Citizendium - a community developing a quality, comprehensive compendium of knowledge, online and free.
Click here to join and contribute
CZ thanks our previous donors. Donate here. Treasurer's Financial Report

User talk:Hayford Peirce/Archive 1

From Citizendium
Jump to: navigation, search


Citizendium Getting Started
Join | Quick Start | About us | Help system | The Author Role | The Editor Role
Essentials | How to start a new article | For Wikipedians | Other
Getting Started Organization Communication Technical Help Initiatives
Policies Editor Guidance Content Guidance Article Lists Governance
Welcome Page

Tasks: start a new article • add basic, wanted or requested articles • add definitionsadd metadata • edit new pages

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start. You'll probably want to know how to get started as an author. Just look at Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. Be sure to stay abreast of events via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun!

You can find some more information about our collaboration groups if you follow this link Citizendium_Pilot:Discipline_Workgroups.You can always ask me on my talk page or others about how to proceed or any other question you might have.

--Thomas Simmons 23:42, 10 May 2007 (CDT) +17 hours (EPT)

Ben Tilden

Hayford, good to see you fast at work already! If you give me the exact diff at wikipedia that you parsed the article from, I can help to verify that you wrote most of it, then we might be able to take off the "content is form WP" from the bottom of the page. Also, did you see CZ:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians. Leave a message on my talk about the wikipedia diff and I'll see what I can do. --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:39, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I looked through the history and saw that you definitely wrote most of it, but I think we would have to go back further before we could take off the checkbox. Such a shame :-) You wrote most of it for sure. Though, if you make enough changes that it no longer resembles the wikipedia article, we can still take off the checkbox. You can look at it again once you've finished cleaning it up. Don't forget to add the CZ:The Article Checklist to your articles! It helps your workgroup keep track of the status of articles so you can get them approved. If you need help on the first one, let me know. --Matt Innis (Talk) 22:00, 11 May 2007 (CDT)

WPauthor template

By the way, where did you find that {{WPauthor}} template :-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 13:57, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

My apologies for sending you on a wild goose hunt. Hopefully, I fit somewhere between the nutz and the crazies and nowhere near the Nazis. --Matt Innis (Talk) 19:30, 16 May 2007 (CDT)


see my talk --Matt Innis (Talk) 13:37, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

The Catcher in the Rye

When you see articles like that, put the Template:Speedydelete on it and then a constable (like me) will look at it and decide if it fits any of Article Deletion Policy guidelines that we can use. Otherwise, bring it to the attention of an editor. If you put a speedydelete template on this one, I could technically delete it as an "imported article with no significant changes in 2 weeks". Go ahead and give it a try. --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:41, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

There you go! If you find anymore of those, just slap that tag on them and we'll take it from there. --Matt Innis (Talk) 22:24, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Image:Smallbone Deceased cover.jpg

Hi Hayford. Please see Help:Images#.22Fair_use.22. In this case, the thing to do is to seek permission from the copyright holder of the book and document each attempt to reach them while trying to achieve this. Then if that fails consider whether to make a fair use claim. Stephen Ewen 16:48, 18 May 2007 (CDT)


Hayford, I'm the one who originally posted about the cover of Smallbone Deceased -- let me also look into whether I can find a fair-use or licensed version of this image. I have the book, and can scan it -- I am hoping I can also find an appropriate license or fairuse way to have it here on CZ! Russell Potter 22:16, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

Information Template

Hi Hayford, I saw your note on Steve Ewen's talk page about the upload process. It's kind of a hassle to have to open a new program just to upload a photo, so I've copied below the template sans contents. Just be sure to copy it as it shows up here and not the way that I typed it into the editing box because I added in some formatting code that doesn't belong in the template. :) You might also copy it to your user page, if you think that would be helpful. Hope this helps. --Joe Quick (Talk) 15:14, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

|other_versions= (optional variable, can be left out)
I am in process of figuring out how to improve the Special:upload page and did figure out, for now and so far, how to at least enlarge the tiny Summary window on the page. It only takes replacing the number 6 with 25 in a certain place in a file called SpecialUpload.php; so, I emailed the tech guys and hopefully they'll make that change very soon. Stephen Ewen 00:23, 22 May 2007 (CDT)


Note how I tidied Image:Fred_Perry_Statue_at_Wimbledon.jpg. That sort of precise data is the goal. Stephen Ewen 01:21, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

Before asking that permission

See my talk again. Stephen Ewen 18:41, 24 May 2007 (CDT)


Mr. Peirce, my ID is not to be seen related to a theory, as a mater of fact everybody has an ID. It seems to me id, or ID redirecting to intelligent design seems not a good idea. Robert Tito |  Talk  23:29, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

ID theft

good luck with that topic :) in the digital age that is important, so I still am not happy with your redirect. ID and ID theft are not related to your redirect but are important enough to discriminate them seperately and not according to a common short hand. Robert Tito |  Talk  23:40, 24 May 2007 (CDT)

Hello backatcha

I haven't even dipped a toe in the water here--just looked around. When I have more time, I'll see what I can get up to. Meanwhile, Locus wants a what-Heinlein-means-to-me essay for their RAH centennial issue, and I have just over three weeks to figure something out. Russell Letson 21:17, 28 May 2007 (CDT)

Quill Pens

Touché, Hayford. Touché.

--Robert W King 08:20, 31 May 2007 (CDT)



First I'd like to confess that I'm not an all encompassing expert on CZ style(yet..), however it seems to me that the Bread article is way too categorical, of which I am totally guilty of sometimes as well. I am under the impression that articles should be more or less a running narrative on the subject, so it might be reworked to be less sliced and more loafed.--Robert W King 15:44, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

Special characters

Hi Hayford --

Special alphabetical characters are available on most keyboards -- I'm a Mac man, for instance, so I can get my accents with option-downaccent-e, which gives me è, or option-e-e, which gives me é -- would this work for you?

I responded to you at my talk page

Thanks for showing interest in my contributions! I responded to you at my talk page. Nathaniel Dektor 19:54, 7 June 2007 (CDT)


Hayford, I must beg to differ. As the author of two books and dozens of book chapters and journal articles, of course I have dealt with copyeditors before -- and yet, just as there is quality in writing, there is quality in copyediting. Indeed, there is even give and take (I have, on many occasions, decided not to accept one or another changed reading made by a copyeditor, and this has always been handled professionally, that is, discussed and then the final say was with me (provided there was no unquestionable departure from grammar or the publisher's own style sheets). Copyediting which changes the meaning of phrases and then gets defensive is not copyediting which would be very much valued in the world of print, no more than it ought to be in the electronic world. Russell Potter 18:41, 8 June 2007 (CDT)


Is this you? Glad to see a sci-fi author on CZ. Just a question, I'm looking forward to write an article on Brave New World, does it count as sci-fi genre? Thanks. Yi Zhe Wu 19:18, 9 June 2007 (CDT)

John Franklin Bardin

Hayford, good heavens yes, I am a lifelong (well, since my college years) fan of John Franklin Bardin. Not only is he named after my favorite explorer, Sir John Franklin, but his blend of precipitous psychological terror with a freakshow's worth of human oddities is really without parallel!

Of course I am most fond of The Deadly Percheron, which I re-read at least once every five years or so; his others I have read once, but not recently. The newest edition of Percheron has a tempting excerpt from a "last unpublished novel" -- perhaps that will be out soon? The publisher is Millipede Press. Cheers, Russell Potter 12:04, 11 June 2007 (CDT)


Short answer: Yep--good call at Dog/Draft today. Aleta Curry 19:22, 13 June 2007 (CDT)

French fries

So, what time is dinner tonight, your place? :-D ---Stephen Ewen 15:18, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Food pornography

Does the example photo I uploaded for food photography constitute "food porn"? :-) Yi Zhe Wu 17:12, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Yep, because the guy who took it is a freelance photographer. I sent him a message notifying that the image is used here. But is there a possibility that he revokes the cc license after knowing it? Yi Zhe Wu 17:32, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
I will ask later. I have already posted several messages on Stephen's talk page, more ones would be bothering him too much. Yi Zhe Wu 17:42, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
Don't worry about "bothering me too much". It is too late for him to revoke the license, even if he wanted to. ---Stephen Ewen 18:23, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Why the GFDL is a bad license for individual photos

If someone wants to reuse a photo licensed under the GFDL, they must per the terms of the license include the full two-page GFDL license along with the re-use. So, for example, if I wanted to use your photo in a pamphlet, magazine, or book, I would have to reserve space to print the full GFDL license. The GFDL is a terrible license for photos. Creative Comons is much better, since the entire requirement is two sentences rather than two pages long. Most people simply reject using a GFDL photo, except within GFDL text. Stephen Ewen 18:53, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Image licenses


Why don't you use Creative Commons cc-by-sa 3.0?

See for more information. --Robert W King 14:50, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


Something tells me "LeChatMachine" is not the fellow's real name. :-)


I sent him the following:


A Citizendium author has uploaded your image for use 
However, per
#Images_from_Wikipedia.2C_Wikimedia_Commons.2C_Flickr.2C_ I need to delete the image unless 
you can let us know your real name.  If you prefer, we 
can also remove the link to your flickr page in that case.  

Let me know! 

Stephen Ewen 21:55, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

Well, yes, I myself had figgered that out, hehe. And in *real* French it woulda been LeChatMachin, not Machine. But I didn't know that requiring real names extended to the source of photos -- I thought it was just for our own humble selves. Anyway, I'm that this mini-crisis will be dealt with.... Cheers! Hayford Peirce 22:56, 17 June 2007 (CDT)

The matter is settled. :-) Stephen Ewen 12:30, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Many thanks! But see my comment on your discussion page.... Hayford Peirce 12:32, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Signing edits

Hayford, don't forget to sign your posts with --~~~~ --Robert W King 09:08, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Diffusion of innovations

Looks like three folk from the same university, a prof, a specialist, and a student, are doing something. I am just going to let them go and watch a while. Stephen Ewen 17:03, 20 June 2007 (CDT)


I started McDonald's, since you are the expert on food, you may be interested in taking a look at it and/or make changes. Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 17:33, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

Hello, on McDonald's, what is the "false information" I wrote that you are referring to? Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 09:36, 24 June 2007 (CDT)
Thanks for pointing that out. It was my knee-jerk reaction to call the founders of corporations "industrialists" (JD Rockefeller, for example). I didn't know they were just small hamburger-sellers. :-) Also for the human rights part you disputed with John, McDonald's was not found of human rights violation by any British courts, but by the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled that British libel laws are over-oppressive and the environmentalists were denied legal aid, basically. Yi Zhe Wu 11:06, 24 June 2007 (CDT)


Hayford, the source link points to nothing. You probably still have it in your browser's history. Can you add it please? Thanks, Stephen Ewen 21:13, 25 June 2007 (CDT)


Hayford, here is my basic illustration for how to provide a reference:

website - <ref> {{cite web | url="" | date="" | author="" | title="" | accessdate="" }} </ref>
journal - <ref> {{cite journal | author="" | journal="" | year="" | title="" | number="" | volume="" | pages="" }} </ref>
book - <ref> {{cite book |last="" |first="" |authorlink="" |coauthors="" |title="" |year="" |publisher="" |location="" |isbn="" }} </ref>


Hayford's Bar

See this. :D --Stephen Ewen 22:27, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

And this :-D ---Stephen Ewen 19:44, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Image:4th of July Burger.jpg

I strongly protest this photo. There are vitamins in it.  :-D But seriously, if the hamburger is almost certainly American, the flag would be appropriate.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:10, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Navy Grog

I added some early history of Grog, it was invented in 1740, much earlier than originally stated.Charles F. Radley 21:20, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

Food images

Nope, Image:Vitello_tonnato_1.jpg is not released under the Creative Commons, see its source page again; note it says © All rights reserved, middle-right. I emailed her to ask her to change it to a CC license. Careful!  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:45, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry the author changed the licensing data before you saw the page saying © All rights reserved. That must have been frustrating. At any rate, the photo is all free and clear now.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 14:25, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Image:Don Beach Front Cover.jpg

Note the tag. Any others?  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:31, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

I can't make out the detail of Image:Don_Beach_Front_Cover.jpg. Do you have an image of it that same size as the back cover?  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 14:54, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Just document the attempts on one page for now. I'll create redirects to the one from each image for now. All of these images are gems, BTW. Say, it would be awesome to get old photos of inside and outside the restaurant.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:45, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Roger Federer

Feel free to contribute more if you'd like --Charles Sandberg 07:01, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Bjorn Borg

Thanks for changing the name. I knew he had the two dots but I wasn't sure how to do it with this software, so I just left it without it. Thank you. --Charles Sandberg 17:17, 3 July 2007 (CDT)


Hayford, as one fan of felicitous phrase to another: I think we should use "civilians" rather than "noncombatants," since the latter implies that combat is active in the area, which though made familiar through news headlines in Iraq, does not apply to attacks in London, Glasgow, New York, and Oklahoma City, where there is no active combat and therefore no combatants. Russell Potter 20:36, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

using tennis table template

No problem, templates are not exactly intuitive. The template is set up so that you can add the information to the different fields. The template then arranges that information into the table formatt automatically. A typical template has the form of {{Template name |field1= info1 |field2=info2 |field3=info3 |etc...}}

The name of the tennis template currently being used on the Famous tennis players page is Tennis player2 which includes the following fields that are available for the appropriate information.

|Name= |Nickname= |Full name= |Birth= |Death= |Nationality= |Hand= |Strength= |Weakness= |rank years= |Davis years= |Davis team wins= |Davis singles= |Davis doubles= |Slam victories= |Slam singles= |Slam doubles= |Slam mixed doubles= |Davis info= |ProAm= |Trivia=

You can either add the appropriate info, leave the field blank or just leave the field out all together. One of these templates needs to be filled out for each player in the table. The templates are stacked one after the other. To complete the table there needs to be a header template, in this case {{tennis header2}} and an end table designator which is just the following two characters |}. A complete table for three players (A,B &C) will have the following structure.

{{tennis header2}}
{{Tennis player2 |field1= info1A |field2=info2A |field3=info3A |etc...}}
{{Tennis player2 |field1= info1B |field2=info2B |field3=info3B |etc...}}
{{Tennis player2 |field1= info1C |field2=info2C |field3=info3C |etc...}}

Feel free to ask more questions. Chris Day (talk) 13:09, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Mock up with two players

Name Biographical Technique Record
Event S D MD Wins

Info: B

Nationality: F

Birth: D
Death: E

G handed
Class: T
Grand Slam  P  Q  R  O
Davis Cup  M  N  K teams wins
World #1 player  J
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: U
Davis Cup info: S

Info: Bb

Nationality: Ff

Birth: Dd
Death: Ee

Gg handed
Class: Tt
Grand Slam  Pp  Qq  Rr  Oo
Davis Cup  Mm  Nn  Kk teams Ll wins
World #1 player  Jj
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: Uu
Davis Cup info: Ss

This repeat of the code placed betwen the pre tags is so you can see the text without going into edit mode.

{{tennis header2}}
{{Tennis player2
|Full name=C
|rank years=J
|Davis years=K
|Davis team wins=L
|Davis singles=M
|Davis doubles=N
|Slam victories=O
|Slam singles=P
|Slam doubles=Q
|Slam mixed doubles=R
|Davis info=S
{{Tennis player2
|Full name=Cc
|rank years=Jj
|Davis years=Kk
|Davis team wins=Ll
|Davis singles=Mm
|Davis doubles=Nn
|Slam victories=Oo
|Slam singles=Pp
|Slam doubles=Qq
|Slam mixed doubles=Rr
|Davis info=Ss

Second mock up

You can also present the write the info in this format but it can become a bit hard to follow when you need to go back in and aedit at a later date. Chris Day (talk) 10:42, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Name Biographical Technique Record
Event S D MD Wins

Info: B

Nationality: F

Birth: D
Death: E

G handed
Class: T
Grand Slam  P  Q  R  O
Davis Cup  M  N  K teams wins
World #1 player  J
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: U
Davis Cup info: S

Info: Bb

Nationality: Ff

Birth: Dd
Death: Ee

Gg handed
Class: Tt
Grand Slam  Pp  Qq  Rr  Oo
Davis Cup  Mm  Nn  Kk teams Ll wins
World #1 player  Jj
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: Uu
Davis Cup info: Ss

This repeat of the code placed betwen the pre tags is so you can see the text without going into edit mode.

{{tennis header2}}
{{Tennis player2 |Name=A |Nickname=B |Full name=C |Birth=D |Death=E |Nationality=F |Hand=G |Strength=H |Weakness=I |rank years=J |Davis years=K |Davis team wins=L |Davis singles=M |Davis doubles=N |Slam victories=O |Slam singles=P |Slam doubles=Q |Slam mixed doubles=R |Davis info=S |ProAm=T |Trivia=U}}
{{Tennis player2 |Name=Aa |Nickname=Bb |Full name=Cc |Birth=Dd |Death=Ee |Nationality=Ff |Hand=Gg |Strength=Hh |Weakness=Ii |rank years=Jj |Davis years=Kk |Davis team wins=Ll |Davis singles=Mm |Davis doubles=Nn |Slam victories=Oo |Slam singles=Pp |Slam doubles=Qq |Slam mixed doubles=Rr |Davis info=Ss |ProAm=Tt |Trivia=Uu}}

(Singing) Food, Glorious Food

Hayford, I couldn't stand that red link any longer, so I made a start at Food Science. Care to join me? At least have a look? Pretty please? Aleta Curry 18:44, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


Since you are the expert in alcohol, have you tried absinth? I just read some controversial thing about it. Yi Zhe Wu 19:31, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


User_talk:Stephen_Ewen#Food_name_help.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 22:57, 22 July 2007 (CDT)

Clinton vs. Bush

Hayford, I really appreciate your input on the Clinton talk page. Hopefully, with my detailed response I've made my position more clear. My argument is not really about Clinton at all. It's about fairness. I hope you'll assume that I'm arguing in good faith and know that I value your contributions. Will Nesbitt 15:35, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

I appreciate your continued input on the Clinton talk page. My frustration level is now near my limits. Will Nesbitt 14:58, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Ik heb honger Hayford. Stop!!!!!

Hayford - I write from Brussels and just saw your Belgian cuisine Catalog and it made me so hungry! Along with all the great food articles you seem to be involved with. I just wanted to stop by and thank you for them, and with that I will stop writing for the Citizendium and prepare my dinner. 'Hmmm... Mussels from Belgium for dinner for me maybe?' Cheers. --Ian Johnson 14:08, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Oh yes. If you have been you may already know this place - the best steak restaurant in Brussels - Vincent. I love to eat there. --Ian Johnson 14:30, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

catalog of American folk singers

Good job on creating the catalog for American folk singers. I have a little question here. I started the catalog catalog of rock bands, which I did not know that it would be soooo long when completed. Should I separate it into several catalogs? Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 15:57, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Wow, how could you hate rock music? Unless I am wrong, you were alive when the 1960s rock were at its peak...the phrase "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" was all around.:-) I asked Professor Potter about the catalog too because he is a music editor, but now he's gone. Thanks for the help, maybe there will be a music editor coming in future when the Big Invite is initiated. Best. Yi Zhe Wu 19:23, 29 July 2007 (CDT)