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User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 5

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Hourglass drawing.svg Where Aleta lives it is approximately: 04:33
Aleta stops into the forums somewhere between 0630 and 0900, and works on the wiki between about 1200 and 1500, time and weather permitting.


Hi Aleta, just thought I'd stop by and make your day! Hope it's a good one! :-D. Matt Innis 03:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Me too! I had another reason, I just figured out that the hyperlink I had added to your Dog subgroup banner above was to the category page NOT the Dogs Subgroup homepage. I fixed that. I think that hyperlink might have predated a real home page for your subgroup, when I was still tinkering. See my talk page for a more complete explanation. By the way, that moving dog in your Subgroup header was just for a lark, if you want a more static version, maybe with a real dog, let me know. :) Chris Day 03:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Moving dog?!!! I've got to see that!! Where iis it?? D. Matt Innis 03:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
I guess you found it :) Chris Day 03:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep! I love it! Hehe. D. Matt Innis 03:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi right back

Glad to see you both--even though Chris Day was obviously chasing me around the wiki yesterday! Changes happening before I could draw breath! I will go to your page and attempt to understand everything, though my chances are probably as good as those of a sneeze in a hurricane.

I love the dog, moi! I think you're right, now I come to think of it, you were working with the cats first because there was no dog homepage.

Some day, when God's in Her heaven and all's right with the world, I would like a montage with photos/drawings of a whole bunch of different dog breeds, but for now, scampering poochie is just great, thanks! Aleta Curry 22:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ill-defined fuzziness

Yes, very puzzling. However, a quick look in My Contributions showed that I had changed it at Terrier/Catalogs & not at the article itself. Which I have now done. Hope that's cleared up the mystery (wags tail). - Ro Thorpe 23:54, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, great--mystery solved! Thanks, Ro! Aleta Curry 00:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Is this a cosmic hint that I need to make RIM-2 Terrier a blue link, or at least a definition?
Every once in a while I have to ask myself what on earth my friend Howard is talking about. It took me a little while to figure out that a(n) RIM-2 Terrier must be a car, plane or some variety of things that go. Aleta Curry 00:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Things that go boom. First operational U.S. Navy surface-to-air missile.
Oooh! Did the same bunch of geniuses who bought $200 hammers mean to call it a terror??
Nah, just things starting with T, rather like many British warship names, of the same class, all start with the same letter. Three related missiles: Terrier, Tartar, Talos.
Don't know about Australian government tenders, but some of those hammers would have been $20 or so from a tool store. Tool stores, however, aren't willing to fill out the 200 pages of procurement paperwork surrounding the one page of "this is the kind of hammer they want." U.S. government procurement officials often operate on the assumption that it is perfectly fine to spend immense amounts of administrative dollars to be sure that no one gets two cents more than the authorized profit margin.
On the other hand, I did see a $10,000 or so coffeemaker intended for use in a low-flying, all-weather maritime patrol aircraft, and I was actually surprised they got it that cheaply. Look at the coffemaker in a commercial airliner, and how it's built so hot coffee doesn't fly out in turbulence, its thermostat doesn't bother the navigation system, it operates on the odd power supplies in aircraft (there for good reason) etc.
I have told you, I believe, about the Australian Army attack helicopter training simulator? Howard C. Berkowitz 01:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
If you did, I don't remember. Mea culpa. Aleta Curry 02:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Now, if you really want a wagging tail, see AN/ALE-55. To a shipdriver, however, the tail is an antisubmarine warfare tool, about which we still giggle when a sonar engineer's young son referred to the Toad Array Sonar. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
The Army had a video simulator with quite good graphics. Some of the crews, however, decided it was fun to shoot at kangaroos.
Any humane considerations aside, this is really bad for a military crew. They waste ammunition, and fixate on a target. Apparently, the graphics people just had put in static pictures of kangaroos. The training officer decided to convince the crews not to get overconfident about their ability to hit things. Now, it got a little weird.
It would have made more sense just to remove the kangaroo pictures. No. He told the programmers to have them move. Well, the programmers figured as long as they moved, they really didn't have to move like a real kangaroo. Did they have any graphic software written for things that moved? Yep. Infantry. So, they put the infantry squad graphics into the simulator, and just changed the picture from men to kangaroos. They forgot, however, that this was pretty smart infantry software.
As it was described, the helicopter crews, who hadn't been told not to shoot at the kangaroos, went back to the simulator the next week. The infantry software, however, sensed an approaching helicopter. Now, I suspect the crews minds played a few tricks...because they insisted that the 'roo reached into its pouch....
Pulled out a Redeye antiaircraft missile....
And let fly. The Redeye wasn't that good a missile, but the crew got so excited they flew the helicopter straight into the ground. Didn't tell the next crew, who took such violent evasive action that they lost control of the copter. After about a week of this, the crews were indeed trained...never never shoot at a kangaroo. Howard C. Berkowitz 02:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Now, I'd accuse you of telling me a tale, but you really can't make this stuff up! Aleta Curry 02:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I saw your name

... next to the article First Lady of the United States and thought it was talking about you, Aleta Curry, First Lady of Citizendium! D. Matt Innis 03:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Aw, flattery'll do it every time, Matt! Aleta Curry 21:16, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

stars and pipes

See, you can do it :).

Also, re: archiving, this little frill helps you navigate through your archives with the greatest of ease. Chris Day 06:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't quite get it, Chris.
What, you type:
Archive box
and it automatically archives?
Aleta Curry 21:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
No, its so you have an archive box on all your archive pages too. Now you can toggle between the different archive pages easily, as well as back to your current talk page. It's useful if you need to try and find some old conversation, or such. Chris Day 21:54, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, thanks! Aleta Curry 22:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Catalog vs Related Articles

I'm just mulling over where the border is between these two types of subpage. Your Terrier catalog is close to it. Is the border distinguished by how comprehensive the subpage is or by the addition of extra information? These are not rhetorical questions, I really don't know. Regardless, how would the related articles page look for the terrier article? There would be a fair amount of overlap. I should probably take this to the forum, but possibly here is a good place to start the conversation? Chris Day 07:44, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure--have the conversation here, why not?
I've never been clear on this. All I know is that a straight list, with definitions (susing the {{r| template) is Related Articles. That makes sense to me if it's parent and sub topics--sorta. When do htey become catalogs? Got me.
Aleta Curry 21:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


This is what i was thinking of with respect to a masterlist, although the list does not have to be so long or in this format. Dog/Related Articles/Masterlist‎‎

Now this masterlist could be included in all related articles subpages for any dog breed by adding {{:Dog/Related Articles/Masterlist‎}} and we would see the following (see the "Other Related Articles" subsection in each case):

Note that if the lists are edited from any of those subpages it is the 'masterlist' subpage that is actually edited. Thus, the change is replicated to every related articles subpage with a single edit. In other words I would not have to go and make such changes on every single dob breed Related Articles subpage. Clearly this is not ideal but due to the ease of maintaining the list it is preferable. Chris Day 19:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Likewise, see the example of President of the United States of America/Related Articles/Masterlist transcluded on to every different Presidents Related Articles subpage. Again one edit changes every appearance. That saves you 42 distinct edits right there. Chris Day 22:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe the Dog list should be at Dog breed/Related Articles/Masterlist? Chris Day 06:15, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Chris, Is there a way of conditional transclusion, such that "Dachshund" does not appear on Dachshund/Related Articles‎? --Daniel Mietchen 11:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, if every term uses the R template but I would need to modify it. In the case of the dog masterlist , however, I wonder if we would want to use the R template since the list is so long? Chris Day 13:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I just made a change to the R template but I cannot implement it the way I had hoped, i.e. removing the term and the bullet. In its current form the R template adds the bullet automatically but removing it altogether is problematic if it is used in an indented hierarchy. Instead, i just put the link in plain text. See the related articles subpages for the various US presidents (e.g. Jimmy Carter/Related Articles). Any other thoughts on this? I had considered leaving out the article name but a bulleted blank line looks a little odd. Chris Day 16:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The Dogs Masterlist

Okay, I need to do some thinking.

This is a great idea. (I think it began with a discussion about economics?) Sorry, Chris, I haven't read your quoted thread ye that could be it for all I know.

Okay, re: Masterlist of dog breeds. My first reaction is that this should not be the related page masterlist for every dog breed article, if that's what you were thinking.

The related pages master list should have articles like:

  • Dog breed
  • Dog breeding
  • dog reproduction
  • dog group
  • American Kennel Club
  • Australian National Kennel Club
  • Luxating patella
  • dog show
  • Animalier
  • Arthur Wardle
  • Earl family

That sort of thing.

The master list of dog breeds would be a subtopics list at dog? Wouldn't it? That's one for our what-are-related-pages conversation, I guess.

Aleta Curry 22:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

For your pleasure i started a new thread, different from the one I cited above, where this was first discussed. As to the specifics of this example, yes this long list of breeds should probably be at Dog breed/Related Articles/Masterlist to be logically placed. I stuck it in the dog cluster on an impulse.
As for where this list is placed, it can be transcluded anywhere it is needed. It could be in the "Subtopics" section of Dog or Dog breeding or the "Other related articles" subsection of Poodle or Dachshund or Rottweiler. The main point is it can be used in many different places but has only one home.
Your list above could be a different masterlist that could live as as a subsubpage of Dog but be used in the "Other related articles" subsection of Dog breed or Dog breeding. Chris Day 23:05, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I think 'transclusion' is what was hanging me up--that's something computer people made up to mean 'taking a bit of something and sticking it in somewhere else while leaving the original where it was', is it?
So, we can put Dog breed master list anywhere.
Can we also put more than one master list on the same page? I have a feeling the answer is 'yes'. So I can have Dog Breed Master List as a subtopic and also Terrier Family Master List as a subtopic, and Dog Reproduction Master list as a related topic, all on the Related Articles page? Presumably, I could transclude any or all of these to a catalogue page? Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
We can put many different subpages onto a Related Articles subpage. I imagine they will be useful for the subtopic and other related articles subsections. I see less utility for the parent topics. You could transclude to any page such as a catalog but I don't think that would be as useful since they should be distinct. As you mention below. Chris Day 01:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Catlog vs RA subpage 2

Though that might not be so helpful is a catalogue is supposed to be annotated or something. (See "when is a catalog a related page") :) Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

That sounds about right, basically more than a list of definitions. Probably we just don't have any really good examples of catalogs yet.Chris Day 01:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)


Thanks for lending a hand, Chris. Aleta Curry 23:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Mixed breeds

I see where you are coming from with respect to the catalog of mixed breeds. Sounds good to me. One trick that might be useful is that you can create a definition for each breed but it can be a standalone definition (no metadata required). Then the specific page can be a redirect to your mixed breed catlog. i see you already have the redirect in place. I just created the definition page too. Now you can use the {{R}} template to give the following:

  • Jackrat terrier [r]: A hybrid dog created by crossing a Jack Russell terrier with a rat terrier. [e]

You could also create the Jackrat terrier/Related Articles page, again without the need of metadata, if you wanted too. Why bother? It helps establish a rich connectivity between articles even those that exist in catalogs. This improves navigation to content that might otherwise be hidden. Chris Day 05:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Is there a special thing to denote 'no metadata required' when we don't want to have a cluster there, or do I just have to beat everyone else to the punch? Aleta Curry 05:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
There are two subpages that can exist without metadata, /Related Articles and /Definition. One subsubpage can exist without metadata, /Related Articles/Masterlist. All three of these pages can exist on there own but it is likely that they will complement each other and exist along with a redirect at the article page. If someone decides to write a full article instead of a redirect then the metadata would be added and these subpages would immediately be part of the new cluster. Does that answer your question? To clarify, there is nothing special you need to do, the subpages template will detect there is no metadata and add the appropriate category, for example, Category:Definition Only. Chris Day 05:26, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Edit conflict!! I think we just crossed posts--three times! I'm sure you have answered my question; I have to take a break and think about it. Be back later--or tomorrow, after a double shot of--after a rest. Aleta Curry 05:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi there

Hi Aleta, how are you? Thank you for the warm welcome. I kept running into "Server not available" errors on Sunday, but managed to get a very little bit added. Howard has been a godsend in helping me get acclimated here. I'm hoping to add what little bit I can in the coming weeks/months. The freedom of not having to "cite" every single sentence here is a real blessing, and I think a great benefit to new editors. I'll try to be more active in the next get-together ;). I look forward to seeing you around the site. Ched Davis 16:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Spring is sprung least around here. Wildflowers are beginning to bloom in the California desert. Itty-bitty tomatoes are ripening on the vine growing from a pot on my back porch. What kind of cleaning do you envision us doing this week? Bruce M.Tindall 23:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, my windows need doing...
Seriously, on the CZ side, any (or all) of those lists people make, like biographies needed, most requested articles, articles nearing approval, 'please take a look at Foo', anything of the sort.
I should probably contact Chris or David or anyone else with pet peeves, and we can list the suggestions at the WAT page.
Aleta Curry 23:17, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Here's one idea, Move lists to Catalogs.
Have you met the new user Dalton yet? If not, see your Orchid article. Chris Day 23:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Looks great to me; I'd rather see it without a WP notice, though. I left Dalton a note. Aleta Curry 22:15, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Dear Aleta. This text is mostly my own work but also a mixture of sections based on German Wiki and English wiki. I suppose it has been reworked a great deal, furthermore I'll also add more info to it. As I am not completely sure when a text is different enough from another one on WP, would you please compare this one with what is there and tell me what you think? Further than what's there I still need to add some more sections as Production, Culture, Popular genera and Hybrids and considerable enlarge taxonomy section. At last an extensive revision by a native english speaker will be needed too. Dalton Holland Baptista 22:25, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response, Dalton. I think you've given me my first spring clean assignment! Aleta Curry 22:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
(Regarding your recent post on [orchid]s talk) Great, so before you work on the grammar (and a lot of spelling too, I'm afraid) let me finish it, it will take just one or two more days, so I won't spoil again a brand new beautifully fixed text. The morphology and taxonomy sections will be enlarged. The morphology section possibly is the closest to German WP and yet it is the easier one to make better; I still have to fix some things about saprophytic info (this word is not used anymore to orchids now, Oh, I'm feeling old). I'll also add the photos thus you'll have the captions corrections to have fun too. lol. Thank you, Aleta. Dalton Holland Baptista 03:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC) (PS: however, if you are looking for something else to clean I wrote a draft which I intend to abandon to their own fate, so its a goog place to start the chores!) Cheers from the hotest Brazil since 1943 - fall coming.
Another list Uncategorized Chris Day 00:00, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Sunday Laggards

As usually, I am booked for a solid 16-17 hours tomorrow, but I will be active on Sunday to shout out to the other Write-a-Thon Sunday Laggards. Now we just need a section and image on the Write-a-Thon page. A person in repose with a newspaper over his head comes to mind! Have fun tomorrow.

BTW: How is the wireless/highspeed working out for you?

David E. Volk 03:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

As I said to Matt, it's like having an infected tooth pulled!
It's still slow compared to what you people have, but our provider has promised improvements.
Aleta Curry 04:07, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

write-a-thon cleanup

The Write-a-Thon page should be ready for you now. I'll see you there in twelve hours or so when I wake up on Wednesday morning. --Joe Quick 01:23, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Aw, thanks, Joe! Aleta Curry 03:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Woof! Woof!

Hi Aleta, I could not resist starting up Portuguese Water Dog as a quick and dirty stub. You will, I hope, be interested in making your usual magic! --Ian Johnson 17:11, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Citizendium charter drafting commitee nomination

Hi Aleta, You've been nominated by a fellow Citizendium member to be a candidate for election to the Citizendium charter drafting committee.

If you haven't been following the discussion in the forums, we're getting ready to establish a charter for Citizendium that outlines the project's goals, ideals, and basic structure. To get the process moving, we put together a plan for electing a group of Citizens to compose a draft of the charter, which will then be submitted for community review. You can find more about the plan here.

You've been nominated by another Citizen to be a candidate for election to that committee. The next step is up to you: you may either accept or decline the nomination by going here and following the instructions at the top of the page.

If you have any questions, just let me know. --Joe Quick 15:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you should go for it. John Stephenson 03:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Charter drafting nomination

Hi Aleta,
You were nominated by a fellow Citizendium member to be a candidate for a position on the Citizendium charter drafting committee, but you haven't indicated whether you want to accept or decline. To learn more about what the committee is all about, you can go to the page that describes the process. To indicate that you either accept or decline the nomination to participate in the process as a committee member, you should visit the subpage for nominations; there are instructions on what to do on that page.
Thanks much!
--Joe Quick 03:47, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixing archives

I just took out the sliding bars since they seem to be messing up the format of the whole page. Note, that us happening to your talk pages too (small fonts to the left and content is indented in from the left margin). When i took out the sliding bar boxes from my talk page it went back to normal. Chris Day 22:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Been busy

Been desperately busy for a while now, but hope to find more time to pop by.Gareth Leng 09:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

There's been a lot of that going around! Bruce M. Tindall 21:21, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Ooh, don't I know it! Look forward to seeing both of you as soon as it is comfortably possible! Aleta Curry 04:09, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Who's on First?

Aleta, how did you proceed when creating the page? How did you enter the title? See this forum thread to see why I ask this. (And you had difficulties with the metadata, too.) --Peter Schmitt 11:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC) did I proceed?
Well, I drafted this using Microsoft Word, then cut-and-pasted into a CZ start new article space.
The problem with the metadata was that when I was all finished, I got an error message saying something about either the metadata name and the page name did not match, or that the page name was missing from the metadata page.
I rechecked, and didn't see anything wrong, so I asked Chris for help. He helped.
Re the forum thread, I think you're right. I very much doubt that Microsoft is making special keyboards for Australia!
Let's try a little something:

Who'’s on First?

Who's on First?

Who’s on First?

“Who’s on First”? “That’s right!”

"blah blah"

‘’ ‘’

In the first example, the first apostrophe is a 'straight quote' and the second is a 'smart quote or 'curly quote'. I think this is also called a printer's quote, but don't quote me.
Second line is single straight quote, third line is single smart quote.
The fourth line has double curly quotes pasted from MS Word.
The fifth line is douyble straight quotes.
The sixth line is single straight quotes hit twice in succession, space, twice again.
The seventh line is single smart quotes hit twice in succession, space, twice again.
You'll notice that right now I'm typing directly into the CZ window and all the apostrophes look straight. If I use a double quote now what will it look like? "double quotes". This was done using "shift, apostrophe" key and it looks quite different again.
Aleta Curry 22:06, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
How often will you have a title with an apostrophe or quotes? Rarely, I suppose. --Peter Schmitt 00:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Somebody call Houston, 'cause we've got a problem!

Jeez, Louise!

Peter, it's worse than I thought.

In the above example, things were perfectly clear to me as I was typing.

However, once I hit 'save'...well, it's now very difficult to discern.

The formatting all looks very much the same.

If you look very hard, in the first example you can tell that one of the quotes is slightly longer.

Others don't show up at all!

You'll need to go to the EDIT screen to see what I'm talking about!

No wonder Chris couldn't see what to fix!

I can't deal with any of this without coffee. Back in ten.

I'll leave a note at the forum thread.

Aleta Curry 22:11, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

No need to worry, Aleta! Now the cause is known it is easy to avoid it: Do not paste a title into the "Go"-box if it contains quotes or apostrophes, or fix them afterwards. The same is true for links (if they do not work). In the rest of the text this does not matter (unless the mark up for italics or bold has been changed). --Peter Schmitt 23:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Took me a while to get this, but we can reduce our mountain to a molehill. It won't be a problem for old hands, because now we know how to fix it (avoiding is a bit more of a problem for writers). It's basically the same as for italics or bold, if you have them in word processing, you'll have to fix on the wiki. Except that the problem with italics is readily evident, but since the 'apostrophe/quotation' markup doesn't show up, it may be harder to spot. Newbies, especially, will have trouble, I fear. Aleta Curry 00:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Email stuff

Hi Aleta! Are you talking about the Citizendium-L and those type addresses? If so, here is where you will find the links to a lot of them. I haven't signed up for most, but I think I am on the editor one. If that's not what you are talking about, the only one I know of is in your "my preferences" up top right of this page. Let me know if that's it. D. Matt Innis 01:29, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

By the way, your user page is all messed up with the Modern skin, lol :) D. Matt Innis 01:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Matt - that, too. I was actually talking about the executive committee stuff. Do I mean the executive committee? I think I do.

I know my user page is all messed up. It all got centred, quite without my knowledge or permission. What does skin have to do with it??

Aleta Curry 03:27, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I don't know the exec comittee email info, but Hayford was on the committee for awhile, so he might know.
I commented out the TOC box that you had and it seems to fix your user page. There must be something wrong with the code - maybe missing a braket or something..
PS. It sure is great to have you back! D. Matt Innis 12:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
D. Matt Innis 12:14, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I'll contact him.
Re my page: er...thanks...but to me, it looks exactly the same. Evidently other users were seeing gobbledygook that I wasn't.
Aleta Curry 21:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I have 3 images of buckets

Aleta, I just sent you an email about three images I could upload for you: a plastic bucket, a wooden bucket or a metal bucket ... or all three. Please look at your email and respond by email as soon as you can. Milton Beychok 05:38, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi - I just replied.
'respond by email as soon as you can.' easier said than done, but that's moi problem. Please do upload any or all at your convenience. Thanks a bunch! Aleta Curry 05:51, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Uploaded the two images you wanted

All you have to do is place this markup on the article's edit page where you want the images to appear:

{{Image|Wooden Bucket.jpg|right|167px|Add image caption here.}}
{{Image|Plastic Bucket.jpg|right|400px|Add image caption here.}}

You then add the image captions where indicated. You can change the image widths to smaller widths if you wish. You cannot make the widths any larger.

That's all there is to it. Milton Beychok 06:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Exec email

I dunno where you would go to fix that. I think Larry did everything to get me set up originally and I haven't changed anything since then. I tried to send you a message directly the other day but your spam filter rejected it... --Joe Quick 16:11, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Referencing to own Work in CZ

Thanks for the tips. Please see my discussion; and comments are welcome. Lando Leonhardt Lehmann 22:07, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for the CE and help. Feel free to undo what I did as I did not realize you'd done some CE. Your ::help is greatly appreciated.

Mary Ash 23:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

I appreciate the CE and the support. I'm not used to this type of formatting as most of my wiki stuff was ::done at wikiHow which uses a slightly different system for leaving personal messages. Some of the stuff is ::the same and some is not. I'm trying to get the indent down too. Please share tips, if you have time.

Mary Ash 23:57, 25 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash

I quite understand. WP & CZ use the same wiki markup, and once you've been working in a language for six or seven years, you forget how hard it was at the beginning.
I went to have a look at wikihow a couple of days ago (searching for a way to leave you a message, actually) and I took one look at an edit screen and said WTF??!
To indent here at CZ, use the colon on your keyboard, ":" One insertion for every indent.
Hi Mary
Hi Mary
Hi Mary
Hi Mary
In discussions, it is customary to indent one from the last comment, which is why I'm typing four in, since you typed three in.
Sometimes people use the same number of colons every time they reply on a talk page, so that it's clear who's 'speaking'.
Indent your 'signature', too, so that it all lines up, like this:
Aleta Curry 00:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Dogs Workgroup!

Remember this? CZ:Dogs Workgroup. I'm assuming that is now either abandoned or a subgroup, so you may wish to get it deleted! --Chris Key 20:36, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Meow! (and arfmeow from Cody, who is only a cat in appearance, but a loyal member of the dog pack). I've had several dats and cogs. --Howard C. Berkowitz 21:18, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I remember! We have Fluffy, who puts manners into the dog pack! We are also members of the dog pack, apparently. Aleta Curry 21:15, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I think it'll depend, Chris, on what eventually happens with groups and subgroups. No, I didn't remember the page, but *do* want the notes saved! Thanks! Aleta Curry 21:14, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Mulling Options

Thanks Aleta for all your support. I'm mulling my options after making a complete arse of myself here at Citizendium. I haven't decided if I will continue posting here or move along. I do have a book I've been meaning to write, and I may give it a go. Just wanted to say thanks for being kind!Mary Ash 02:18, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I wouldn't say you've done that. Everyone else is opinionated, why shouldn't you be? I'm in the middle of a collaborative book right now (very big groan) and I'm running out of time.
I don't think you should leave, unless you feel you must.
Aleta Curry 02:58, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


Noticed you like dogs. I'm currently dogless but I have three cats. The dog I loved the most was a Malinois mix. I found her at the animal shelter and they described her as a miniature German Shepherd. She wasn't. I found out later from our AKC club she was a Mal Mix. I used to help with dog shows and learned how to help with obedience. Mary Ash 02:22, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


I've twice tried to send you an email but it always comes back -- has your address changed? Hayford Peirce

Yes, sorry. I did update my CZ preferences (I think) but I'll send you mail now. Aleta Curry 04:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


Sure. I love critters of all kinds. My first cat rescue was a Russian Blue. BTW if you can find any information about Australian bred Russian Blues that would be a big help. The breed standard is different. I like the Australian bred Russian Blues so much better. They are more apple heads than wedges, if I remember right. Mary Ash 00:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Aleta!

For now I'll wait on uploading photos from any source such as Wikimedia or Flickr. I will only upload public domain photos clearly stating work by the US Government. I did that for the dove article but I was able to find a clearly named photo for the nest photo. That photo was from Wikimedia. I wanted to upload our photos of Mourning dove eggs but couldn't find them. We used to have a nest on the satellite dish where the nest was located. We took all kinds of good Mourning dove photos. And if you check the forums you will realize my tenure here will probably be short. Mary Ash 21:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Russian Blue

I think it would appropriate if you modified or removed this comment. The article is about cats, not the behaviour of Citizendium members. While the phrase you should get out more may be a common phrase, it could take on a very different meaning if you were to say it to someone who, for example, had limited mobility and was unable to get out more. Either way it is directed at an author rather than the content of the article and could be misinterpreted as antagonistic, even if that were not your intent.

As to your specific point, a quick Google search would have shown the name "Flor de Azul" used only with reference to a 'cattery' - as you will know the burden of discovering the appropriate image details falls upon the person uploading the image, and this fact could have been easily discovered by the uploader. David Finn 23:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Look, David, it is not just a common phrase, it is a very common phrase, and we are all adults.
That talk page has engendered a ridiculous expenditure of time and energy, and I am not going to continue to engage on this issue. Comment changed.
Aleta Curry 00:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


Somtimes the simple answers are the best! D. Matt Innis 02:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I know - like, this didn't occur to me yesterday. Embarrassing, or what? Aleta Curry 06:37, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Commas, American Revolution, and Allies in Australia

Yes, I think you rephrased the naval history of the American Revolution correctly, and the article name should change appropriately.

Since it does involve Australia, I'd like your opinion on where I used a comma (and anything else), as in Central Bureau, Southwest Pacific Area, and Allied Intelligence Bureau, Southwest Pacific Area (latter is just a start). My thinking there was that the comma is appropriate because these organizations are subordinate to a specific organization, which feels different than the "X, Battle of" that is covered by the sorting fields. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Hola, Howard. On the clear understanding that I know next to nothing about military matters, your comma use make sense in good, clear English. Aleta Curry 23:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Sing a Song of Dynasties

Hi, Aleta. Thanks for that edit on "Song Dynasty." You and I must share the same peeve (which I inherited from my wife, a historian of China) -- "the dynasty" is a ruling family and its governmental apparatus, not the period of time during which it existed, which would be the "Song period" or "era."

I hadn't even been aware that there was an article on the Song. So thanks for bringing that to my attention too.

Maybe your edit will inspire me to finally get around to editing "China" and starting a new article on the Ming dynasty, er, Ming era. Bruce M. Tindall 18:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey Bruce! Nice to hear from you! You back? (Say 'yes' please please.)
It's not actually China, but English that brings out the peeves in me! I was actually rather lacking in confidence on that edit, not having had any Chinese history since I was an undergrad, and that only a couple of courses, so thanks!
And yes, you *should* get around to doing some editing on all things China, that would be wonderful.
Aleta Curry 22:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
There's probably grist here for some style guides for history. For example, Japan has only had the Yamato Dynasty, but a succession of periods, in which there are eras for the indvidual emperors or shoguns.
While it was mostly the Romanov Dynasty in Russia, some argue that Tsardine would be a better term than Tsarevitch for a prince in the succession. --Howard C. Berkowitz 22:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Aleta: Yes, you did it; I am at this moment rewriting the first several thousand years or so of the China history article (which currently consists of that "Dynasty followed dynasty..." sentence which even its author begged to have edited as soon as she put it into the article), which should get us up to the Zhou. I have a sandbox called "SBChina" if you want to see what I've done so far.
Howard: Maybe we should put the 1,100 pages of Sir Endymion Wilkinson's "Chinese History: A Manual" online. [Insert pained smiley here.] The book contains a lot of different things -- it's a practical handbook for professional researchers telling them all the different kinds of sources that exist, where to find them, etc. -- but it has very detailed prescriptions for how to refer to dynasties, periods, reigns, emperors, minority peoples, Chinese calendrical dates, blah, blah, blah. It's very useful to me in my copyediting job. If somebody (who would that be?) could somehow boil down or paraphrase the most relevant parts without violating copyright, then yeah, it could serve as a standard for CZ writing about China. Bruce M. Tindall 23:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking a little more broadly than China, although mostly about Japan. There are probably some standards about dynasty, period, era, reign, etc., that might be general, or at least beyond one culture. --Howard C. Berkowitz 23:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Sounds like it could be helpful, but don't look at me! Aleta Curry 06:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Our Lord the King

Dagnabbit! (as we say here in the American West, which you probably know from watching Bugs Bunny vs. Yosemite Sam cartoons.) I can't find my copy of "The Boy King," a recent biography of Edward VI, but the author thereof has a story about the relative illiteracy and ignorance of a great swath of the English clergy during Edward's time, including a story of some country parson who thought that the text you just wrote an article about was called "the Lord's Prayer" because it "was written by our Lord, King Edward." Well, he was a rather precocious kid. Bruce M. Tindall 00:44, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Ha! We just found a framed certificate in our village archives; long story short it was signed 'in the year of our Lord...' so there we were trying to figure out the date; come to find out it was 'the year of our Sovereign Lord, King George'...! Aleta Curry 01:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
A variant from the days of mandatory school prayer in the U.S.: I got some very strange looks when, around age 8 or 9, I started discussing the theology associated with the deity, Halowed. I had heard it as "Our Father, who art in heaven, Halowed be thy name." Howard C. Berkowitz 02:02, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

You might enjoy reading this

I posted my comments concerning the human animal bond. The story I posted is true. See: [[1]] Mary Ash 02:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Immaculate pedantry, yay!

I just spotted your sentence on the confusion about "immaculate conception." Woo-hoo! I had to correct a label on a painting in an art museum a few years ago with regard to that. (No, I didn't vandalize it, just wrote to the European-paintings curator, who was very embarrassed and promised to fix it.) Just yesterday some journalist (in the NY Times, no less) made the same mistake. But because he did so in the context of making a sarcastic remark about the now-defunct(-and-not-a-moment-too-soon) comic strip "Cathy" I felt that I should cut him some slack. Bruce M. Tindall 23:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course, it's easily confused just because of the name. It's the sort of error that is so commonplace that people can make you second guess yourself. Had someone say to me recently, 'I have to disagree with you, Aleta, the Immaculate Conception is...(the Virgin Birth)'. I had to stop and think, wait, am I wrong? (as if! ;) )
Aleta Curry 23:49, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
Wait a minute! Cathy's gone?! Aleta Curry 23:55, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
As of last Sunday, I think. I won't include a spoiler for the surprise ending. But you can read the final strip and various supercilious remarks about it at the Comics Curmudgeon's website (! Bruce M. Tindall 00:27, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
The first chapter of Robert Heinlein's book Stranger in a Strange Land, about the birth and early life of the protagonist, is, as I remember, called "His Maculate Conception" Howard C. Berkowitz 00:09, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Groan! - Hee hee hee. Aleta Curry 00:14, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
One of the single most famous plays in the whole history of American professional football took place about 35 years ago in which the losing team, with about 10 second left in the game (a championship game yet) threw a desperation pass *far* down the field -- the ball came down, hit someone, bounced around in the air for a while, from one guy to another, never touching the ground (which would have ruled it dead), and it finally came to rest in the hands of one of the teammates of the guy who had thrown the ball. He ran into the end zone for a winning touchdown and the championship -- with no time left on the clock. The entire sequence of events was instantly proclaimed, and has been known as ever since, The Immaculate Reception. Hehe.... Hayford Peirce 01:23, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
Oh, now that's good! Heeeeeee! Aleta Curry 02:52, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Going cold turkey

Hi, Aleta, could you take a look at: and offer your considered opinion when you have a moment? Many thanks! Hayford Peirce 22:10, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


You can see my Juan Williams comments if you like.Mary Ash 21:48, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Eastern Orthodox Church

Just to let you know I've invited the Ombudsman. Peter Jackson 09:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

You've invited the Ombudsman to what and why? Aleta Curry 09:21, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Yer song, myte

Hey, that's a great one! Well done, cobber! (Do they have cobberesses, down there?) (PS, is it sung to the tune of the George Jones song, "These are a few of my favorite lies"? Hayford Peirce 16:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know that George Jones song, Hayford, so I can't say yay or nay. I'm nuts about R&H though, so when next I see you, we can have a sing-a-long! Aleta Curry 21:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
That would be Some Enchanted Evening, all right! You can hear a little of the George song at: If you had high-speed internet, which I believe you don't, I could email you an MP3 attachment of it.... Hayford Peirce 21:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, and full of Happy Talk. Would make me feel Younger than Springtime! Aleta Curry!
Well, I certainly agree that There Is Nothin' Like Dame! Even though for the last dozen years it's mostly been a case of This Nearly Was Mine.... Hayford Peirce 23:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Aw, really? You can tell Aleta, Dites Moi! Aleta Curry 23:14, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
You mean If I Loved You? Well, it would certainly be about as long as the Soliloquy.... Hayford Peirce 23:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Two of My Favourite Things! Aleta Curry 23:42, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
"Then take me before a quorum of the Editorial Council and let me be mediated by the hiiiiighest Ombuuuuuuudsman of aaaaaaaaaall!" (Or: That was a clambake; the niceness -- a word never spoken by Cantabrigians over the age of three -- of it will be determined by a modified Northern Irish New Zealand All-Terrain-Vehicle voting system to be determined by referendum in 2011.) Bruce M. Tindall 23:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

If music be the food of disambiguation, play on....

I'd have put this on the "Epiphany" talk page but by a Catch-22, er, Catch-12, there shouldn't be one until this is answered, but:

Should we have a disambiguation page with "Epiphany (Christianity)" and "Epiphany (literature)"?

I thank you and Mr. Joyce thanks you, at least one of us incomprehensibly. Bruce M. Tindall 22:50, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention Mr Shakespeare! I believe we should have Epiphany. We also need Epiphany (disambiguation), which will have
You may recall that naming conventions have caused some skirmishes and have not been resolved to *anyone's* satisfaction. As they are of primary interest to me, I will ask the EC if we can take this up as a matter of priority.
Aleta Curry 00:46, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I do reacall that somebody recently objected to having "X" take readers directly to an article called "X" that then had the "dambigbox" template on top that said "This article is about X the blah-blah; if you want other X things go to 'X (disambiguation)'." On the other hand, there are I think several articles that already do this, and The Other Place does this a lot too. I can see that it might be the right thing to do in some circumstances, but others evidently think it should never be done, and I am happy to let the EC decide. Bruce M. Tindall 01:25, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
By the way, once this page gets going, please don't let me forget to add something about the traditional Twelfth Night celebrations held on the Outer Banks islands of North Carolina, especially in the town of Rodanthe, which has gained attention recently by being named in the title of a popular novel (Nights in Rodanthe). Nowadays I suppose they do it for tourism, but within (my) living memory it was still celebrated as "Old Christmas" for real (because that was the date on which Christmas fell in the Old Style calendar before the UK conformed to the Gregorian New Style). Bruce M. Tindall 01:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Really? Sounds very interesting, no lie. 'Rodanthe' is also a Clarice Cliff pattern, as luck would have it. Aleta Curry 02:11, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Who or what is Clarice Cliff? Howard C. Berkowitz 22:11, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
  • Clarice Cliff [r]: British pottery designer, famous for her Art Deco era patterns on tableware. [e]
Aleta Curry 20:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

No better place on earth than camping on the Outer Banks :) Except maybe living in the Outback! D. Matt Innis 01:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

How about a 7,000-sq.foot, sound-proofed penthouse apartment with basement parking for a couple of Rolls on the Champs-Elysee? I'd do that anytime -- as long as my mistress would pay all the expenses, including take-out from the local three-star restaurants, picked up by the liveried chauffeur and handed over to the Butler for serving.... Hayford Peirce 01:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Haha, you might just have me beat with the mistress :) D. Matt Innis 02:01, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
No point in living on the Champs-Elysees unless you have at least one mistress! Hayford Peirce 03:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
If she beats Matt, Mistress would be the proper form of address. Howard C. Berkowitz 05:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Is there no limit to men's egos? Women with all that don't want to be some schlub's mistress, if she can buy anything she'd buy a toy boy who's 30 and a real looker - as of course I'm sure you all are...(lookers, I mean, I know you're all a tad over 30!) Aleta Curry 08:49, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Thus why I'm still camping! D. Matt Innis 12:12, 5 November 2010 (UTC)


On User:Aleta Curry/header you set the entire table to be center'd. This is why you can't get rid of it. --Chris Key 04:33, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Chris. Now one day when I have time to play, I'll figure out how to centre just part of it! Aleta Curry 07:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Religion and science fiction

I'd very much appreciate any comments or contributions, for which you have time, at religion and science fiction. Teresa Jusino's work is excellent in the introduction, and of course, there's a great deal of gender-related issues in science fiction -- probably worth its own article. Nevertheless, one always much watch for testosterone overload. Howard C. Berkowitz 19:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Star Trek

Cleaned up Star Trek: the Next Generation; TOS mentioned there although it probably should be in the top-level article as well. Does that answer your question?

Incidentally, have you read any of the Honor Harrington series?

Howard C. Berkowitz 18:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your wellcome

Still there is so much more to writte about Cervantes and his works... At least I found something to start with. I had no idea aout the existance of Man of la Mancha, learning, learning, that's why I love working in this kind of webs. I will keep it up! See you around. Bye and again , thank you.--Guillermo Velasco Rico 14:08, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the smile

Read your Springtime for Hitler brief. Made me smile as remembering the movie made me lauigh. Mary Ash 03:46, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope you like the decorative painting

I hope you like the decorative painting I added to your decorative arts article. I painted the seascape using Jo Sonja acrylic paint on canvas board. The painting pattern was traced from Priscilla Hauser's Little Landscapes book. Mary Ash 06:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Mary. I've moved this to painting. Please see the talk page for the explanation. Aleta Curry 07:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
See my talk page comments.Mary Ash 14:17, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't have anything handy but here's some links to dolls I am working on or have finished. You can use the photos but copyright remains to me. They are not to be shared i.e. copyright license only.
I added a rosemaling image to the article. That should take care of it. Hope I helped. Mary Ash 16:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Aleta Curry 23:03, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoever sees this first - Archive! Help!!

To whoever sees this first:

  1. I notice my archive box is gone.
  2. I need to archive this page, it's too long.

Can anyone help?

Aleta Curry 23:06, 12 January 2011 (UTC)