User talk:Roger A. Lohmann/Archive 1

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Welcome, new editor! We're very glad you've joined us. Here are pointers for a quick start. Also, when you get a chance, please read The Editor Role. You can look at Getting Started and our help system for other introductory pages. It is also important, for project-wide matters, to join the Citizendium-L (broadcast) mailing list. Announcements are also available via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and thank you! We appreciate your willingness to share your expertise, and we hope to see your edits on Recent changes soon. --Larry Sanger 10:19, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Butler Article: Approval sought

Hi Dr Lohmann! I see you've recently become active.

I've been asked to have butler nominated for approval. I assume it's in sociology, so I need a soc editor. Would you be kind enough to have a look?

Aleta Curry 21:53, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Welcome and congratulations on a generally excellent entry. I'm new as an editor too, and I'll have to work my way through the approval process, so please bear with me. Meanwhile, I note one apparent omission among your roster of fictional butlers that P.G. Wodehouse fans will find particularly grating. Bertie Wooster's man Jeeves doesn't appear to be there. (I see a reference to Move Over Jeeves, but not to the original. Wodehouse fans would seriously challenge your statement, for example, that Alfred, Critchton and are better known than the redoubtable Jeeves, who serves in many respects as the model for many of the movie butlers you list.
Unless I've missed something, this is an oversight you will definitely want to correct.
Also, (and this is much more along the lines of an optional suggestion): Do you think there might be a place for a brief "And The Butler Did it" exploration of the place of butlers, and more generally household staff, in mystery fiction? (This might be a possible signed article by a regular reviewer of mystery novels at one of the major newspapers, for example.)
Meanwhile, I'll get started on figuring out the approval process.
Roger Lohmann 06:25, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Thank you so much! I have high hopes for this grand experiment, and hope it is successful. I have a distinct disadvantage, not being a technocrat--I keep reminding the boys not to speak so much computer-ese!

Your suggestions are marvelous. Please note that I most certainly did NOT forget the redoubtable Jeeves! It's just that Jeeves is a valet, not a butler. However, I'm sure lots of authors will be trying to add him in. Do you think that I should refer to this in the article?

"The Butler Did It!" Yes, certainly, sounds like a plan.

I also intend to write valet, housekeeper...all the "traditional" servants, in fact.

Would great house also come under your purview? I assume it would. Sorry for my ignorance, but my few sociology courses were generally in sociology and film--crossover courses. When I went to school there was no film department, so my film minor comprised courses in different departments: literature and film, philosophy and film, etc. I'm afraid I don't really know what's sociology and what's social anthropology.

Thanks again for your help.

Aleta Curry 17:20, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Hi Roger. Would you consider changing the approval date for Butler until say, the 20th? I'd like to tighten that article up more.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 05:22, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Theodor Lohmann

Hi Roger. I've started reading through the Lohmann article, creating templates and subpages, and adding CZ-links as I go along. There is one passage that reads: He belonged to the ?????? faction of the Evangelical Evangelisch-Lutheran regional church in Hanover and was involved in the assistance of youth and old people and vocational training. Which faction is meant here? I couldn't find it in the German WP or the BBKL.  Arne Eickenberg  talk 09:12, 1 September 2007 (CDT)

Great! I thought subpages might be a good idea, but wasn't sure if this was the sort of article that lended itself to such treatment. The faction comment was one of the passages I was most concerned about. The other is the Robert Bosse quote and T.L.'s response. There seems to be a good bit of vernacular speech there, and I'm not at all sure if I captured the sense of what they were saying.
Also, in checking the editorial history in the German Wikipedia entry, it appears that most of that article was done by a single author, whom I cited. I don't know if that is appropriate or not. Advice is welcome.
Roger Lohmann 11:44, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
a) I edited the quote and response to account for the vernacularity. b) Can you point me to the German name of the protestant faction? I seemed to have missed that one. c) added image. d) We don't need to cite the original WP author because we don't know his/her real name. (see also my remark on the article's talk page.) The WP article seems to be mainly based on the BBKL entry, so you should either cite the BBKL author or (which would be better) further edit the article, include more sources etc.  Arne Eickenberg  talk 12:48, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
I've gone about as far as I can go with this one. It doesn't appear that we know much more in English and the translations have been A bit of editorial cleaning up, and some attention to the sub-pages and it should be finished as a Version 1.1.
Roger Lohmann 21:52, 2 September 2007 (CDT)


In reply to your query at Talk:Nonprofit, not-for-profit, voluntary, independent: I never used the template, but I have a rough idea of how it works. It seems you did not see the instructions of the template, which can be found at Template:Subpages9. You did the first step. The second step is to create Template:Nonprofit, not-for-profit, voluntary, independent/Metadata and to put the {{#switch: {{{info}}} ... }} block there. Once you have created it, the mess should go away. -- Jitse Niesen 01:36, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

Jane Addams

Hi Roger. Your attention is needed here. Thanks, --Matt Innis (Talk) 16:01, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

I just noticed that the related articles for this article need definitions added. This needs to happen before approval but should not take too long since they should be very concise. See Biology/Related Articles for an example. Chris Day (talk) 16:13, 6 September 2007 (CDT)

Roger, your attention is needed [1]. If you could leave me a note to let me know which version to approve that would be great. Thanks, Matt Innis (Talk) 21:34, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

Approved! Congratulations. Keep them coming! --Matt Innis (Talk) 22:11, 8 September 2007 (CDT)

metadata template

Roger, on the metadata template under the ToApprove section where it says 'ToAeditor', just put your name 'Roger Lohmann' rather than the four tildes. The template takes care of the rest.[2] --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:14, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

PS. Same with the 'Approved' section. --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:15, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Foundation mess

Hi! By doing a cut-n-paste move of Foundation to Foundation (Construction), you've disconnected the article from its history and removed the actual article from people's (my) watchlists. I'm going to ask a constable to repair the damage; please do not edit the article until then.

I need a constable for this, because the process requires restoring the original content of the article at Foundation, deletion of the Foundation (Construction) article, moving the Foundation article to Foundation (Construction), then recreating the Foundation article as the disambiguation page you created. I'll be contacting a constable for the deletion shortly. Anthony Argyriou 16:24, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

Sorry for the slightly snippy tone earlier. As I've decided that Foundation (Structure) was a better title, I was able to fix everything without the intervention of a constable, except for deleting the orphaned Foundation (Construction). In the future, please do page moves using the "move" tab, rather than cut-n-paste moves, to preserve the page history and other links. Thanks, Anthony Argyriou 16:54, 13 September 2007 (CDT)


On your article approval![3] Ready for another one :-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:28, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

Write-a-thon, again!

Hi Roger! You got any Zinfandel left? Bring it to the party! Aleta Curry 05:41, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

subpages template response

I'm not sure if you saw the response on my talk page. But, as Matt Innis replied the subpages template is used on all subpages to make it easier to navigate to the other subpages and main article within the cluster. This also puts the subpages category on the page as well as any relevant workgroup timeline categories.Matt Mahlmann 17:21, 1 November 2007 (CDT)


Yes, I can delete that for you. What you do (so you don't have to hunt anybody down) is add the {{speedydelete}} template to the Talk page and a constable will delete it when they check their duties. I'll let you try it on this one for practice. Also, it seems that you created me another talk page :) so you can do that one too if you want! --Matt Innis (Talk) 19:46, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

I also added the subpages to the Pittsburgh articles! Good catch. --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:16, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

PS: I forgot to tell you to take out the tl| to make it show up. --Matt Innis (Talk) 06:48, 2 November 2007 (CDT)

Congratulations again!

On your editorship in politics! --Matt Innis (Talk) 14:08, 5 November 2007 (CST)

More good news!

Civil society is approved! Congratulations X3. This has been a good month for you :-) --D. Matt Innis 17:59, 16 November 2007 (CST)

Welcome back! Hope you had a nice break ;-) --D. Matt Innis 21:36, 18 November 2007 (CST)

Try it again

Roger, try putting the subpages on Rural poverty. When you go to the metadata page, instead of typing the name, copy and paste it from the title at the top. Sometimes it doesn't recognize our keyboard strokes, but it knows what it 'types'. I'll watch to see what happens. --D. Matt Innis 22:00, 18 November 2007 (CST)

Matt, Cutting and Pasting the page name seemed to do it for Rural poverty. Thanks. I'll clear up the other Unchecklisted pages later today.
Roger Lohmann 09:37, 19 November 2007 (CST)

December Party!

Hi Roger--Now, I know you're on top of this, but when you wake the December party will be in full swing--I hope! Do stop by! Aleta Curry 01:57, 5 December 2007 (CST)

Possible article for approval

I see that you are listed as an editor in the History Workgroup. That's good news, because I'd like to see the Andrew Carnegie article move toward approval. It's primarily authored by Richard Jensen, so he isn't eligible to approve the article and I think you would be an excellent person to do the job, given the subject of the article. --Joe Quick 00:37, 20 December 2007 (CST)

I've decided it looks good enough to approve quickly. I hope you will concur, and join with me in approving it. If you have any reservations, do tell me and we can delay the process. --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 21:52, 5 January 2008 (CST)
Approved! Thanks for giving me something to do!!!! --D. Matt Innis 20:51, 7 January 2008 (CST)

Newcomer questions

Thank you for welcoming me to CZ and I want take you up on your offer to help me get acclimated to CZ. I have two questions.

  • I created about 45 articles from scratch on Wikipedia. I also revised/expanded/contributed heavily to about 90 additional articles. I understand that if I want to use content from the 45 articles that I created, I need not check the "Content is from Wikipedia" box. However, if I want to use content from the 90 articles that I revised/expanded/contributed heavily to, what then? Should I then check the "Content is from Wikipedia" box?
  • I also created and uploaded into Wikipedia and Commons a great many drawings and diagrams which I drew myself and which I contributed under the GFDL licence option. If I wish to use some of those drawings/diagrams in CZ, what must I do when I upload them into CZ?

Awaiting your reply and thanking you again for your warm welcome, - Milton Beychok 16:22, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Welcome aboard Milton! Anything you wrote or created, you can contribute to Citizendium without reference to your previous contribution to Wikipedia. For articles, that means that if you include only what you wrote, you do not need to check the "Content is from Wikipedia" box. For images, it means you may upload them under any license acceptable to Citizendium, again without checking the "Content is from Wikipedia" box. It is considered good form to explain that you created the content both at Wikipedia and here, so that people don't notice the similarity between articles/images, and thing we're misusing GFDL content. Have a look at Talk:Proctor compaction test and Talk:Pozzolan for a template I've used to mark articles I've transfered only my contributions to Wikipedia. Anthony Argyriou 17:17, 21 January 2008 (CST)

Hi there!

Hi Roger! Yes, it’s a new month, and here’s your friendly reminder that the FEBRUARY PARTY is on, and we’d love to see you there! Come join in the general fun. Aleta Curry 15:30, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Reading non-Latin orthographies

Hi Roger. Sometime back you asked about the question marks that appeared in the Dmanisi article and I said that it was the kartuli script that your computer/browser was not reading. I hardly gave it a second thought but my related software on my Mac and my Safari browser were updated sometime ago and it allows me to read a large number of different scripts. I alter the "Text Encoding" which is under the "View" tab on my Safari menu and shuttle around till I get all the nonsense symbols sorted out. Not sure what software you use but was wondering if you had been able to sort this problem out?--Thomas Simmons 16:38, 9 February 2008 (CST)

RE: Welcome

Hey, thanks for welcoming me. I contribute to a bunch of wikis (Wikipedia, Codesnippets, CookbookWiki, Wikimedia where I can, and this one), but hey, never hurts to have the guidelines laid out. Again, THX! --Greg Pass 18:36, 25 February 2008 (CST)

Your proposal "Teaming with Young Authors"

Hello. Your proposal "Teaming with Young Authors" has sadly not gained a driver since you put it forward on 19 February, and I thus had to move it to the list of driverless proposals. If you find time to become driver of the proposal, or find somebody else, please update the proposal record and the proposal will become active. Your newly-appointed Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 16:59, 3 March 2008 (CST)

I'm impressed

You got the article url! . Now can you teach everybody else that ;-) The only other thing is that you don't use the ~~~~ when you put your name in, just put your name in, i.e. Roger Lohmann. It will look better on the green template. --D. Matt Innis 19:34, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

New user name

Umm, instead of User:Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D., wouldn't User:Raphael D Thöne have been preferable? I mean, most other editors (including a fair number of professors) don't list their titles... J. Noel Chiappa 16:24, 12 April 2008 (CDT)

We did decide drop the titles. Stephen Ewen has a tool that can change the name of a user. --D. Matt Innis 19:39, 12 April 2008 (CDT)
Good catch, guys! I was so busy reading credentials and checking web pages I missed the fact that his degree was part of the name. I agree completely with this correction.

Dear Roger, I have got your email (thanks for that) and I don't mind dropping the title. I though don't exactly know how to manage that on my own, so I suggest that Stephen Ewen does that for me. All the best, Raphael. ...said Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D. (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2008 (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)

I'll send Stephen this way. --D. Matt Innis 07:47, 15 April 2008 (CDT)


You had several tonight! Congratulations! Give me some more :-) --D. Matt Innis 19:16, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

Romanization Proposal

Hey Roger-- thanks a lot for agreeing to be the third Editorial Council sponsor. I also very much agree with your suggestions about making our Romanization policy as user-friendly as possible, and not just for non-native English speakers. As eminently useful as clear romanization policy is, it's also sort of obscure-- I care about the stuff, but even my eyes start to glaze over when I read about Sanksrit transliteration... Thanks again for the co-sponsorship, Brian P. Long 09:57, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

Thank you.

The Social Capital Foundation

Hi Roger, I wrote an article on The Social Capital Foundation. I wonder whether you could give me some direction. Thanks. Best wishes, Koen Demol 07:14, 22 June 2008 (CDT)

Dear Roger, your suggestions are excellent! I will start working on this as soon as I can. Koen Demol 16:23, 23 June 2008 (CDT)

Dear Roger, I revised the article and I think I met all your suggestions for improvement. You may want to get it on track for approval now. Best wishes, Koen Demol 04:52, 28 June 2008 (CDT)

Agriculture, history

I noticed the link in the template for the version didn't work so I put the version link here and it worked. I guess we have to have something in the article url for it to work. I now see Agriculture, history in the To Approve Category, but nothing else, yet! D. Matt Innis 21:36, 29 June 2008 (CDT)

Hi there

Just thought Write-a-Thon day was a good excuse to say hi, Roger, since I haven't "seen" you for a while. Hope all is well. Aleta Curry 20:53, 2 July 2008 (CDT)

Great Society

Hi Roger, if you'll take a look at the talk page and subsequent changes since placement of the approval template, update the version if you are satisfied and I will protect the version. Of course if you are happy with the version you have approved, I will then protect that version. D. Matt Innis 12:13, 12 July 2008 (CDT)

The Social Capital Foundation : Approval sought

Dear Dr Lohmann, some time ago, I wrote an article on The Social Capital Foundation and I revised it according to your remarks. You announced a probable approval. Since then I have had no news. Could you please advise. Thanks. Koen Demol 15:42, 2 October 2008 (CDT)

Ready for approval?

Dear Roger,

Thank you for your remarks that were very useful to improve further the article.

I read the Social capital entry. The first paragraph is most strange, and is contradicted by the second. It would need to be corrected and I will perhaps rewrite it in a second stage, time permitting.

Going back to the TSCF article, I made a number of changes, some minor and others more substantial. I rewrote the first paragraph on the history of the concept. There are more precisions on Halifan and on Jacobs who indeed seems to have introduced the concept in an urban and neighbourliness context. Later in text I mentioned that the TSCF conception is a more social psychological or mentalistic conception of social capital than most of the others discussed in paragraph 2 or in the social capital entry. I made a slight rectification to indicate that this definition includes the mental disposition (upstream) and the "capital" aspect (downstream), but suggests that the latter cannot be fully understood without reference to the former.

As for the erosion of the social link I removed this sentence but it means that in the industrial countries the link or bond between people becomes increasingly weaker. The social link or bond has been defined by Hirschi (1969) this way: “elements of social bonding include attachment to families, commitment to social norms and institutions (school, employment), involvement in activities, and the belief that these things are important” (p.16).

Koen Demol 22:04, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Roger, the bibliography is added. Best wishes, Koen Demol 17:11, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Roger, any news from the approval process? Koen Demol 15:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I got it! Thanks, Koen, for the nudge on my talk page, and thanks to both of you for your hard work! D. Matt Innis 21:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Roger, thank you for your proficient and constructive help in the redaction of this article. Koen Demol 21:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for the positive input on the subgroup idea. I'm glad this has fired you up and will allow you to be yourself :) Chris Day 15:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


Do you think Daniel Webster is ready for approval? He's in the history and politics workgroups and so are you! This is another one of Richard Jensen's articles, by the way.

I was also wondering about History of scientific organizations and institutions, for which you were the primary author. I think this would be just the kind of thing that Russell Jones might want to work on and maybe approve. Do you think it's ready to go? --Joe Quick 00:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your email. When you're back in town, you might also want to have a look at Oliver Cromwell. He's also in history and politics. --Joe Quick 15:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Roger. Have you had a chance to take a look at either of those articles? Thanks very much. --Joe Quick 03:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Approval of adoption article

Hi Roger,

When you get a chance can you look over the adoption article and provide some feedback on whether it's suitable for approval, or, if not, provide some feedback on what else would be necessary to bring it forward?

Thanks, Anton Sweeney 07:49, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Congrats on Democrat Party (phrase) approval

Don't forget to take a look at the additional changes: Approval D. Matt Innis 00:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Industrial Revolution article (links)

There are almost no links in the approved article Industrial Revolution. Is the only way to add them to go to the Draft article page? James F. Perry 16:20, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

That would be the best thing to do at this point. And when you've added a bunch of links there, let me know and we'll put it up for a new version.
Roger Lohmann 20:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thinking about politics approvals

Shamira Gelbman has recently been confirmed as an editor in the Politics Workgroup. I suggested a few articles that might be appropriate for her to approve but I think she might be a little intimidated by the process. Do you have any articles that you've worked on that might be ready for approval or do you know of any that the two of you could approve jointly? It might be less intimidating for her if you could offer to be a mentor of sorts for her first approvals. Thanks much, Joe Quick 20:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Would appreciate your comments about title change proposal

Roger, please take a look at the Talk page of Coal mining history and let me have your comments on my proposal to change the article title and to re-write the lead-in sentence of the introduction so as to include the actual title of the article. Thanks, Milton Beychok 16:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Roger, see my response to your comments at Talk:Coal mining history. Thanks and regards, Milton Beychok 23:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
See the explanation of the edits/revisions/etc (on the article's Talk page) that I made to the new Coal mining article and its subpages after you created it. Thanks for all your help. Milton Beychok 08:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thought experiment

I'm trying to nail down for myself the distinction between sociology and anthropology, which both study people. Would it be fair to say that sociology is concerned with human behavior (action and interaction) while anthropology concerns itself with human production (physical and cultural)? The point of this thought experiment is to work out whether any of the anthropology articles I've written but can't get approved for lack of anthro editors would be appropriate to approve through the sociology workgroup. In particular, I have in mind Folk saint, El Tío, Tecum Umam, and Milpa agriculture. It seems to me that the first would be most appropriate while the last would be least appropriate, but I'm not sure. What do you think? --Joe Quick 20:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Roger, did you get the email I sent you the other day? --Joe Quick 22:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

See discussion about obscure jargon

Roger, please have a look here at the discussion about a sentence in the Technology Section. Regards, Milton Beychok 21:40, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

New Author here.

I don't know if you were the constable that approved my authorship, but you did send me a welcome note, so I figured I would start asking questions with you. When I signed up I asked to be approved for editorship in my specific field of Aquarium Fish. Seeing as there are no current editors (or even articles for that matter) in the specific subject, I'm wondering why my editorship wasn't approved. I looked at the requirements for editorship and it says that when concerning hobbyist topics (such as aquarium fish) a "professional recognition" isn't required. As I said in my bio I've been raising Aquarium Fish since I was nine years old (ten years ago). I have kept and bred most, if not all, of the commonly available species. I am also dabbling in the oddball varieties. I believe my level of expertise, coupled with the lack of editors in the subject, should secure me a position as an editor for the subject. Thank you.Drew R. Smith 23:51, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Drew, the complete list of Editorial Personnel Administrators is available at Category:CZ Editorial Personnel Administrators. I believe you can contact them all by emailing Personnel(at) Milton Beychok 00:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Like I said, I'm new to Citizendium, as in, this is the first time I've logged on, so I don't know how that relates to my question. Are you saying they are the people to ask about this?Drew R. Smith 00:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, Drew, they are the group to contact ... and Roger is one of that group. Milton Beychok 02:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. I'll check it out and see what they say.Drew R. Smith 03:12, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know I got your email. I guess your logic makes sense, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. ;) Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for replying, and replying thouroughly. I will be contributing a massive amount of (hopefully) quality articles, starting sometime after monday. I can not start now, as I am in the middle of some personal things, but I assure you that, come monday, there will be nothing else occupying my time. Unlike wikipedia, there are no articles in any of the subjects that I wish to write about, so I will have a heyday, and will sincerely enjoy writing them. Cheers. Oh, and by the way, are signatures allowed, like they are in wikipedia?Drew R. Smith 01:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

We need feedback

Roger, please look at This thread in the forums. We need some feedback in that thread. Milton Beychok 06:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Folk saint

I think when I went out of town we lost our momentum on the conversation we were having. If you feel good about including folk saint in the sociology workgroup, could you let me know? Then we'll see about approval. --Joe Quick 17:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Civil rights? Human rights?

Reminded by Shamira's civil rights movement entry, I created an interim entry for civil rights. My intention is to provide a top-level anchor for matters at least in the United States.

I do not know if it would be better to supplement or replace this with an article on human rights. There is an article on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which I created, in part, to give a framework for extrajudicial detention.

While I know several people have been writing on more general civil society and rights movements, I'm hoping to get some help at least on the top-level extrajudicial detention and perhaps interrogation, and, ideally, on the lower-level articles. Note that each has a provision for lower-level national- and period-specific articles. Howard C. Berkowitz 20:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)