ro Thorpe 13:45, 1 March 2008 (CST)
Yep, the Saxony one is about as basic as one can get, I would say. Your E letter one looks like it could use some Boldface and so forth, but aside from that it seems OK to me. Of course, I speak from total ignorance - I dunno what *you* think it should look like: maybe something entirely different. Have a glass of plonk, relax your mind, and let the answer sorta just drift into place. That's the way I attack intractable problems. Although sometimes it takes two or more glasses to really succeed.... Hayford Peirce 14:05, 1 March 2008 (CST)
That's really good advice, thanks. I do seem to be getting somewhere - before the ladies came in - perhaps you know how to get at someone else's Hotmail...? Ro Thorpe 15:06, 1 March 2008 (CST)
You mean like your girlfriend's Hotmail account? Wish I did, hehe.... Hayford Peirce 15:11, 1 March 2008 (CST)

Hehe. But do you mean that a particular computer can only get at one person's account? Anyway, thanks to your timely encouragement, I can now make a table, and, no, it's not too hard. Hooray! - Ro Thorpe 15:28, 1 March 2008 (CST)

  • Oh. No, no one computer can access any number of accounts -- you just need to know that person's Username and Password. You could visit me, for instance, and use my computer to access your own Hotmail, Yahoo, and gMail accounts. And I could do the same Chez Toi. But you gotta have the vital info... But remembering all that crap is a nuisance -- I finally wrote it down in my address book for when I travel....
    • Yes, of course, I remember accessing my account on holiday. Well, they've gone home now.
  • Yes, I saw that the new table looks very professional -- when I was screwing around in WP I did a couple of them by myself once I had figured out the principles -- and could take an existing table to fiddle around with.... The secret of success in most endeavors! Hayford Peirce 16:00, 1 March 2008 (CST)
    • Yes, indeed. It does look really purdy, and I've just finished two more at Spelling pronunciation, remember that? Complicated, but I'll be able to do it automatically once I've done another hundred or so...Ro Thorpe 17:33, 1 March 2008 (CST)

(nice old-fashioned BrE word) - I put one for the CZ in the WP article about you - hope that's OK - Ro Thorpe 14:51, 2 March 2008 (CST)

Well, actually it was an advert for the CZ - but I know what you mean! - Ro Thorpe 17:04, 2 March 2008 (CST)

Oh Recipes!

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Concrete_Steps_Ahead and kindly do the needful. Supten Sarbadhikari 22:24, 2 March 2008 (CST)

input requested on naming convention proposal

Please check out CZ:Proposals/Naming Conventions for Biographies#Final review? and respond there; if there is agreement, this proposal will move on to the next stage of adoption. Thanks, Anthony Argyriou 13:51, 3 March 2008 (CST)

There's been a significant suggestion for a change to the proposed policy. Please look at CZ:Proposals/Naming Conventions for Biographies#Poll regarding suggested change and respond there. Anthony Argyriou 14:07, 12 March 2008 (CDT)

testing out something

Hayford, can you go to CZ:Upload-Wizard/Sandbox and look at the upload wizard proposed version for me? I want your input (although none of the links work yet, please imagine that you can click on the icon and it will take you to the appropriate upload wizard page). --Robert W King 15:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)

Recipe formalization

Hi, please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Concrete_Steps_Ahead and let us complete it so that it can be formalized and moved to the next stage quickly. Supten Sarbadhikari 21:46, 6 March 2008 (CST)

Whale meat

Hi, Hayford - do you know any recipes for whale meat or any other info that we could add to that article? John Stephenson 23:11, 6 March 2008 (CST)

LOL...John beat me to the question. Have to say those pan fried steaks look delicious (sorry!). Stephen Ewen 02:56, 7 March 2008 (CST)
Visit Whale meat/Gallery ("A collection of images about Whale meat") for images to salivate over... John Stephenson 03:08, 7 March 2008 (CST)
Oh you guys are just about to encourage me to write my long awaited and oft postponed article on bushmeat recipes with its emphasis on gorilla and chimpanzee recipes..... Lee R. Berger 12:56, 7 March 2008 (CST)
Well, be sure to work in the AIDS connection! Yikes! Hayford Peirce 12:57, 7 March 2008 (CST)
now that might have gone a sentence or two too far............. Lee R. Berger 13:05, 7 March 2008 (CST)
How about that Road Kill Cafe? Stephen Ewen 13:42, 7 March 2008 (CST)
Not you too Stephen!

Lee R. Berger 13:55, 7 March 2008 (CST)

I heard that place tastes like tires. --Robert W King 14:02, 7 March 2008 (CST)


Rog's got mono: --Robert W King 15:18, 7 March 2008 (CST)

Who has he been kissin'? Hayford Peirce 15:48, 7 March 2008 (CST)

This ole house

Hi, I got your 2 further emails, & I wanna listen again but I can't cos Eva's gone to bed & she is right next door. Hasta mañana! Ro Thorpe 17:18, 8 March 2008 (CST)


Are you trying to set up that gallery as a subpage of Bread or are you making a new article called Bread baking? Let me know and I'll see if I can fix it because it seems like it's going haywire. --Todd Coles 11:55, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

Got you all fixed up. I think what you did was use the typical method of creating a new article, and you created one called Baking bread/gallery. The easiest way to add a gallery to a main article is: 1) Go to the talk page of the article you want the gallery associated with. 2) Click the "Show" button on the lower right of the subpages template, that is on the same line as Unused Subpages. 3) Click on Gallery. And abracadabra, there you go.. that's what you'd do for anything like that, timelines, etc. --Todd Coles 12:12, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
The subpages thing has added a lot of complications to simple article creation, so I can understand. But you better straighten up soon mister, or it's off to the wiki gulag with you! --Todd Coles 12:21, 9 March 2008 (CDT)


I can't check my email here (where I am) right now, but I was hoping to hear back from you on the images I sent last night. The v2 one is the much better effort on that photograph, and I hope I've done justice on the other one as well. Let me know what you think and if I should make any adjustments so I can think about them on the way home. --Robert W King 12:27, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

I definately agree about the sow's ear comment; but I think both pictures have merit, and assuming there will be a subpage for this type of thing I think both images could end up in some sort of articlespace. If I could I would probably upload both of them (the v2 group and the revised version of the other one). In the group picture it actually shows Heinlein, and in the second picture, there's more definition of your appearance (unfortunately in the big-group photo you're mostly brighted out by the flash it seems). In addition, they are both of sci-fi historical significance --Robert W King 12:43, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

Which which

For once it wasn't my 'which' which you corrected! (Calcidius.)

There's been quite a drama over that article actually, resulting in Larry having to wield his axe... Ro Thorpe 17:42, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

What makes a well-integrated article

Hi, I was interested by your comments (on the BoSox Talk: page) about how we want "well-integrated" articles, and not fact collections. I'm concerned that I haven't reached that level yet in my own work. Any chance you could take a quick look at Hokusai and Anatoly Marchenko and tell me if I'm avoid the "collection of facts" pitfall? (I don't expect you to carefully read them, just glance at them quickly and see if the overall vibe is "integrated" or not...) If you can, thanks... J. Noel Chiappa 19:58, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Hey, no rush at all - I've got plenty else to keep me busy! Take your time... J. Noel Chiappa 13:14, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Hi, thanks for taking the time to look at them, and to craft an extended reaction. I'm relieved to hear that I did manage something in a good style with those two. I thought I had a good concept of what an encyclopaedia article should be, good to hear I actually was on the right path. (Well, the Hokusai article could possibly use a little more content - more 'artsy' stuff that would make sense to someone who was fluent in visual arts jargon, which I'm not.) J. Noel Chiappa 13:58, 14 March 2008 (CDT)


We had Portuguese cod casserole tonight. I hope the English makes sense. If so, bom apetite! Ro Thorpe 17:29, 14 March 2008 (CDT)


Excellent, I'll put it in - Ro Thorpe 13:41, 16 March 2008 (CDT)

Autre hot potato

Differences between British and American English should be fun. I have the article written, but what to call it? Ro Thorpe 18:48, 17 March 2008 (CDT)

Geez, I dunno. I have seen articles about this, and even the name of an entire book. How about English—American and British differences or some such? Hayford Peirce 18:53, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
Or English: Transatlantic differences? I notice you switched the order round from the one suggested by l'anglais John Stephenson! But my article has BrE on the left & AmE on the right. Ideally you'd be able to click on a button and that would reverse them - perhaps there is something like that available. Ro Thorpe 19:09, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
I just didn't want "English" to repeat itself in two consecutive words. No philosophy involved. I like your new title much better anyhow. I wonder if Prof. Higgins has something to suggest. "Whenever an Englishman speaks he makes some other Englishman despise him etc." Hayford Peirce 19:11, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
Reading your titles and edit summaries is fast becoming a favourite past-time of mine ... anyway, I am thinking of search engine logic, how can we get someone typing in 'British and American English' to redirect to 'Transatlantic'? I like the new suggestion--much more concise--just trying to work out the logistics.Louise Valmoria 19:17, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
I *think* that's where the redirect mechanisms come in. If you type in something commonsensical like "Differences between British and American English", there's already a redirect of that name, as well as 6 or 7 others that are similar in nature. I think we discussed this in one of the Portuguese food dish pages. I *guess* search engines can find the redirect.... More than that, I dunno.... Hayford Peirce 19:26, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
I think the redirect thing only works if you type in that exact string. I just tried some experiments with Draper Labs, a redirect I created some months ago. Neither Google (which doesn't surprise me, because nothing links to it, which is how Google works), nor Wikipedia's own search function (!) find it. (Hence my comment on the Portuguese cod page that the trick is to have both names in the text of the article, where search functions do seem to find it.) J. Noel Chiappa 21:24, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
Sigh. Back to the old drawing board. Why is it that in life *nothing* is simple!? Hayford Peirce 21:43, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
You once said something very acute about computers and Hell... :-) J. Noel Chiappa 21:47, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
Noel makes the good point that 'transatlantic' is too vague, could include Jamaican, Canadian, etc. He suggests 'British & American' & I'm inclined to agree, if only because that's the way the article is set up. What do you, Hayford, & the others think? Ro Thorpe 12:47, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
I wuz gonna make a similar comment. Although I've seen lotsa lists over the years comparing truck to lorry and lift to elevator, etc., they never included, say Jamaican English for whatever they call a jitney bus or whatever. Nor did they include Canadian English (can't think of a telling example at the moment) -- they were purely Standard Brit vs. Standard 'Merkin. I think we should confine ourselves to this. (Don't forget the Brit use of the verb "plate", as of 1968, anyhow. This always seemed a stretch to me, but I'm sure 'Merkin has absurdities also.) (On the other hand, is the article going to encompass slang or not? On mature reflection, no, it shouldn't.) Hayford Peirce 13:09, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
Agreed. But what verbal use of plate is that? Plated with gold? Ro Thorpe 13:20, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
If you don't know, then you're too young and innocent to be told, at least in these chaste pages! Hayford Peirce 13:22, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
Sure am! Ro Thorpe 13:39, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
If we are going to focus specifically on the differences between British English and American English, we should just leave the title at that--will keep the scope of the article clear.Louise Valmoria 18:54, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
I've asked Aleta. I shall not be doing Australian English, a hot potato too far. Ro Thorpe 19:07, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
Aleta does not find the matter of what the article is called to be of project-wrecking significance, provided that the title describes exactly what the article discusses.
A mon avis, there is one major division between British and American English. Sort of. Within those there are differences, in the case of the Commonwealth, from country to country, and in the case of American English, region to region. In fact, even within the Commonwealth, there are regional differences, which is clear if you think "Britain" (and then have a good time arguing about just what "Britain" is.)
My preference would be "Differences between American and Commonwealth English" because that's really what we are talking about (the major grammatical/structural, typographical and pronunciation difference). However, whatever you do and whatever you call it, there should be a paragraph explaining for the unitiated that there are other differences as well, that is, that people in Jamaica and Australia speak Commonwealth or British English, but even so, there are regional variations.
I also strongly believe that we need an article about Commonwealth English, if the "Difference between" article only deals with the U.K. and the U.S.A.
Aleta Curry 18:06, 19 March 2008 (CDT)

Traduction articles français

Bonjour, Je suis un spécialiste de l'IA (Intelligence Artificielle, celle qui fait fonctionner les robots d'Asimov...), depuis 1982. J'ai deux articles en français, l'un sur l'IA l'autre sur les systèmes experts, qu'il faudrait traduire. Etes-vous partant ? Jean-Philippe de Lespinay 18:24, 18 March 2008 (CDT)

Arthur C. Clarke

Died this week. Either today or yesterday. --Robert W King 10:36, 19 March 2008 (CDT)

More food photography

Dan Dennett

Epost in the mail - Ro Thorpe 17:32, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

Stub awaits your attention. His site calls him Daniel C. Dennett, so that's what I named it, but you may wish to change it. Ro Thorpe 16:51, 29 March 2008 (CDT)

Nice piece from the Grauniad. But why Boston for Beirut, I wonder? Ro Thorpe 18:03, 29 March 2008 (CDT)

I dunno, it's a conundrum. I'm just about to email him and ask where he *really* was born.... Hayford Peirce 18:06, 29 March 2008 (CDT)

False friends

Just seen your note in the history for the first time. Merits a section, I think. Ro Thorpe 12:24, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

I've added some sentences for you to do Wooster/Jeeves impersonations with: English spellings#Example sentences -- Ro Thorpe 15:30, 8 April 2008 (CDT)

Food prep images

I've been thinking about these and trying to determine what the best way to display them would be. Right now, for example, on Bolognese sauce we have them in the main article as well as on a gallery page. I could also see this as being useful if it were put on the recipe page. But I think we should try to get rid of the redundancy. Any thoughts? --Todd Coles 15:10, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

If space (storage) is no object, then I'd just stick them into the recipes also -- better too much than too little. As Mark Twain (supposedly) said: "Too much of anything is bad, but too much whiskey is just enough." Galleries are someone else's invention -- I dunno if they're useful or not.... Hayford Peirce 15:38, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

recipe subpages

Hi Hayford, i see you got the recipe subpages going and even a catalog too :) I think that the recipe subpage is fine if there is only one recipe. The sub-subpages are useful if there is more than one recipe. Hamburger is currently set up that way. To make a subsubpage there is nothing quite as simple as the subpage but its still not too hard. If you are on a recipe subpage such as Hamburger/Recipes you can add a sub-subpage by adding to the url /New Recipe, for example, Hamburger/Recipes/New Recipe. When you press return you will see a window with a link to edit this new page. I can upload pictures again if you find that useful? Chris Day 21:49, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

Hi Chris, thanks for the info. Lemme have a couple of days to play around with things and I'll see how they come out. You know me: if I need help, I'll holler loud and clear! Hayford Peirce 22:17, 1 May 2008 (CDT)
Creating a recipe subsubpage
Step 1: When on the recipes subpage add the new recipe name to the url, for example, Hamburger/Recipes/New Recipe, then you press return.
Creating a recipe subsubpage
Step 2: Click the edit this page link
Creating a recipe subsubpage
Step 3: Add {{subpages}} template (above red line) and new recipe (below red line), then save page.
'Step 4': Finally, add a link to the recipe subpage. In the form of *[[/New Recipe|New Recipe]]

Too late, I just uploaded some figures. Hopefully this is useful for you and others? Chris Day 22:33, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

Hehe. I'll take a look in a moment -- I'm sure that they *will* be very useful! Thanks again.... Hayford Peirce 22:42, 1 May 2008 (CDT)


Neither had I, but it cropped up in WP where it has an article.

An friend of mine has sent me a list & it has some we haven't, adieu, for ex., off the top of my head. I've encouraged him to sign up for CZ, but he has just gone on holiday. He never edited WP so if he shows no sign when he comes back, I'll email you the list, okay? Meanwhile, shoulders a little better, thanks to my resident masseuse... Ro Thorpe 17:11, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

sorry to hear you're suffering too. just typing that little bit above has affected my shoulder, even though i was careful not to flex it - we could both use some bextra... Ro Thorpe 17:36, 4 May 2008 (CDT) - on the subject of french words, yes, i've been aware of that problem - the very common words + those not directly from fr sould come out, i reckon.

thanxx - answers - brief - on my talk page - Ro Thorpe 18:01, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

eva sez she'll try to get me some anti-inflammatory tablets - thanx for the advice - Ro Thorpe 14:39, 5 May 2008 (CDT)

...And, having taken my first Celebrex, I'm already thinking I'm feeling better, though not celebrating too much yet...

That's supposed to be a powerful one also -- I think it was banned for a while, then restored, with more restrictions.... Hayford Peirce 18:37, 7 May 2008 (CDT)
Yes, I'm definitely better tonight - not typing with it yet, tho, shift key only. Ro Thorpe 19:16, 7 May 2008 (CDT)

I heard 'délegâte' on guess-where last night, to go with 'cándidâte', which we have in the 'other' list. Are there other nouns like that in AmE - an 'éstimâte', for example? Ro Thorpe 16:23, 7 May 2008 (CDT)

Hmmm, I myself, I think, say dell-i-git or dell-a-gut or some mixture of those two when using it as a noun, with the stress a little on the first syl. As a verb I think I say delly-gate, with the stress pretty much divided evenly. Both versions are, I think, pretty close to what I tend to be hearing from others.... Hayford Peirce 18:37, 7 May 2008 (CDT)
Same as me. Once again, eccentricities from that channel. Ro Thorpe 19:16, 7 May 2008 (CDT)
I would ignore them as a useful source in the future.... Hayford Peirce 19:17, 7 May 2008 (CDT)
'Two-thousand-six' on CBS Nooz last night: seems CBS & CNN's numerical attitudes are on a par with the BBC's spell-prons - Ro Thorpe 13:16, 8 May 2008 (CDT)
What can I say about the 300 million 'Merkins who don't always heed my advice? Hayford Peirce 13:19, 8 May 2008 (CDT)


The pages you should be making are Butter/Recipes (can created using the blue link in the talk page) as well as sub-subpages such as Butter/Recipes/Homemade and Butter/Recipes/Clarified. You made the mistake of creating new article, one being Clarified butter and the other being Butter, homemade rather than creating sub-subpages of the butter article. i merged your text from Clarified butter into the butter article and made redirects to the respective recipe subsubpages for the two articles you started. Chris Day 00:27, 8 May 2008 (CDT)

Hmmm, I'm just on my way to bed -- I'll study this carefully tomorrow. In the meantime, thanks! Hayford Peirce 00:34, 8 May 2008 (CDT)


Hayford amongst other things the definitions are used on the related articles subpage, see [[Biology/Related Articles for a good example). On those subpages the links are made using the {{R}} template that calls the definition. In the R template as follows (examples from Milton's articles):

{{r|Radar intercept receiver}}
{{r|Radar warning receiver}}
{{r|Fluid catalytic cracking}}

The appearance on a related articles page would be as follows.

  • Radar intercept receiver [r]: detects and categorizes an impinging signal to the level needed for radar identification and selecting countermeasures. [e]
  • Radar warning receiver [r]: allows detection of a radar that potentially might be able to sense the platform carrying the receiver, but does not give detailed characterization of the radar signal, as needed for electronic intelligence. [e]
  • Fluid catalytic cracking [r]: A petroleum refining process that cracks the large hydrocarbon molecules in the portion of the petroleum crude oil boiling above 340 °C into lower boiling, more valuable high octane gasoline and olefinic gases. [e]
  • Pump [r]: A device used to move fluids, such as liquids or slurries, from a lower pressure to a higher pressure adding energy to the system to overcome the difference in pressure. [e]

Red links mean there is no article while a blue link means there is an article. Not shown here, but a purple link means the article is a redirect or does not have a subpages format. You can also use the {{rpl}} template that will show a pictogram indicating the status of the articles that exists along with the definition. This latter template will be used primarily on the workgroup pages or on user pages. It is a useful tool for tracking the progress of articles.

  • Radar intercept receiver: detects and categorizes an impinging signal to the level needed for radar identification and selecting countermeasures. [e]
  • Stub Radar warning receiver: allows detection of a radar that potentially might be able to sense the platform carrying the receiver, but does not give detailed characterization of the radar signal, as needed for electronic intelligence. [e]
  • Developed Article Fluid catalytic cracking: A petroleum refining process that cracks the large hydrocarbon molecules in the portion of the petroleum crude oil boiling above 340 °C into lower boiling, more valuable high octane gasoline and olefinic gases. [e]
  • Developing Article Pump: A device used to move fluids, such as liquids or slurries, from a lower pressure to a higher pressure adding energy to the system to overcome the difference in pressure. [e]

If you don't want the definition but like the idea of being able to track the status of an article on your user page then you could use the {{pl}} template as follows:

Finally the definition is shown at the top of the talk page so although the tab does disappear the definitions is still visible and can be edited by clicking on the small "[e]" link after the definition. I hope this helps to clarify the role of the definitions. Chris Day 12:56, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

I went with the example you gave, although I may not have done it perfectly.

A few things to note.

  1. A definition can exist without an article.
  2. An article can exist without a definition but there will be a prompt to add a definition.
  3. An article such as Grips (tennis) can be shown on the tennis related articles pages as Grips since in that context it is obviously discussing tennis grips. See how the little [r] link on the tennis subtopic "grips" takes you to the related articles of grips, thus you can explore further topics. Once related articles pages become fully developed it will be very easy to click through related articles finding parent or subtopics.
  4. Once a definition has been written it can be reused on multiple related article subpages. If it is incorrect it only has to be corrected once, it is easily corrected by clicking on the small [e] link after the definition.

Hopefully you can see the full power of such a system in organising the information within citizendium. This is why we do not need categories, this works in the same way, but better, as now you have definitions of the topics too. Chris Day 14:46, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

Ah, due to a bug in the {{r}} template, you can't use it in lists. You can manually insert the definition and link to the article (I'll do one to show you how), but I suggest you hold off on doing so until the bug is fixed (at least, I hope it's gonna be fixed). See the message on Aleta'a Talk: page for a description of the bug, and Chris's Talk: page for a message to him asking to fix it (since he's working on R at the moment. J. Noel Chiappa 18:28, 19 May 2008 (CDT)
Chris and I tweaked on {{r}} some, and now it can very easily be used in just about any formatting situation. See Science fiction/Related Articles‎ (and Template:R/Doc if your're up for it :-). J. Noel Chiappa 11:24, 20 May 2008 (CDT)


note for you on fr. talk page - Ro Thorpe 17:49, 16 May 2008 (CDT)

missing note

thanks - once again i typed a note to you at 'french words in english' - c ya there - Ro Thorpe 09:18, 20 May 2008 (CDT)

French TOC

Hi, I finally found something that would work. (The 'canonical' ways of leaving invisible targets in HTML files don't work with MediaWiki, so I had to find - after some work - an alternative way which did work.) I did A, B and C, to show you how to do it. Alas, the target (the <span> stuff) has to go in the first cell of the line (the last cell of the line before might also work), or it doesn't work right. I.e. you can't put it on the line "|-" that separates lines in the table (alas). The good news is that you can jump to those invisible targets from any page, so I did it on the page above, as well as the catalog page, to show you how to get there. The formatting of the index table I leave to you - I just did a straight '*' list because it was the invisible jump targets I was most concerned with. You're lucky - I was just about to give up and tell you to split it up into 26 separate tables, and label each with "==A==", etc, when I found this! J. Noel Chiappa 16:03, 24 May 2008 (CDT)

You could put them in a table, 5 per line, or you could use a '*' list along with {{col-begin}}, {{col-break}} (takes an argument of the form "width=20%") and {{col-end}}. Many possibilities! :-) J. Noel Chiappa 16:22, 24 May 2008 (CDT)

Final Recipe

The Editorial Council has adopted the Resolution 0009 and has formally requested Hayford Peirce to kindly form the designated group for the implementation of CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy and CZ:Recipes. Supten Sarbadhikari 05:27, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

article for possible approval

You Wrote:
Hi, David, I just realized that you are a Sports editor -- I didn't think any of them were active at all. Glad to see that you're here and doing stuff! Could you take a look at the Ray Casey article and tell me if you think it needs anything more? Frankly, I think it's gone about as far as it can except for more research concerning long-ago matches, which is pretty difficult to do. And, of course, if possible, I'd sure like to see it get Approved status if this is within your means -- I don't think that there are any Approved sports articles at all.... Thanks, and all the best, Hayford Peirce 19:37, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the note. I most likely won't have a chance to look at it this week (final exams for my students and all). When I do look at it, I'm probably not going to know what to do, but I'll try to read some policy items before I mess things up. Have a great weekend.--David Boven 23:28, 30 May 2008 (CDT)

rather a long one...hope you're okay - Ro Thorpe 19:17, 3 June 2008 (CDT) - ah, the turmoil increases apace, i see.

I added...

...a new red word (link) to Butler you might be interested in: Absinthe. :-) Stephen Ewen 01:24, 2 June 2008 (CDT)