User talk:Stephen Ewen: Difference between revisions

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<small>*[[:Category:Help requests]]</small>
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==Thanks==
Thanks muchly Steve, nice to pop my head 'round the door! [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 21:15, 13 February 2008 (CST)
 
==Follow-up==
Thanks Stephen. I really appreciate your effort. I'll get started on the uploading tomorrow and start adding more to the article subpages as well. The sound files idea sounds excellent. [[User:Meg Ireland|Meg Ireland]] 03:11, 15 February 2008 (CST)
 
==Please delete an image I uploaded==
 
Stephen, I uploaded earlier today [[:Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png]]. The I found that the image had a flaw as well is being mis-named (it should be Perkin ... not Perkins). So I uploaded this corrected, re-named version [[:Image:Perkin Triangle Distillation Setup.png]].
 
I drew both of the above versions myself and licensed both of them as PD-new. They are similar (but far from being exactly the same) to the image we tried to upload from Commons but could not, because the Wikipedian who drew it declined to give his real name.
 
Could you please delete [[:Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png]], which is the flawed and misnamed version? Thanks in advance. - [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 02:03, 16 February 2008 (CST)
 
:Done.  I've had in the back of my mind to create a really nice 3-D image of that, but am not sure I will find the time but hope to.  If you have a really large version of that image, send it to me by email so I don't have to strain as much should I find time to give it a go.  You are a pretty amazin' fellow, by the way.  :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:11, 16 February 2008 (CST)
 
::Stephen, thanks for being so prompt. That image is 311 x 471px and if my 85-year old eyes can see it easily, your eyes should have no problem. In any event, the image as it now stands is perfectly adequate. Thanks again, - [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 12:36, 16 February 2008 (CST)
 
==Symbols image==
Hey Stephen. There was a discussion about this on Wikipedia. Apparently the symbols are considered public domain because the symbols have existed for some considerable centuries before they were reused by members of Led Zeppelin. The exact authorship is unknown. [[User:Meg Ireland|Meg Ireland]] 16:48, 17 February 2008 (CST)
 
:Well, look at it from two angles.  Angle one: let's assume the individual symbols are PD.  However, ''in that combination'', a derivative work of PD materials, they ''may'' be trademarked, just as is the combination of symbols that make up "Led Zeppelin" (each letter of that name is PD, no?).  Angle two, let's assume the individual characters are not copyrightable.  That still does not mean the combination, the derivative work, is not copyrightable. 
 
:Anyone can take public domain materials and create a derivative work from them, and that work is copyrightable if it has sufficient originality.  The severable PD items would remain PD, but not the creative derivative work that uses them.  Which is the case here?  Beats me!  And I don't think its worth researching and asking Atlantic.  Hence, I don't think it wise to ''assert'' it as "public domain". 
 
:I added some more clarifications in the notes section of the image.
 
:[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 19:12, 17 February 2008 (CST)
 
== Would appreciate your comments ==


'''NOTE:''' If you ask me a question on a point of policy and so forth and someone else replies, you can assume the reply is accurate unless I add a comment after a day or so. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:07, 30 April 2007 (CDT)  
Stephen, if you have the time or the inclination, please take a look at the list of articles created on my user page. Am I overdoing it? Or does CZ think "the more, the merrier"? I would appreciate any comments you care to offer. - [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:16, 18 February 2008 (CST)


<small>*[[:Category:Help requests]]</small>
:Have a ball, Milton. [[Image:Crystal ksmiletris.png|18px]] [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 00:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)
{{archive box|auto=long}}


== CZ Photography pages ==
== Time cover ==
I see that Prof. Jensen has put a Time cover into the 2008 Presidential article with a justification that reads: "fair use Category Five: Book, periodical, and disc covers, and promotional posters, comic strips, editorial cartoons, and closely similar". (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election) I wasn't aware that CZ had authorized this sort of usage. I'm all for it, of course, as I have a bunch of Time covers that I would like to use in some of the articles I've worked on. As I recall, some time ago you nixed my use of a Time cover until we tried to get authorization from Time mag. They sent us an email saying we could use it for $1000 or some such. You resent an explanation and, I think, we never got a reply.  So, what is your take on the present use? [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 10:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)


Hey, remember your idea about thatWell, I just uploaded a really cool photo of some macaws that I found on flickr and while I was filling out the template, the author's name struck me as familiar. I did a search and sure enough, it was the same person who took the lead photo for the article about the Tío. 
:Jumping the gun, is heSee [[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy]]. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:04, 18 February 2008 (CST)


I'm starting to think that photography pages would be really good to have, both as a way to draw in people like Mr. Jason Devitt and as a way to point users to sources of really good images. Did that conversation ever go anywhere? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 15:54, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
::I dunno.  You tell *me* -- I've got a bunch of Time covers just waiting to be used.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 13:10, 18 February 2008 (CST)


:It has not gone anywhere, except that the EIC said that upon first view he thought it was a great idea. Let's do what it takes to refine the idea and move it forward!  :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:10, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
:::If it were me, I'd go get after him for jumping the gun. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:18, 18 February 2008 (CST)


::Okay. I finished two papers today and have another one to write for Wednesday, but I should be able to pitch in this weekend or next week. 
::::I'm just an innocent bystander seeking elucidation.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 13:25, 18 February 2008 (CST)


::BTW, do you see any beans in [http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=711812825&size=o this picture]It looks like just corn and squash to me. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 20:54, 22 October 2007 (CDT)
:::::Stephen, I too would appreciate knowing whether I may use magazine and/or book cover images in articles, without seeking authorization from publisher.  Also: If I request permission for a scientific journal article or book illustration, can I offer that it cannot be re-used by others but will only be used for the article specified. And if so, how do I protect the illustration from re-use in an otherwise CC-by-sa article?  --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 14:06, 18 February 2008 (CST)


:::I see no beans. :-( [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:05, 22 October 2007 (CDT)
::::See [[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy]]. On the other matter, check out [[CZ:Upload-Wizard]], the section "From a copyright holder who has given me written permission to use his or her work".  Maybe test it out by uploading  [[Image:Testing - 1, 2, 3,4.jpg]].  Things get really well labeled to avoid CC-by-sa confusion there.  :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:34, 18 February 2008 (CST)


== access to test wiki ==
== Re [[Life/Draft]] ==


How do I get access to that? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 19:52, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
Stephen, thanks for tidying up the images in [[Life/Draft]]. Gareth Leng happy with my responses to his long list of critiques and prepared to approve replacing [[Life]] with the draft version (see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Life/Draft#Thanks_Anthony).  I've asked Chris Day to set up the draft version for approval if he agrees with Gareth. If so, will you look in and consider adding your approval.  Thanks.  --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 13:55, 18 February 2008 (CST)


:Replied off-wiki. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 19:55, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
:I can look in and add my ''encouragement'' as an author. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)


::Do you know where index.php is located on the server? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:49, 23 October 2007 (CDT)
==CZ:Recipe==
Please have a look at: [[CZ:Proposals/Ad_hoc]] ([[CZ:Proposals/How_should_we_classify_and_index_recipes%3F]]) and please give your comments. Today is supposed to be the last day before it goes to the next step. However, there hasn't been any discussions on it. What do I do next? [[User:Supten Sarbadhikari|Supten Sarbadhikari]] 02:43, 19 February 2008 (CST)


:::NoEric might be able to help.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:26, 23 October 2007 (CDT)
:Supten, you might use discretion and increase the period for length of discussionAt the time that proposal was initially made, no one really knew how to work the system, least of all the proposerA lot ''still'' aren't sure. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:48, 19 February 2008 (CST)
::Second.  Definitely.  That's only fair.  That was one of the very first proposals, and I for one still don't have my head completely around this.  [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 14:44, 19 February 2008 (CST)


== Flickr images ==  
==Hobbies==


Regarding [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Image:Albanian_Church.jpg&diff=100192277&oldid=100192200 this]: 1.) "Berat" is the name of the province where the church illustrated is found and the title of the image, not a pseudonym.  2.) The image was first published at http://www.beerscooter.co.uk (the UK), and ''then'' at flickr (the US). Hope this is enough! --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 21:30, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
"My hobbies are...", or, "I enjoy da-da-da and ta-ta-ta as hobbies..." or "As a hobby, I do this." <code>;)</code> --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 15:10, 19 February 2008 (CST)
:P.S. Please forgive any mistakes; I am new here ;-) --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 21:33, 21 October 2007 (CDT)


No worries.  :-) Well, except all photos at http://www.beerscooter.co.uk ''are hosted at flickr'' and hyperlinked into the U.K. page.  There is no evidence of this photo even existing now at the U.K. site.  Neither is there evidence of it existing there since it was first indexed by The Internet Archive http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.beerscooter.co.uk from it's first crawling in Aug 13, 2004 to now. Kindly re-add the U.S. as the country first published in unless there is some evidence I am missing.  This info is important for far into the future in determining when the photo will enter the public domain. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:08, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
==''Driving'' manual==
:Oh. Well, thank you for your help, and sorry for the mistake. Happy editing! --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 08:12, 22 October 2007 (CDT)
Steve, why don't you propose (and drive) another proposal on ''Driving'' proposals? :-) [[User:Supten Sarbadhikari|Supten Sarbadhikari]] 01:06, 20 February 2008 (CST)


== That's pretty cool ==
:Can you make a proposal for that first? :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:59, 20 February 2008 (CST)


Stephen, Stephen--he's our man...
== Deleting an article and renaming another ==


If he can't do it, no one can!
Stephen: The following too technical for me. 


(Now all we need is the date)
I wish to delete http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:How_to_submit_articles_in_word_processor_format.
[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 22:55, 22 October 2007 (CDT)


== advice please? ==
And I wish to rename http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Email_us_an_article_in_word_processor_format using the proper naming convention for CZ: type articles.


Greetings!
Will you do those for me. Those involved have no disagreement.  Thanks in advance. 


I left a note on [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User_talk:Larry_Sanger&curid=100003368&diff=100195468&oldid=100194755 Larry Sanger's page]. but since you are online, and we so kind as to fix my wpauthor tag, maybe I could ask your advice too.
I may have to change the link on Main Page after renaming http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Email_us_an_article_in_word_processor_format.  --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 19:34, 20 February 2008 (CST)


I wrote a note [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,1322.0.html here, in forum-space], concerning porting, and adapting to citizendium's standards GFDL material that was largely written by me on the wikipedia.
== Well, we can't please 'em all ==


How do I find out if it would be welcome here?
Think maybe [[User:Yechiel Robinson|this fellow]] is having a bad day? [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 04:10, 22 February 2008 (CST)


Cheers! [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 17:11, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
== Problem with Daniel Mietchen entry on Editors list ==
Hi Stephen, [[User:Daniel Mietchen]] is incorrectly listed on the page of Editors under the "U" category and I can't seem to edit that particular page. He tried to email the editors but was rejected when his name was not found.  Is this something you can fix and correspond with Daniel regarding the fix afterwards?  Many thanks. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]]


:Hi George. http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:How_to_convert_Wikipedia_articles_to_Citizendium_articles is pretty much all you needAny questions just let me know. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:51, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
:You can see the fix [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User%3ADaniel_Mietchen&diff=100274419&oldid=100274329 here] - not sure how to ever automate that.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:11, 22 February 2008 (CST)


==Photo rights query==
Thanks Stephen! [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 13:47, 22 February 2008 (CST)


Joe Quick asked me the following: As far as photos go, it looks like everything is copyrighted, which makes sense, since so few people have actually been given access to the bones.  It looks like most of the news services have been making still images from the 3d moveable image [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/kennewickvr.html here] and I really like the shot of the scientists leaning over the skeleton [http://www.friendsofpast.org/kennewick-man/events/taph-10.html here] - do you think we could use them under fair use? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 17:51, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
:BTW, one can always [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Mietchen+&fulltext=Search search for someone's last name]. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:43, 22 February 2008 (CST)


I think this is more of a constabulary question than an editorial one?
I had no problem finding him on the list, but apparently the moderator of the Editor email list did. :) [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]]


[[User:Lee R. Berger|Lee R. Berger]] 02:09, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
== Buck Owens ==


:Copyright violations are a constabulary issue.  [[CZ:Fair Use Policy, Media|Fair use is not a settled matter at CZ]] but it is a good bet we will take an overall rather conservative approach to it.  Generally, we want to avoid fair use as much as possible, and when it is invoked it should be neccesary for an article and well-justified. Beyond certain categories of use that are very safely fair use, determining uses beyond them should primarily be an issue for media specialists and editors to decide under policy guidelines (just like it is in meatspace), in my view. 
Can you check out this article - [[Draft:Buck Owens]]I have no idea what's going on there. --[[User:Todd Coles|Todd Coles]] 22:25, 23 February 2008 (CST)
:It was a strange, fannish article, with many strange features that we didn't know what to do with (the original author disappeared) and we moved it into the discussion area to wait while we waited to see if anything else would happen to it. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 23:13, 23 February 2008 (CST)


:The best way forward in the instant case is to first try to find free images that would adequately substitute for the fully copyrighted ones. Absent that, try to find out the provenance of the fully copyrighted images and seek the neccessary permissions, while keeping records of each of those efforts.  Sometimes it is as easy as an email, sometimes not.  If those measures fail, ''then'' place the issue of fair use on the table for consideration.
::Sounds like a reasonable move. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:14, 23 February 2008 (CST)


:[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:28, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
== Did I do this one right? ==


::In this particular case, there simply aren't any free images and there aren't likely to be any made any time soon. Only a few dozen people have ever even seen the skeleton. Use by permission is an option, but considering the politics around Kennewick Man, I think the article should be approvable before we go asking around. Fair use was my short-term solution to brightening up the article. Should we just hold off until the article (which is currently being reworked somewhat) is in good shape? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 02:54, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
The process for uploading such images seems to have become awfully complicated...
[[:Image:Bessemer_process_1889.gif]]
--[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 13:03, 25 February 2008 (CST)


:::I think the best strategy is to start the by permission ball rolling now, mentioning that the images will not be placed in the article until it is complete and approved. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:32, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
:That's because that category of image lacks a section at the Upload Wizard, where its ''very'' easy. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:33, 25 February 2008 (CST)


::::BTW, what's your email nowadays?  I got a bounce-back.  Send me one. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:35, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
::Well, the upload wizard and associated process actually made the whole process much harder ''because'' it doesn't address such cases.  Will it be an option there sometime in the future?  I hope so.


:::::Also, can you show me an example or two of a news service using a still of the 3D figure and the bones? That'll help unravel this. If they are using small still under fair use, that bolsters tingsThe info at the WP page is not helpful in this regard. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:42, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
::Anyway, thanks for touching things up.  Did you read the permission emailThey asked for the credit line to read a very specific wayAre you sure we shouldn't follow their instructions? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 14:25, 26 February 2008 (CST)


The most straightforward place to find images and get permission to use images of the sculpture is from Dan McCool http://www.coolbreezephotography.comSee the bottom of the page and images [http://www.triartgallery.com/index.php?ID=28 here].   [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:23, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
Seems like they confused a credit line with a full citation; the latter is at the image page and can be cited int he article. And yes,  plans are for a section for that upload typeIt will have the same level of automation as [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:Upload&&uselang=bypermission&wpUploadDescription={{Image%20notes%20bypermission%0A%7CDescription%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7CAuthor%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7CDate%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7CSource%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7CCountry%20first%20published%20in%20=%0A%7CCopyright%20holder%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7CNotes%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A%7COther%20versions%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20=%0A}} this] (you might try an dummy upload with it using [[:Image:Testing_-_1%2C_2%2C_3%2C4.jpg]] to check it out). [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 15:10, 26 February 2008 (CST)


:Also, [http://www.triartgallery.com/contact.php see this].  They apparently have been given ''non-exclusive rights'' to reproduce the sculpture, given the language they use.  They may be quite willing to let us use a few images in exchange for those bargaining chips of credit lines in articles and links to their site on the image upload page.  How about [http://www.triartgallery.com/images/pages/28-2.jpg this]?  I'll take that any day under by permission terms over a tiny screenshot under fair use that's the same as WP.  :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:31, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
== Talk links in signatures ==


::The connection to Dan McCool isn't immediately obvious to me but that big shot would be good. I wonder if any of those bronze sculptures have ever sold... --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 04:40, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
Well, I ''was'' going to ask you how to do this, but I see from a posting further up the page that this has been disabled. Sigh. Why, if you don't mind my asking - was it because people were getting excessively 'cute' with their signatures? I find that talk link very useful (as do many), so is there any chance that someday the software could be mod'd to allow just that option (as a checkbox, like "Raw signatures) - "Add link to talk page in signature", or something like that? [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 16:24, 25 February 2008 (CST)


:Oh, probably some have sold.  They'd have not gone into the costs without knowledge of a market.
:I was going to do something fancy too; guess the kibosh is on it. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:25, 25 February 2008 (CST)


:Clearly, McCool was given access to the materials by the gallery so he could take photographs. (BTW, this means the fair use claim at WP is null and the image would be deleted if certain elements were informed of this, but I am not going there)
::Sounds like a neat idea....  Feature requests can be addressed to bugs@citizendium.org and to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:28, 25 February 2008 (CST)


:Given all the above, here is where I would become comfortable with a fair use claim over the sculpture in the article.  See  http://www.triartgallery.com/download/KennewickManBrochure.pdf and consider how it and similar materials might be used.  This sculpting seems very clearly important--very, very clearly so.  Include an entire section, at least a few paragraphs about the sculpting of Kennewick Man by Chatters and McClelland including criticisms of it (yes they exist, even if only because it looks like Captain Jean-Luc Picard), and a fair use claim depicting their clay sculpture ([http://www.triartgallery.com/images/pages/28-2.jpg this one], just slightly shrunk) would become strong, in my view. And note how requiring a strong fair use claim would add significant value to this article--the whole field of modeling figures from remains is quite, quite controversial, and this is, in fact, a certain instance of art and its artists and their genre that we would be discussing and commenting on.  But to just illustrate the article as lede image, I'd say no, no way, not under fair use.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 05:14, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
== Approval nomination process? ==
::Sounds about right.  Do you have any interest in writing that section? I'm getting a little burned out on this subject and I still need to finish up the "subsequent investigations" section. There's a pretty good description of the modeling process on the NOVA site linked from the external links page. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 17:38, 27 October 2007 (CDT)


:Yea, let's be very clear about what it with probably 99% probability means that the AP is selling images of that clay figure photo.  Whoever holds rights to it has given ''non-exclusive rights'' to the AP to reproduce it, like they probably gave them to triartgallery.com.  That's a good chunck of dough the copyright holder was paid.  This means there is an active and financially-rewarding market for such images for the copyright holder and, because of that, one had better be ''very'' darned sure about their fair use claim when using it under such. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 06:27, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
Hi, could you do me a favour and take a really quick look at [[CZ_Talk:Approval_Process#Updated nomination instructions - hopefully correctly!]] (and maybe[[CZ:Approval_Process]] too) and tell me if I have correctly worked out (and documented) how the Approval nomination process works now? What was there before didn't seem to match what I was seeing out in the Wiki, so I Was Bold and went ahead and updated the instructions (thinking that if they were wrong, they'd be confusing as all getout to less technical editors). Thanks! [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 19:05, 25 February 2008 (CST)


==Thanks for the tips==
== CZ:RBI ==
Thanks for your edit summary tips in the images I recently uploaded, I'll try and remember them next time. Regards --[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 12:45, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
Could you restore that? It's a guideline that was under construction. I guess I should've said something. THX! --[[User:Greg Pass|Greg Pass]] 20:08, 25 February 2008 (CST)


== [[Image talk:Coat of Arms of Angola.gif]] ==
:I can give you the text, but [[CZ:Proposals]] is where you would craft such a page, or else in userspace. You might wish to get a good handle on the current system before doing something like that, however.  For example, Citizendium does not have Wikipedia-styled "guideline" pages like that, has a rules against shortcut acronyms as was posted there, the constabulary already has clear blocking and vandalism procedures, and the latter has been so negligible as to be not worth mentioning.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:17, 25 February 2008 (CST)


Great idea; I'm working on it right now. I'll let you know when it's finished. Happy editing! --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 19:22, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
:Thanks. BTW, regarding [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Angola/Gallery&diff=prev&oldid=100196116 this], I do :-) Thank you very much! --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 22:08, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
::[[Template:Attribution-noderivas|Done]]. Please check it and feel free to edit it. Happy editing! --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 22:23, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
:::Cool!  I really appreciate your help with this stuff! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:26, 27 October 2007 (CDT)


==Tracing contributions==
== [[Eduzendium]] ==
Hi Stephen,  I haven't been participating much as of late due to the demands on new faculty. However, I am going to have my microbiology class participate in eduzendium. [[http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Biol_201:_General_Microbiology| CZ:Biol_201:_General_Microbiology]]. I tried contacting various constables about facilitating the registration of my students, but received no reply. Most of the students (~55) will be registering in the next two weeks. I just want to make sure the registration process goes smoothly and that they are registered in a timely manner in order to finish the assignment by the end of april. These students will be registering with emails ending in @qc.cuny.edu I was hoping to touch base with you about this.--[[User:John J. Dennehy|John J. Dennehy]] 15:44, 27 February 2008 (CST)


Hi Steve,
:Great, John, I will let all constables know.  Also, for your students' articles, do you wish them to be editable by anyone or only to the assigned student?  There ought be some notice atop the article in the case of the former.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:35, 27 February 2008 (CST)


How do I trace the contributions of an author. What I'm trying to do is to see when, where and to what extent a student has contributed not only to their own article but to other articles.
::good point. Only student should edit at least until the assignment is over. I'll add a notice to the template. BTW I will be suggesting this template: [[Biggius microbia]] --[[User:John J. Dennehy|John J. Dennehy]] 19:25, 27 February 2008 (CST)


[[User:Lee R. Berger|Lee R. Berger]] 01:13, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
== Re nominating [[Life/Draft]] for approval ==


:Just navigate to that student's userpage.  On the left of the page in the toolbox there will be a link, User contributions.  That tells the whole story.  Click on the link there diff and you can see precisely each contribution. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:15, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
Stephen, the approval process (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Approval_Process) allows that three "involved" editors of an article can together nominate a draft version to replace an approved version, without an "uninvolved" editor:


::For example, [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User_talk:Stephen_Ewen&diff=prev&oldid=100196366 see this diff]. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:17, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
<blockquote>The editorial procedures remain the same as for the original approval. Either one uninvolved editor or three involved editors can call for an article to be approved. They do this by returning to the XYZ/metadata page and fill out the To-Approve section of the template again.</blockquote>


== Question ==
Gareth has indicated he's prepared to approve.  If you agree, I'll see if I can figure out how to set the 'to approve' banner with our three usernames.


Hi Stephen, I still don't quite understand the notion of approved pages. I put a question [[Talk:Chemistry/Draft#Please_explain_draft_principle|here]]. Could you please have a look at it? Thank you in advance. --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 03:11, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
I'll check back here for your reesponse. --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 17:48, 27 February 2008 (CST)


::Reply is at [[Talk:Chemistry/Draft#Please_explain_draft_principle]]. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:04, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
:Remember, I'm not an editor but a constable.  I can only encourage as an author. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:23, 27 February 2008 (CST)


*Stephen, thank you for your lightning response. So, if I may interpret your answer: After some authors (including myself) have made some changes to the draft of an approved article, it is up to one(?) editor (or one contributing author?) to decide that time is ready for the next release. When the time is ripe, we  signal you and you will take care of the release. Do I understand the procedure correctly now?
==Recipes again==
Please have a look at [[CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Next_steps.3F]]. [[User:Supten Sarbadhikari|Supten Sarbadhikari]] 23:34, 27 February 2008 (CST)


:Another thing, Pieter Kuiper asked  [[talk:Van der Waals equation|here]] why the history of the approved article has vanished. I'm interested in the answer as well, so when you put a reply on that talk page, I appreciate that too. Thank you again, --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 03:40, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
==Bonita de Klerk==


You have it close.   
My student [[User:Bonita de Klerk]] says she doesn't have a password yet so can't log in.  Is that possible after two weeks?  I needed access to her account to upload part of a jointly authored article that was done by her and me - [[Palau]] so that the system will give her authorship (by the way an interesting point is that when uploading an original article if two authors have contributed to it the only way I can see to ensure this is noted is by splitting the article and letting each one upload part)Is there any other way you can think of?  This is obviously in anticipation that some of us glory mongering credit focused academics can convince Larry to allow credit and citation :-)


''Anyone'' may ''prod'' approval of an article.  ''Authors'' do that by contacting a relevant area editor ''who has not contributed significantly to the article''.  The editor will then review the article, and if he or she feels it meets muster, can nominate it for approval.  How ''editors'' deal with approval depends upon two factors: 1) whether they have contributed significantly to the text; or, 2) have not.  In the case of #1, they follow the same procedure as authors do: they contact an editor to nominate the article for approval. In the case of #2, they simply act themselves to nominate the article for approval.  ''Additional'' editors may "sign on" to the approval.  See [[CZ:The_Editor_Role]] and [[CZ:Approval_Process#Who_may_approve]] for more complete explanations. 
Thanks in advance!


Constables don't approve articles. They ''serve others'' to do their role(s) effectively.  The constable's role in approval is only to do the ''mechanics'' of approval, i.e., placing templates and locking pages in response to the approval process as lead by editors.     
[[User:Lee R. Berger|Lee R. Berger]] 06:34, 29 February 2008 (CST)


That initially sounds a bit complex, but it is really easy.  Basically, if you wrote significantly, another editor does the approval; if not, you do the approval.  A constable formalizes it by placing templates and locking pages.
P.S. there are a few problems with the anthro author page - bonita's name is there twice and we seem to have an abundance of people with the surname "user" ;-)


[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:04, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
[[User:Lee R. Berger|Lee R. Berger]] 06:39, 29 February 2008 (CST)


*Yes, I understand that part of the procedure now, but my specific concern was not release 1.0, but release 1.1 (or even release 2.0) of an approved article. Do we go through the same steps and have to prod one or more non-involved editors again for a new release, even if the changes are minor?  --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 04:33, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
==Oh Recipes!==
Please have a look at [[CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Concrete_Steps_Ahead]] and kindly do the needful. [[User:Supten Sarbadhikari|Supten Sarbadhikari]] 22:24, 2 March 2008 (CST)


::How minor?  If we are talking mere typos or grammatical issues, I can just step in and correct them in the current approved article.  Just says what needs doing.  If it regards actual ''content'', however, yes, it needs to go through the process.  If the changes are minor, however, it goes quicker. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:40, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
== Your fair-use proposal ==


==Tilden pic==
Hello. The proposal record for "[[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive fair use policy|Non-comprehensive fair use policy]]", for which you are listed as driver, says that the next step (community input) was due to be completed 23 February. Could you please update the proposal record on [[CZ:Proposals/Executive]], changing your self-imposed deadline and perhaps the next step? If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask me. Your newly-appointed Proposals Manager, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 16:24, 3 March 2008 (CST)
Hey, great! I was *wondering* where that came from! We just gotta find other PD pix! What about that old Brit cartoon of [[Ray Casey]] that we discussed *months* ago? The Daily Mail never replied, I take it. Can I send them another email, this time *copying* the damn thing, just to prove that we tried, and then reinsert it? You deleted it, as I recall, but you said that it would be easy to reinstate it. And there have got to be a *ton* of PD Australian pix, since the copyright on them is only 50 years.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 18:23, 30 October 2007 (CDT)


:I've not forgotten Hayford, I'll get to this. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:46, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
==Led Zeppelin==
Stephen, I just want to thank you for voting for Led Zeppelin in the Draft of the Week. I never expected anyone to vote for it but I do appreciate it :) Thanks! [[User:Meg Ireland|Meg Ireland]] 17:03, 4 March 2008 (CST)


== Picture Cauchy ==
==Authorship and Citation==


Hi Stephen,
Hi Stephen,
right now I'm working on [[Augustin-Louis Cauchy]]. I found a nice picture:


http://www.universalis.fr/corpus_media.php?mref=PH020402
Will you take a look at this [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Proposals/Citing_CZ_article_by_authors]


Could I use it? Thank you, --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 09:32, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
[[User:Lee R. Berger|Lee R. Berger]] 01:55, 5 March 2008 (CST)


PS The same picture is here:
:Nah.  There has to be an authoritative decision about authorship for it to have, well, authority and thus meaning.  We won't ''know'' if there will really be ownership issues unless the idea is tested under a scheme traditionally noting authorship.  We should not be afraid to run that sort of pilot, I think.  I suspect that ''knol'' will push CZ to this in the longer run, particularly if the authoring students - the resume-builders themselves - are given choice of where they write.  This issue may ultimately boil down to a choice between having contributions chiefly from those for whom attribution is important or those for whom it is not.  In any regards, given the real names policy and the practical need to ''credibly'' publish to advance careers (coupled with the limited time people have to write), I personally don't see this issue as going away.  I myself worry that being cited as "an entry [ [[Stravenue]] ] on a user-generated online encyclopedia, Citizendium",[http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/227836] will not lend the project to the sort of trustworthiness that will come from, say in this case, naming a geography editor from the Univ of Arizona first and then, again say in this case, Hayford Peirce. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:14, 5 March 2008 (CST)
::Naw, it was actually my cat, Leonetta (see portrait at [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:HP2.jpg]), who did the [[Stravenue]] article. She's very good with a computer keyboard but diffident and self-effacing and wanted me to take the credit for her work. I don't know how this will effect my on-going quest for a PhD. at Harvard, however.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 09:14, 5 March 2008 (CST)


http://www.sci-museum.kita.osaka.jp/~saito/scientist/math/cauchy.JPG
:::Meow. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:47, 6 March 2008 (CST)


and here (where there is some Italian talk about the licence):
== CZ:Upload-Wizard ==


http://campusvirtual.unex.es/cala/epistemowikia/index.php?title=Imagen:Cauchy.jpg
I have to say, this looks pretty spiffy. Nice job on that :) [[User:Aaron Schulz|Aaron Schulz]] 10:31, 5 March 2008 (CST)


Another picture (an older Cauchy) (here Library of Congress is mentioned as licence holder):
:Thanks!  Robert King has helped some. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 10:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::I'm actually thinking of changing the format again; possibly with larger icons and smaller text.  Maybe we need more, or custom icons?  Right now it still looks very "thrown together" or "web 1.0" if you will. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 10:16, 6 March 2008 (CST)


http://www.answers.com/topic/augustin-louis-cauchy?cat=technology
Stephen do you think you can find icons that represent the abstractions of
*"I (as in myself)" - perhaps a silouette pointing to himself, or something like that
*"Someone else" - maybe a silouette pointing to something else
*"Reuse with few or no restrictions" - not sure on this one
*"Professional work" - not sure either.
I'm [[CZ:Upload-Wizard/Sandbox#Proposed_version|working on an improved "icon-friendly" version of the upload wizard]]. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:35, 6 March 2008 (CST)


;Reply
:Lookin' good!  One idea for the ''...wish people to reuse my work with few or no restrictions'' and .''..wish to upload a work of professional quality or rarity'' is to create a graphic for the one saying "Free!" and another saying "''Less'' Free".  I'll have to think about ideas for the others.... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:45, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::Check it out now.  All I gotta do now is add more icons, <s>put the borders right</s>, and figure out that imagemap deal, unless you already know how to execute it? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 14:37, 6 March 2008 (CST)


*http://www.universalis.fr/corpus_media.php?mref=PH020402 - in short, no.  I can't find any data on it there and must presume it not usable rather than vice-versa
:::I like it!  The borders and centering needs to be made consistent, though.  Also, it might be even more clear if each major section has a viewable border.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 15:24, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::::I'm not sure how to change the color of that middle line; haven't figured that out yet.  <s>Also, what do you mean by centering?  None of the text is centered.</s> (Fixed).  And when you mean each major section, do you mean the left-right, or each icon? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 15:27, 6 March 2008 (CST)
:::::Imagemap isn't working when I try to use <code><nowiki>[{{fullurl:Special:Upload|uselang=pd-old}}]</nowiki></code> --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 17:53, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::::::I mean each icon/text unit when I say major section.  [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Crystal_Clear_app_kopete.png This icon] could be adapted by changing what appears in the textbox for the two types of self-released uploads.  I'm not sure how to deal with Imagemap, perhaps just use the raw URL? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:57, 6 March 2008 (CST)
:::::::Using the raw url doesn't work either!!
[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Crystal_Clear_app_ksysv.png This might be adapted] for the own release upload type.  For one you make the green bright, for the less free you make the yellow bright.  If need be, images of the icons with the text can be made and imagemap used that way. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:02, 6 March 2008 (CST)


*http://www.sci-museum.kita.osaka.jp/~saito/scientist/math/cauchy.JPG - same as above
:see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:ImageMap#Special_chars_in_external_url and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11504 They say fixed, but I claim either we have an outdated version of imagemap or it's B.S. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 18:33, 6 March 2008 (CST)


*http://campusvirtual.unex.es/cala/epistemowikia/index.php?title=Imagen:Cauchy.jpg - the data there is completely bogusAre we to believe that the uploader "Andreita" was able to coax whoever holds rights to that image to triple license it under the GFDL, GNUPL, and CC-by-sa versions 1.0, 2.0, and 2.5?  I don't think so!!
Do the URL's work if you substitute unicode? See [http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/topics/urlencoding.htm this.] [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:47, 6 March 2008 (CST)
:I tried %26 which is & but it wouldn't take itYou give it a shot, maybe I'm trying something wrong.--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 18:54, 6 March 2008 (CST)


::^^ This is absurdibly hilarious. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 02:22, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
::Sounds like you've done everything right and have just run up against that bug. We should probably pester bugs to apply [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:ImageMap#Special_chars_in_external_url this patch].  That'll fix it.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
:::See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL#Ampersand_.28.26.29_problem [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:25, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::::Who do we yell at? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:15, 6 March 2008 (CST)


*http://www.answers.com/topic/augustin-louis-cauchy?cat=technology - '''Yes!''' I'll add it.
:::::Our own bugs people to apply that patch/update to the ImageMap extension. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:04, 6 March 2008 (CST)
::::::I emailed the bugs people, and CC'd you on it. I wonder if I should have cc'd Larry <!-- the overseer--> also. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 11:13, 7 March 2008 (CST)
:::::Meanwhile, could {{Tl|Plainlink}} serve as a workaround? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:06, 8 March 2008 (CST)
::::::{{Tl|Plainlink}} just provides a link in curly braces, doesn't it?  I'm not sure how you would apply it? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 07:44, 8 March 2008 (CST)


[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:26, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
== On the plus side ==


:http://www.universalis.fr/corpus_media.php?mref=PH020402 says "Lithographie de Jules Boilly, 1821." It should then be in the public domain. --06:35, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
[[User:Robert_W_King/Sandbox#Timeline_test|My long-wished timeline template is shaping up!]] --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:05, 9 March 2008 (CDT)


::Yes, ''the lithograph'' is, but what about ''the reproduction'' of itFrench law allows copyright on "photographic works ''and works produced by techniques analogous to photography''". I don't know if that would cover a lithograph. I do know the image there credits it to Jacques Boyer / Roger-Viollet, and examples of their copyrighted works of old works in France can be seen [http://www.abicia.com/CreditPhotos.aspx here].  Lacking data, knowledge of how that stipulation in French law would apply to a lithograph, and a date of the reproduction of the lithograph, it is presumptuous to say we can just nab the image of it and tag it PD. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:30, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
:You need to look at it in Firefox.  let me know if you need a screenshot of the display issue I am seeing. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:35, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
::Are you seeing the stem just in the wrong placeIf that's all, then I'm not as worried as I was seconds ago before I looked.. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 17:36, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
[[Image:Stem-in-wrong-place-inFf-test-image.jpg]]
:I can fix that, but hungry first. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 17:45, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
::I think I done fix 'er upped! --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 19:12, 9 March 2008 (CDT)


Here is the Roger-Viollet source of the image if you'd like to find out what they have to say: http://www.parisenimages.fr/en/terms-of-use-for-the-pictures.html [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:28, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
::Indeed!  Looks good in IE, too. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 19:21, 9 March 2008 (CDT)


== RE: Careful.... ==
== FYI: feedback proposal ==


I really do not understand why the image was deleted. It is impossible for the image to be copyrighted, as the author of the painting, Hyacinthe Rigaud, died in 1743, and the ''droit d'auteur'' (French copyright law - English translation can be found [http://www.wipo.int/clea/docs_new/en/fr/fr062en.html here]) says that proprietary rights expire 70 years after the author's death. If you can explain to me why that image is still protected by copyright laws, I will accept your decision. --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 20:42, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
It just occurred to me that I should point you to [[http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Proposals/Enable_external_feedback | feedback proposal]] in case you haven't noticed it and want to fill in why you think feedback should be on approved articles only. [[User:Warren Schudy|Warren Schudy]] 00:52, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


:Yes, rights to ''the painting'' are long expired.  Not ''to all photographs'' of it, however.  France is not like the U.S. in that way, as best I can tell.  See for example [http://www.louvre.fr/llv/oeuvres/detail_notice.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225142&CURRENT_LLV_NOTICE%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673225142&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723696500815&bmLocale=en the photo shown by Louvre Museum], who also holds the original painting.  We have to make sure the photo originates with someone who published ''their own'' photo in the U.S.; then, the photo will be PD because "slavish copies" of PD works cannot be copyrighted in the U.S.  We have ''no clue'' from where the image at the Commons was obtained.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:52, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
==Credit for adapted diagrams--question==
::Well, then I should probably delete that image at the Commons, too :-) Sorry for the trouble; the new image is better, anyway. --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 20:57, 31 October 2007 (CDT)


:::Few in [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_de_France the whole category there] are sourced. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:05, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
Hi Stephen, in my book you're one of the go-to guys on images and citations but I'm not sure if you check the forums anymore.
::::Hmm... quite true. Check back in a few days; It'll be ''very'' different ;-) --[[User:Eddie Ortiz Nieves|Eddie Ortiz Nieves]] 21:14, 31 October 2007 (CDT)


:::::Also see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#Country-specific_rules on France. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:32, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
If I wanted to create a diagram or illustration in Illustrator that was an adaptation of a well-known diagram (for example, Maslow's hierarchy of needs--basically a needs pyramid), how would I go about citing the original image? My work would be a derivative, but clearly I did not come up with the concept of the hierarchy of needs myself. Would an 'adapted from (reference)' suffice?


::::::Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag isn't respected at the Wikimedia Commons. Whenever somebody tries to open a deletion request because of it, the request is closed as a ''kept'' because of Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. --[[User:Kjetil Ree|Kjetil Ree]] 06:39, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
Thanks, appreciate your help. [[User:Louise Valmoria|Louise Valmoria]] 02:49, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


:::::::And of course, Bridgeman does not apply to photos originating outside of the U.SAnd too, this would explain why they are hosting these images ''without sourcing''.  To place the true source would probably in most cases be to say "this is infringement," rather than leaving it to implication.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 12:26, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
:Just cite the original work and note your creation is a derivative, as you noteHowever, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg this] is already available and can be imported without problem, if specifically the Maslow thing is what your are after.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:03, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


== I probably should have been a little slower ==
::Thanks for the advice, and also for your assistance with finding an available Maslow diagram. I am intending to fill out the rest of the [[motivation]] article with diagrams explaining the processes and the Maslow diagram is probably the easiest to find, but it does save quite a bit of time knowing that there is already something out there. Some of the other processes are newer or lesser known, so I also needed to know how to go about citing the correct theory originators should I need to make new diagrams. Much appreciated! [[User:Louise Valmoria|Louise Valmoria]] 01:36, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


I think I just spammed the server with uploads. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:31, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
== Your fair-use proposal, again ==


:Wow!  You worked some magic with [[:Image:Louis XIV by Rigaud, 1701, Louvre (cropped).jpg]]! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:42, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
Hi Steve. May I please remind you of my earlier message, dated 3 March, on your proposal "[[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive fair use policy|Non-comprehensive fair use policy]]". As far as I can see, you haven't yet updated the proposal record on [[CZ:Proposals/Executive]], nor have I seen any sign of activity on the proposal page. If nothing happens within a week, I'll have to assume that you are no longer interested in the proposal and thus remove you as its driver, which will render the proposal inactive. That would be a pity given the amount of work that you've put into it. Cheers, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 09:47, 10 March 2008 (CDT) (Proposals Manager)


::The problem was that the picture somehow captures the texture of the canvas and the color burn gradient wasn't having a fantastic time adjusting, so I had to really put some extreme adjustment on it.  --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:47, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
==DNA/RNA==


:::What program(s) did you use? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:53, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
I'm not sure either, but there is such a thing as RNA!  That's as much as I know. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:14, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
:Also, change your clock to reflect DST.  I forgot to do mine also. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:15, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


::::The bestest free program there is, http://www.getpaint.net/ --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:54, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
What would you gentlemen like to know about RNA or DNA? [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 16:20, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
:With regard to a revert at Intelligent design.  In the context of that paragraph DNA is definitely correct, however, in the context of first life RNA may well be correct. Intelligent design tends to use modern definitions of life, hence they invoke the impossability of a cell appearing from nowhere.  But first life does not have to be cellular. This is the basis of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world_hypothesis RNA world hypothesis] and probably the reason for the edit you reverted. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 16:41, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


:::::Ah, I use that too - unlike Adobe, I can actually figure out Paint.net, relatively so. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:59, 31 October 2007 (CDT)
FYI: I added an new image to the [[RNA]] page showing the primary difference between RNA and DNA.  I see now this whole conversation started with a similar switch of words, to the correct one I might add. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 16:57, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


== Assistance ==
:I have an undergrad handle on DNA/RNA and have read about the RNA hypothesis in the past (I think its pretty interesting, like most of these things) and have studied the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Africa_theory Out of Africa theory] (which I find pretty convincing), er, [[Out of Africa Theory]] (hint-hint) in some depth.  My reversion to DNA seemed correct because of what was stated in the immediately surrounding context.  I'll let ya'll hammer it out, though. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:05, 10 March 2008 (CDT)


I have a picture I'm uploading from a flickr user, with whom I got permission to use the photo from. I haven't done this process before so I may need some backup. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 18:40, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
The simplest organisms don't have DNA. Either the sentence has to be changed by removing the word "simplest" or the word has to be RNA instead of DNA.
While the step from organisms with RNA to organisms with also have DNA is certainly interesting and probably challenged by ID-people I think the intent of the sentence is:
The genetic information of the simplest (or first) organisms was too complex, to have evolved at random. Those organisms didn't store their genetic information in DNA according to the established scientific worldview that is challenged by intelligent design. [[User:Christian Kleineidam|Christian Kleineidam]] 17:21, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
:With respect to science there is definitely a consensus that RNA pre-existed DNA, however, whether the first cell existed before DNA is not known as far as I'm aware. The ID article appears to be talking about cells and probably bacteria-like cells. Do ID creationists acknowledge a pre-DNA world? The article cited can be [http://www.csub.edu/~kszick_miranda/Koonin%202003.pdf seen here] and the minimal set of genes they talk about is definitely for a DNA cell. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 18:14, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


:I'll hit an RBI if you don't hit a grand slam. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:45, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
i moved this discussion to [[Talk:Intelligent_design#DNA.2FRNA|Talk:Intelligent_design]], it seems more relevant there. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 20:46, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


::I think I got everythingCan you double check? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 18:49, 1 November 2007 (CDT)
==Upload wizard mediawiki pages==
I can't edit those because they're lockedThat task is all yours <code><nowiki>:)</nowiki></code> --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 20:30, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


:::Can you protect the following pages? :
:The talk pages aren't. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:34, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
*http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image_talk:Carl_rosendahl_bowling_shirt.jpg/Permission
*http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image_talk:Allison_Fang_backstroke_sequence.jpg/Permission
--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 15:24, 2 November 2007 (CDT)


Done. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:19, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
::Also, we can make it so what is there is transposed from the Template namespace. Which pages you after?  All of 'em? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:35, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


:BTW, unless a photo is of such quality that a polite person should not have the gall, you might go ahead and first ask the flickr folk if they'd release the photo "under a Creative Commons license, the freer the better". [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:36, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
:::E.g., {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownwork}} . [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:41, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
::Normally, I would have but I went through thousands of photos with the tags of "bowling shirt", and that was an archetype of what I could consider one to be, without having people looking goofy in it.  Additionally with the backstroke series of photos, I wanted something showing process. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:39, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
::::Um, what?  I don't understand?  Also, there are only 3 left to do, the copyright-expired (pdold), reusable (reusable), and print source. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 20:52, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


== Uploading photos ==
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-bypermission‎}}


I am sooooo not attempting to crop/fix photos anymore (''pace'', Rob King).  Cropped and uploaded to [[acer palmatum]].  First, it was so incredibly fiddly, took forever, everything is now blurry and I'm seeing stars, if my husband finds out for how long I was running the generator doing this I'm dead, but anyway I gave it a go to be a good sport but man, this just isn't my thing.  Exhausted.  Going to make tea.  And, p.s., I made the page look a mess, to boot.  Hate taxoboxes.  Hate formatting.  Hate everything!  (except just writing)  And MC and SC.  And you guys.  I don't hate you.  [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 22:59, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-pd-usgov‎}}


:It looks fine.  BTW, since the resolution on these images is small and the licensing not free, and [http://www.flickr.com/search/?l=cc&w=all&q=Acer+palmatum&m=text there is easy availability of similar photos in both higher resolution and under a free license], you should ''expect'' them to be replaced sooner or later.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:11, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-flickr‎}}


::BTW, nice to know I ain't the only one who's lived places without normal power provisions. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:18, 2 November 2007 (CDT)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-wikimedia‎}}


== French ==
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownworkcr‎}}


Why not. Have you any model (in English) you used so far? If so it'd certainly help if you mailed me one. [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 02:48, 4 November 2007 (CST)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownworkpro‎}}


:I do.  See [[CZ:Media_Assets_Workgroup/Example_permission_request_letters]]. However, something less formal and more brief may be in order in this case, although I'm not sure. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:55, 4 November 2007 (CST)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownworkgnu‎}}
::Thanks! I'm sending a mail. Actually I'm mailing [http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation/joconde/fr/pres.htm here] (see the bottom 2 lines) since I had impression the link you suggested was provided for a hard copy service (I might be wrong here, we'll see). BTW, do you go to sleep from time to time ;) ? [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 08:05, 4 November 2007 (CST)


:::I've never required much sleep. :D  We don't need a hardcopy of the image, digital is completely fine. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:40, 4 November 2007 (CST)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownworkpd‎}}
:::Stephen operates by flex-sleep. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 13:08, 4 November 2007 (CST)


::::By the way, if you translated [[CZ:Media_Assets_Workgroup/Example_permission_request_letters]] into French, ''do'' upload it there! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:42, 4 November 2007 (CST)
* {{Tl|Uploadtext-ownwork‎}}
:::Well, I uploaded a text (not a translation). Unfotunately, with no accents -- my old notebook is still anglo-saxon ;) -- but better this than nothing. BTW, a google translation of the sentence "vet articles for accuracy and..." produces "veterinaire de la precision", that is  "precise veterinarian" :) [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 13:39, 4 November 2007 (CST)
::Well I understand that but how is that put into context of the upload wizard? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:10, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


== Subpagatebot malfunctions ==
:::Which specific MediaWiki namespace pages do you want access to? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:17, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
::::Well technically I don't need access to any of them but there are three mediawiki namespace pages that need revisioning; those are the ones listed on the upload-wizard/sandbox page. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:19, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


subpagation bot eliminated all WP-tags it encountered, and is still doing it. Please halt is operation. Thanks. [[User:Yi Zhe Wu|Yi Zhe Wu]] 10:38, 4 November 2007 (CST)
ROFL...  See http://www.flickr.com/photos/librarygeek/2074653299/ for an idea for "You authored this...." [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:56, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


:Thanks, Yi.  The Bot has been blocked till this issue is fixed. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:22, 4 November 2007 (CST)
== Oops ==


::Thanks, how is it now? [[User:Yi Zhe Wu|Yi Zhe Wu]] 16:08, 4 November 2007 (CST)
Yeah; as you can see, I figured it out pretty quickly, though. Sigh, I've been using "jnc" as my username since '77 or so, so it's totally hardwired in my brain now! (And the similarity of CZ to Wikipedia doesn't help, either...) I was slightly cross when Larry said we had to use full names for accounts here! I was always very proud of carrying on the old {{WP|Incompatible_Timesharing_System|ITS}} hacker tradition of using my initials for my account. Oh well. [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 21:13, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


:::It's been blocked for now, till the issue is fixed. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:23, 4 November 2007 (CST)
:LOL, I understand. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:16, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
::Once I was at a convention with some guys I knew, and someone cracked a joke.  Instead of just laughing, I did a pseudo-laugh while saying "L O L" (like el oh el).  It was the most embarassing moment of my life. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:17, 11 March 2008 (CDT)


== Learning curve (I first typed "curse") ==
:::LOL...someone else once told me they did the same thing. It could catch on.... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:19, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
I gotta say that for me, at least, it is not at all "slight" -- in fact the contrary: baffling, with sheer brute force, determination, and repetition enabling me to *perhaps* overcome some of the obstacles.  But, of course, I said that about MS-DOS back in 1984.... (On the other hand, I haven't changed my mind about that, hehe!) Anyway, I think I'm getting there, although some things still leave me puzzled. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:32, 5 November 2007 (CST)


== One puzzle ==
== Count Rumford ==
I see in the gallery for [[Bolognese sauce]] that all of the individual pictures have, if I go into it deep enough, the CC-picture thingee. But none of this shows up in the individual pictures shown in the gallery. There's no indication to the casual viewer that I am the CC or A of each picture.... (Not that I care, I'm just curious.) [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:32, 5 November 2007 (CST)


== CZ's image goals ==
Steve, can I use this: http://www.artunframed.com/images/gainsb/rumford1.jpg  --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 19:35, 12 March 2008 (CDT)
I take it that CZ's ultimate goal is to ensure that *each* and *every* image shown in an article has an attributable CC or A showing above the caption lines? And that each picture, if one digs deep enough, will give precise info about where this picture originated? Worthy goals, of course. And a lot of work for *you*! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:32, 5 November 2007 (CST)


:It is EASYSee your talk page. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:34, 5 November 2007 (CST)
:I can't say "yes" because it's hosted in Britain so there ''may'' be an extremely remote issue (photos of PD works can have protections) with you uploading it from the Netherlands. But not with me from the U.S. :-) I'll upload it for you tonight.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:15, 12 March 2008 (CDT)


== Cauchy again ==
::It so happens that I'm in California right now, but if you do it, it is fine by me. Thank you--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 20:21, 12 March 2008 (CDT)


Hi Stephen, I found a slightly nicer (straighter) title page of one of Cauchy's textbooks here:
*Steven, I would like to use a piece of a table of a book (a translation from the French into English) from 1790. I found the table here:
[http://www.openlibrary.org/details/oeuvresdaugusti203caucrich]


I'm prepared to write all sorts of licence info in the image file, but in the article I find it overdone. After all, every university math library has these collected works on the shelf, and scanning a page is as much work as copying it (less than a few minutes). Could we not use some very short abridged licence formulation to put in the caption of the figure? --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 04:02, 6 November 2007 (CST)
http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/2Pre1800/Lavoisier/Nomenclature/Lavoisier_on_Elements.html


:That's completely simple.  It is Openlibrary.org who provided the media to us in usable form, right?  You thus credit Openlibrary.org.  You'd add <tt><nowiki>{{PD-image|Openlibrary.org}}</nowiki></tt> to the credit template.  On the actual image upload page, you add as much info as you reasonably can, placing yourself in the shoes of one who finds the image at CZ 15+ years from now and who will want to know as much about it as they can know.  I'd definitely add the info at the "details" link from the link you provided and that you obtained it from http://www.openlibrary.org/details/oeuvresdaugusti203caucrich.    [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:31, 6 November 2007 (CST)
and here (Google/Dover):


== template creation ==
http://books.google.nl/books?id=yS_m3PrVbpgC&pg=RA1-PA175&vq=Table+of+simple+substances&source=gbs_search_r&cad=0_2&sig=HtEP0n7R9A8eL8QWjtUZrPFLyMA#PRA1-PA175,M1
Hi, Steve, I did go to the Pine image and, as you say, it now looks a LOT easier! I think the HARD part, at least for me, was to get me to push that damn red button with the check mark in it in the first place. Maybe if you could move it out of the lefthand MARGIN and somehow set it right in the middle of the screen, below the previous steps, with big bold letters saying something like: NOW, THE FINAL STEP -- PUSH THIS DAMN RED BUTTON!!!! IF YOU DON'T THE PICTURE WON'T BE DONE CORRECTLY!!!! And maybe, when you get to page of the UPLOAD FILE on the left margin, at the very top you could rewrite things to say: "Uploading a pic in CZ is a little different from the WP process.  We need to do TWO things to make it successful: 1.) Upload the picture itself 2.) THEN, before this process is finished, create a TEMPLATE that will be essential for future smooth running of CZ. The template creation is semi-automatic -- just upload your picture (following the easy instructions below), then follow the additional instructions to create the template -- and you'll be done!!!"


On the other hand, although I'm somewhat better about it than some of my friends, I've got a little bit of resistance to the JRTFM approach to things. Of course, I've developed this in part because I've learned over the years that so many F Manuals are almost worst than not reading them.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 11:10, 6 November 2007 (CST)
The 1790 book was reprinted in facsimile by Dover in 1965. I could also use the original French version:


:Oh, but there is a pay-off for users too in terms of ease-of-use! Note: the template ''makes the code to places the image you uploaded!''  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:28, 6 November 2007 (CST)
http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mainzv/exhibit/lavoisier.htm  


::Well, yeah, but you gotta get dummies like me to do it correctly in the first place! In any case, I'll be uploading at least one picture tomorrow, so I'll be able to try things out from scratch....[[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 14:02, 6 November 2007 (CST)
What do you think copyright-wise? --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 15:03, 13 March 2008 (CDT)


:::If it makes you feel any better, I had to type an envelope some time agoThe overly busy secretary pointed me to the typewriter, pleading mercy with her eyes as if to say ''Would you do it yourself?  Please?''  So I sat at the contraption. I suddenly became stumped. ''So what do I do with THIS thing?'' :-D [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:33, 6 November 2007 (CST)
:That's Public DomainHave at it. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:55, 13 March 2008 (CDT)


::::A couple of years ago I was in an enormous store of old LP records looking for something or other. I came across an old LP of Samoan music for a couple of bucks and brought it home as a surprise for my Samoan GF. Her eyes lit up as she held up the record and examined it. Then she said, "But what do I *do* with it?"[[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 14:41, 6 November 2007 (CST)
==Spreadsheet==


:::::Ha! Ah, island life.  BTW, I actually ''do'' remember when 8-track tapes were an improvement to the LP. :-)
Did you have a chance to look at the spreadsheet? I'm thinking that we could put only the cases where there is no doubt that it is expired on the copyright-expired upload wizard template ( I think I highlighted them with blue ).  Maybe keeping it in a table form would work.  We could also make a flowchart with just those specific cases. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 09:48, 14 March 2008 (CDT)


::::::Well, we were in Tucson, but wherever we were, it would be a question of *age* -- she'd never really seen a phonograph in operation. In any case, I just uploaded a new photo into [[Bolognese sauce]] and your template worked '''perfectly''' and '''easily'''. Thanks, and congratulations!
:I'll look at it tonight.... I'm off to get new glasses.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 12:04, 14 March 2008 (CDT)


Keep in mind you don't even have to make the code to place an uploaded image into an article.  The template on the image upload page ''creates it for you''.  Copy, paste. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:58, 7 November 2007 (CST)
== Your fair-use proposal, the sequel ==
:Righto, I'll try to remember! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 12:55, 7 November 2007 (CST)


== [[Italian language]] ==
Please have another look at it. You put down 15 March as target date for writing the summary, which has now passed. For your convenience, the proposal page is at [[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive fair use policy]] and the proposal record it at [[CZ:Proposals/Executive]]. -- The Proposals Manager, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 16:56, 19 March 2008 (CDT)


Hello, [[User:Hayford Peirce]] has pointed me your way.  I imported the above from WP to put around my stub, which was the part of it that I wanted to preserve differently from WP.  I then had to remove a lot of unused templates - but I haven't a clue about how to do that in the infobox.  Please help! - [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 17:21, 6 November 2007 (CST)
== Wrong licence on image? ==


:Do you want the infobox template or no? If so, you have more importing to do, namely, template subpages from the source of the template, see the bottom of the page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Language. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:37, 6 November 2007 (CST)
Hi Stephen.  Please see [[:Image:Blaas.jpg]]. The author released it as public domain, which I entered when using the upload wizard, but on that page its appearing as copyrighted to the author. How can I change that? Regards, [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 18:56, 19 March 2008 (CDT)


==Irish language .svg image==
:That's an issue that requires coding to fix...it's on my list of stuff to do. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 19:27, 19 March 2008 (CDT)
Thanks for re-uploading [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:Gaeltachtai_le_hainmneacha.svg this]. However, I have found through a test page - [[Irish language/test]] that it doesn't shrink the picture - we just get a big chunk of north-west Ireland. So still some gremlins... [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 01:19, 7 November 2007 (CST)


== there's something wrong with my last article ==
::No worries - the image displays the correct tag anyway when used in an [[blaa|article]]. [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 17:44, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
[[Portuguese pork stew with clams (ameijoas con carne de porco à alentejana)]] has an extraneous metadata template line across the top of the text that I can't get rid of -- I musta done something wrong while creating the article, sigh.  I think I'll just go back to chiseling letters into stones.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 12:55, 7 November 2007 (CST)


==9/11==
==Table==
Update on [[9-11 Attack]]: as you were involved with the discussion of the apparent bias in the 'immediate response' section, please see the Talk page and [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=9-11_Attack&diff=100139667&oldid=100139615 this edit] - the old paragraph was put back in by Richard Jensen (Guiliani="brilliant" etc.). [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 03:26, 8 November 2007 (CST)


== [[Telephone newspaper]] fork at Wikipedia ==
Created here:


Stephen -- I was the opening (and closing) admin in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Telephone_newspaper the AfD at Wikipedia] concerning the potential copyright issues in Citizendium forks - just wanted to thank you for adding your input. I've deleted all relevant material from the edit histories for the time being.
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Robert_W_King/Sandbox#PD_table


If you think to, please let me know how the license discussion here turns out, as I won't be able to monitor it at the present time. I'm sure the issue could arise again in the future.
On the actual upload page, it should probably say something like


On an unrelated note, this is the first encounter I've had with Citizendium, and it looks promising. Several months ago I cut way back on my time spent at Wikipedia, primarily over the same issues that seem to have led to the creation of this encyclopedia -- that there's no system in place to create articles which can be academically credible. The open source concept has created something great in Wikipedia, but its also been the source of its problems. It looks like the right balance may have been struck here.
"The following matrix represents the only works that are currently "Public Domain" ." --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:20, 21 March 2008 (CDT)


Thanks again. [[User:Brendan R. Ross|Brendan R. Ross]] 00:22, 9 November 2007 (CST)
== Please clarify ==


:Hope to see you around! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:22, 10 November 2007 (CST)
Stephen, I just uploaded the photo[[:Image:Christchurch Trickling Filters.jpg]] for use in an article I plan to write. As you can see on the permissions subpage where I provided the complete chain of emails exchanged with the City of Christchurch in New Zealand that ended with granting CZ permission to use that photo, I asked them for permission under a Creative Commons license and they granted permission.


== Defective gallery ==
However, when I uploaded the photo, the drop-down licensing options only included copyright options ... there were no Creative Commons options. So I selected a copyright option which is more restrictive than a CC license.


[[President of the United States of America/Gallery]] appears to be in gross defective condition. Can you take a look? Thanks! [[User:Yi Zhe Wu|Yi Zhe Wu]] 15:06, 10 November 2007 (CST)
But why are there no Creative Commons options? Please explain.
- [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:35, 25 March 2008 (CDT)


:Hey, that might be just great transformed into a Catalog along the line of [[Tennis/Catalogs/Famous players]]!  Let me know if you wanna do it and what facts you think should be included about each presidentWe can adapt the tennis template for the president's gallery.  Each president would have a thumb image like some of the tennis players haveWhat do you think? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:21, 10 November 2007 (CST)
:According to the correspondence, they did not release it under a Creative Commons license but only gave permissionThat's fine, and you documented the photo perfectly:-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:21, 25 March 2008 (CDT)


::BTW, we can coordinate on getting the missing images if you want, by order of president or something.  I'm positive we can fill each gap.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:25, 10 November 2007 (CST)
== Credit Proposal ==


:::I hope to have [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Tools/Commonist Commonist] hacked in a week or so for use with CZ. We could test it for this. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:27, 10 November 2007 (CST)
You wrote: "I'll drive if: 1) the 3 author rule is removed and replaced with nothing; 2) the result is a citation, but also includes the verbiage welcoming other contribs below it. Stephen Ewen 21:12, 29 March 2008 (CDT) "
::::Hey Stephen Ewen, thanks. But when I originally posted this request on your talk page, I was not worrying about missing images (they are just not yet uploaded yet), but rather a defective mechanism of {{tl|mixed_gallery}}, [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=President_of_the_United_States_of_America/Gallery&oldid=100206291 as seen in this version], with all the space gaps and malformations. Was it a template error or anything else? Thanks! [[User:Yi Zhe Wu|Yi Zhe Wu]] 09:09, 11 November 2007 (CST)


== Edits to [[Tecum Umam]] ==
The second proposal already has these I think. Even if it doesn't, go ahead and make those changes and drive! If someone strenuously objects, they can make proposal #3 or negotiate with you. -[[User:Warren Schudy|Warren Schudy]] 11:00, 30 March 2008 (CDT)


Hey Steve, thanks for your input, but I'm not sure moving the conclusion to the lead is really a good idea.  For one, it makes the opening horribly redundant. But it also means that the article ends really abruptly, which is what I was trying to avoid by writing the conclusion.  What are your thoughts? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 22:49, 10 November 2007 (CST)
: Second the motion! What did you think of my suggested new wording for what the template inserts (basically adding a pre-cooked citation, as you desired). [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 13:02, 30 March 2008 (CDT)


:Well, its redundant whether in the beginning or end, it's not really "encyclopedia" form to have a conclusion, its okay to end encyclopedia articles abruptly, and info about him being real or mythical is really important and I think needs to be in the lede.  He-he, but I'm not gonna edit war about it.  :-D  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:57, 10 November 2007 (CST)
== I need one of those callout boxes so help! as the Beatles said ==


::But don't you want us both to get kicked out for edit warring?  Oops, was that a flamebait?  Oh my...
I'm addressing this to Steve, Rob, or whoever reads this and can help.
::You're right about putting the bit about whether he is real in the lede, of course, but it comes off as a little patronizing the way it's written if one hasn't already read the rest of the article.  I guess I'll see what I can do about de-redundizing and un-patronating. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 23:07, 10 November 2007 (CST)


== DSM criteria - Know you're busy - READ THIS!!!  ==
In response to a suggestion for the Rottweiler article, I'd like to see [[Rottweiler#Birth, growth and development of puppies|THIS SECTION]] and the two whelping photographs put into one of those boxes some of the articles have.


Stephen...thanks for you input on this. Check my response]]. :)
My reason is that the information is not integral to the narrative but is nevertheless useful and interesting, and I also like the tone in which it's written. For more, see [[user:David E. Volk|David's]] comments on the [[Talk:Rottweiler|TALK PAGE]].


Blessings... --[[User:Michael J. Formica|Michael J. Formica]] 08:23, 11 November 2007 (CST)
I can't do the markup myself, that sort of thing makes me ill, so help, someone, pretty please?


== Question about a picture I took ==
[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 23:01, 31 March 2008 (CDT)


Stephen, I went to the National Gallery of Art yesterday, and I went to an exhibit for Edward Hopper (the guy who did the "Nighthawks" painting). In the actual exhibit, I stealthily took a picture painted by Hopper of himself.  I say "stealthily" because the exhibit said no photographyUnder what conditions would I be allowed to use the photo? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 10:42, 11 November 2007 (CST)
::[[user:Chris Day|Chris]] came to the rescue.  Grateful thanks.[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 04:28, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
 
==A joy....==
....to use your upload wizard.  Such a great tool.  Thanks.  [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 03:02, 2 April 2008 (CDT)
 
== Images of book covers ==
 
Stephen: Can we show images of book covers now?  If so, can we crop and show only selected segment of cover?  --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 17:06, 4 April 2008 (CDT)
 
I would argue “fair use” for CZ authors/editors to reproduce book cover images in these cases:
*One uses a scanned image of a book cover one owns, scan produced by the owner, owner specifies no reuse by others except when used in Citizendium articles, that specification always shown with the image, the image always a thumbnail;
*One uses a captured screen image of a book cover on a publisher’s website, shows it as a thumbnail, and specifies the publisher’s name and the website URL containing the image;
*One uses a captured screen image of a book cover on a booksellers website, so long as the bookseller remains non-identifiable/non-linkable from the image, shows it as a thumbnail, and specifies no reuse by others except when used in Citizendium articles, that specification always shown with the image. --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 18:28, 4 April 2008 (CDT)
 
::It would of course be fair use, in my view.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 00:56, 6 April 2008 (CDT)
 
Dear Stephen,
 
I am a little worried about my article's images, I was following the image wizard and copying the information from the public domain about the image, the name I used to credit the image was listed as the image's: "author" I thought those were their real names...
I'm really new to this stuff so I appreciate the advice.
Thanks,
 
Corinne
 
== You'r own work? ==
 
Hey Stephen,
 
Sorry, I was wondering what to do if it's your own work (that's not in a Creative Commons)? For example my image for my bio is a picture I took, or if I draw a orbital motion and then take a picture and upload it to my computer. How do you credit your own work?
Thanks again!
 
Corinne
 
== Michael Faraday ==
 
Dear Stephen, you are good in finding portraits. Could you find a portrait of [[Michael Faraday]]? --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 19:16, 8 April 2008 (CDT)
 
:Well, I love the one currently in the articleVery nice. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:05, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
::When I asked you this, Richard Jensen had not yet added that picture and also I didn't know that he intended to add one. Sorry for bothering you for nothing.--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 20:29, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
:::well actually I was given the idea by Paul's request here. [[User:Richard Jensen|Richard Jensen]] 21:35, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
 
Stephen could I use [http://www.rigb.org/heritage/popups/inductionring.jsp this photo] ? --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 12:35, 23 April 2008 (CDT)
 
== Fair Use ==
 
Do I upload photos from this site as fair use or something else?  I'm not sure what the disclaimer requires of me/us.  http://academic.reed.edu/uxmal/copyright.html --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 11:01, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
:Dunno, don't recall.  I myself would not hesitate to use any photos there, however. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:05, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
 
== 'Tombstone' page? ==
 
I assume [[Onslow Beach/Tester2]] is now no longer needed, and should be deleted? [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 15:51, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 
PS: Time to archive your Talk: page... :-) [[User:J. Noel Chiappa|J. Noel Chiappa]] 15:51, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
 
== Eduzendium ==
I'm having trouble getting help getting a student registered. His name is alvaro cardona <dariuscardona@yahoo.com> and he says he submitted a registration request but never heard back. --[[User:John J. Dennehy|John J. Dennehy]] 14:19, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
 
== Drop of 'title' Question ==
 
Hi Stephen,
when I registered, I assumed that I need to include my title - since in Germany, the moment you receive your doctorate, it is an official part of your name that you can't usually miss (it is even entered into your passport). You can, of course, drop my title in my name - could you please assist me how to manage that?
All the best for now,
Raphael. <small>...said</small> [[User:Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D.|Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D.]] ([[User_talk:Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D.|talk]]) {{#if:06:20, 15 April 2008|06:20, 15 April 2008|}} (<small>''Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ''</small><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.)


:Email me the photo to see, this is easier to deal with on concrete terms. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 12:42, 11 November 2007 (CST)
== New user name ==
::On it's way. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:43, 11 November 2007 (CST)
:::I know we're all busy in various capacities but I was wondering if you had an update on this... I had sent it to your gmail address, thinking not to send you the same attachments twice. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 20:55, 13 November 2007 (CST)


::::Not yetStill thinkin'. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:57, 13 November 2007 (CST)
Stephen, take a look [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User_talk:Roger_Lohmann#New_user_name here]Thanks, [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 07:50, 15 April 2008 (CDT)


== On a seperate note ==
[http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User_talk:Dr._Raman_Chandrasekar Another one] for the name changer. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 16:36, 26 September 2008 (CDT)


I've thought about it, and The upload_wizard.png graphic is one of the worst I've seen in a long itme.  Can I make something new?--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 20:29, 11 November 2007 (CST)
== Please see my questions on the Forum ==


:By all means, please do.  You can redesign layout, etc, too!  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:40, 11 November 2007 (CST)
Stephen:


[[Image:Media_upload_wizard_image_gif.gif|200px|thumb|Gif format, with transparency]][[Image:Media_upload_wizard_image.png|200px|thumb|png format, just for you (even though I abhor it.)]]
When you have the time, please look at the questions I asked [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,1686.0.html here] in the Images section of the forums. No rush, but I would like whatever answers you can give. Thanks in advance, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 11:13, 18 April 2008 (CDT)


<s>Let me know what you think of either of these.</s> The transparency doesn't apparently work. Dunno why, will figure out later, but let me know otherwise. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 23:54, 11 November 2007 (CST)
== Your help please... ==


:Ah, crap, someone apparently killed the Wizard for now.  I don't know why. :-(  Images look cool!  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 00:32, 12 November 2007 (CST)
If I am not mistaken you are an image expert.


::Yipee!  It's back. :-) See the Wizard now.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:15, 12 November 2007 (CST)
Could you please explain the notes on [[:Image:Peterborough Lift Lock, partway through cycle.jpg]]?


:::Dead again.  Must be a cache issue. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:36, 12 November 2007 (CST)
Did I upload an image that can't be used here?
::::I think I might know what the problem is; I painted the background white, instead of erasing it, therefore there's no area that it knows to calculate alpha transparency, which means I'd have to go in there and erase pixels again. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 08:09, 12 November 2007 (CST)


== Thanks ==
The 150kb guideline, is that merely for the convenience of readers, who might have a slow connection?  In which case it was okay that the first version I uploaded was 400K?  Or is the concern over the capacity of the image server? 


Stephen - I appreciate the tidy up you did on my 'User Page'. You now have my email too. aladin [[User:Aladin|Aladin]] 08:52, 13 November 2007 (CST)
Thanks!  [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 16:12, 21 April 2008 (CDT)


== Waldo article approval ==
:It's fine, and just ignore the size limit. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:59, 23 April 2008 (CDT)
I saw your note about this. I just checked with the Visual Arts Workgroup. There are only 3 Editors. One, Mons. Petit, has not contributed since Aug. One has *never* contributed. The third made one contribution back in April. So I don't think this approval project will go very far.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 16:53, 13 November 2007 (CST)


:That's what they said about [[Symphony]]. Sometime ya just gotta prod with an email. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:55, 13 November 2007 (CST)
==Hilarious==
I know this is WP related, but you have got to check out [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Citizendium#unreliable_references_have_no_place_in_this_article this exchange.] This is the funniest bit:
<pre>
Clay Shirky is NOT a recognized authority on Citizendium. QuackGuru (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:Even if he is not that's not an issue here. -- Taku (talk) 22:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::This issue issue here. Per WP:EL#AVOID, the blog is not a recognized authority. QuackGuru (talk) 23:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Like I said, WP:EL#AVOID is merely a guideline. -- Taku (talk) 05:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::WP:EL#AVOID is a guideline we should comply with. QuackGuru (talk) 06:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::And I have already responded to this. Please, I'm getting tired of repeating myself. -- Taku (talk) 06:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Policy or the guideline is applicable to this case. We should comply with Wikipedia policy and not ignore it. QuackGuru (talk) 09:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Which policy? -- Taku (talk) 21:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::WP:EL#AVOID QuackGuru (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::But it's not a policy :) -- Taku (talk) 22:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::We should comply with this guideline. QuackGuru (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
</pre>
It's so just "spinning-the-wheels" but I love it. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 13:08, 24 April 2008 (CDT)


::Well, I s'pose.... What do I say? "The [[Waldo Peirce]] article is apparently finished, has a lot of references, etc., and some people feel that it is now ready for the approval process. Since [O Exalted] you are one of the Visual Arts editors, I wonder if you would have to the kindness to etc. etc...." Something like that? [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:02, 13 November 2007 (CST)
ROFL. {{smile}} [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:21, 24 April 2008 (CDT)


:::I've emailed one editor; the two others don't have email links, so I've left messages on their Discussion pages. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 11:23, 14 November 2007 (CST)
==Also...==
I'm working on something and would like to know if you want to assist.  The section is under [[CZ_Talk:Workgroup_Weeks]] "What else"; let me know if you're interested.  Also, we need to finish the upload wizard! --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 09:29, 25 April 2008 (CDT)


== strings extension ==


== Advertisements on CZ ==
There has been some talk of trying to push to get the strings package added to CZ...any idea how something like that might happen?--[[User:David Yamakuchi|David Yamakuchi]] 20:17, 3 May 2008 (CDT)
Can the Constabulary please delete this article? -- http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Robert_E._Kelley_%28business%29 
Thanks. --[[User:Martin Baldwin-Edwards|Martin Baldwin-Edwards]] 18:26, 13 November 2007 (CST)


:It does not meet (low) standard for constabulary action, in my view. 1) The poster does not appear to have any connection with the author; 2) The subject, a prof at Carnegie Mellen, has acheived some notoriety, in my view. So this is not ''merely'' self-promotion.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:29, 14 November 2007 (CST)
:Email tools@citizendium.org [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:01, 4 May 2008 (CDT)


== Some suggested changes to MediaWiki namespace meessages ==
== Changes ==


*[[MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown]] -- you may wish to remove "Abusing multiple accounts", since, as I understand it, multiple accounts are not permitted.
Just asking, when I was not at CZ for months, are there any significant changes in policy and content here? Regards. [[User:Yi Zhe Wu|Yi Zhe Wu]] 12:22, 17 May 2008 (CDT)
**Done, and strongly CZ-ified.
*[[MediaWiki:Logouttext]] -- implies you can edit while logged out/anonymously; you might change it to: "<nowiki><strong>You are now logged out.</strong><br /> You can continue to read Citizendium without logging in, or you can [[Special:Userlogin|log in
again]]. Note that some pages may continue to be displayed as if you were still logged in, until you clear your browser cache.</nowiki>"
**Done, as suggested.
*[[MediaWiki:noarticletextanon]] -- implies you can edit a page without logging in; you might change it to: "<nowiki>There is currently no text in this page, you can [[Special:Search/{{PAGENAME}}|search for this page title]] in other pages or [[Special:Userlogin|log in]] in order to edit this page.</nowiki>"
**Done, as suggested, plus added a link to request an account.
*[[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] -- links to [[Help:Contents]](via "<nowiki>[[{{MediaWiki:helppage}}|help page]]</nowiki>") rather than the more specific [[CZ:How_to_start_a_new_article]]
**Done, as suggested.
*[[MediaWiki:Prefs-help-email]] -- implies providing an email address is optional, when, as I understand it, an email address is required; you might change it to: "<nowiki>E-mail address is required, in order to help verify your identity and allow other Citizens to contact you privately.</nowiki>"
**Done, and strongly CZ-ified.
*[[MediaWiki:Prefs-help-realname]] -- implies that real names are optional; you might change it to: "<nowiki>Real name is required, and should be the same as your username.</nowiki>"
**Done, tweaked from as suggested.
*[[MediaWiki:Tooltip-pt-anonlogin]] & [[MediaWiki:Tooltip-pt-login]] -- imply pages can be edited by non-logged in users; you might change them to: "<nowiki>In order to edit pages, you must have an account.</nowiki>"
**Done, as suggested, plus added a link to request an account.
*[[MediaWiki:Welcomecreation]] -- may need to be expanded with the standard CZ welcome message; maybe something from [[MediaWiki:Whitelistedittext]].
**I'm not sure about this one.  I'll have to look at what it does more in context.  So I've left it alone for now.
*[[MediaWiki:requestaccount-loginnotice]] -- should be blanked, as it's redundant with the line that appears above it on [[Special:Userlogin]], "Don't have an account? Get one now.", which links to the same place.
**Blanked.
To remove any copyright issues with the above, I hereby release, and grant unlimited, worldwide permissions to anyone for any copyright claims I may have in the above text, i.e. I put my part in the public domain. (Some of it is derivative of MediaWiki defaults, which may have other licenses.)


I posted this to you as you were the most recent (after Larry, who I assumed was already plenty busy), person to edit the MediaWiki namespace. If this message would be be better sent to someone else, please pass it on to them, or let me know, and I will. Thanks for your attention. -- [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 03:04, 14 November 2007 (CST)
==Move lock==
Hi - no hurry, but can you lift the move lock on the [[morphology]] article. We want to move it for disambiguation purposes. Thanks. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] 02:46, 15 June 2008 (CDT)


:Hey, thanks Jesse, this is greatI will work my way through these tomorrow.  :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:30, 14 November 2007 (CST)
:Done!  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 15:21, 15 June 2008 (CDT)
::Glad to be of service.  Oddly enough, I ''like'' this kind of detailed fixes. [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 03:37, 14 November 2007 (CST)


:::I like how lots of little fixes add up to big. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 13:26, 14 November 2007 (CST)
== Wikipedia ==


Found another one: [[MediaWiki:Ipboptions]] is the list of lengths pre-set for blocking; since current policy says that all blocks are indefinite , that page should be changed to: "infinite:infinite". -- [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 04:08, 14 November 2007 (CST)
Hi Steve,<br>It looks like there have been some fairly extensive edits to improve the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tec%C3%BAn_Um%C3%A1n Tecún Umán] article over at Wikipedia.  They have obviously been using our article to do this, because they are now citing many of the sources that I had considerable trouble getting my hands on when I was first composing our article.  I think there may also be some copyright violations (have a look at recent edits).  I'm glad that someone is paying attention but the copyright issues are obviously not acceptable.  How do we go about fixing that? <br>Thanks much,<br>--[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 17:01, 18 June 2008 (CDT)
**Gonna leave that one for now, as it may be used later.


Not to bug, but -- since it looks like you haven't had a chance to get to these: might another constable be able to? [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 01:38, 1 December 2007 (CST)
:Let me look....  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:12, 18 June 2008 (CDT)


:'Tis on my list of things to do, probably this weekend. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:03, 1 December 2007 (CST)
::Thanks, Steve.  I know you've had contact with people over there who responded to similar situations very professionally before.  See, specifically, the section on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tec%C3%BAn_Um%C3%A1n#Historical_evidence historical evidence]. Where the text mirrors our article exactly but does not give credit. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 10:49, 23 June 2008 (CDT)


::Okay, all done!  Thanks for pointing all this out, Jesse. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:05, 4 December 2007 (CST)
:::See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tec%C3%BAn_Um%C3%A1n&diff=221255053&oldid=220850449 here].  Let me know if you want to do anything more. It would be fully justifiable, for example, to simply revert to the point where the rip off began. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:04, 23 June 2008 (CDT)
:::Glad I could help, and thanks for getting them done. [[User:JesseWeinstein|JesseWeinstein]] 18:08, 12 December 2007 (CST)


== Culture + Magic ==
::::Thanks again.  I don't need any personal credit, so I changed the citation to simply read "Citizendium contributors".  I removed references to our article where the information in question is common knowledge and our article probably didn't tell the author anything new and also changed a few references to cite other sources for the benefit of the reader.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether any of this stuff sticks... --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 12:48, 24 June 2008 (CDT)
:::::This is great. I'd be unhappy if after all of our hard work Wikipedia says "today we copied all of their approved articles, & then we 'flagged' them so we're basically as good as Citizendium if not better (& we think we are too)" ([[User:Chunbum Park|Chunbum Park]] 13:34, 24 June 2008 (CDT))


Stephen: with your anthropology and critical theory hat please drop by at [[Culture]] as well as [[Magic]] both of which I have made a stub start at; you would be most welcome even to make a token appearance on the talk pages therein. aladin [[User:Aladin|Aladin]] 07:09, 14 November 2007 (CST)
== Way to go! ==


== Image Category "Game" ==
Steve, that was great about the email from Trinity Church.  That says something for sure. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 07:35, 23 June 2008 (CDT)


You know, it might benefit us to have some kind of "game" where a random image is presented and below there's either a textfield or a choice of radio buttons to place an image into a category. Sometimes if you present an ill task as "entertainment" it may get done more often. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 22:18, 15 November 2007 (CST)
[[Image:Crystal ksmiletris.png|18px]] [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:39, 23 June 2008 (CDT)


(also you may need to adjust the time on your talk page to reflect daylight savings.)
==video copyright==
Hi Stephen, First, very impressed with the e-mail matt mentions above.  Second I just put a video onto the [[Biology/Video]] subpage as an experiment.  One problem is that an older version that i had booked marked appears to have been removed due to copyright infringement.  See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxSLw1LMvgk  What do we need to do to get access to this video? I assume we can't link to anything on youtube. If they give us permission would we host it?  Third, note that the video subpage curretnly say these are CZ hosted, yet we are actually linking to youtube, so far. Should we change that header to something more generic?  Or is our long term goal to host everything here? [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 01:44, 26 June 2008 (CDT)


:After a co-worker showed me http://www.freerice.com/ today and I spent 10-15 playing, I think you are on to something!  Any idea how to make this? Clock fixed.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:27, 15 November 2007 (CST)
== Is an image obtained from a U.S. patent published online considered Public Domain? ==
::I think part of the code is already written on the "random page", we'd need to tailor that to bring up images.  Then, we integrate that into a template that brings up all the interface stuff.  After that, it's a matter of figuring out the "submit" action to write the data.  Also we'd have to determine if there are set categories (biology, chemistry, like we have for workgroups) or if we want to just include any freeform categories (might be bad.)  Also, perhaps we could use "tags" much in the way flickr does as opposed to "categories".  I'm not sure what the trade off would be.
--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 22:30, 15 November 2007 (CST)


== test ==
Stephen, I found an image (that I want to use for a CZ article) in a patent published online (U.S. Patent 6915662) at [http://www.freepatentsonline.com/US6915662.html this url]. I have re-drawn it completely to enhance it and to change the measurement units from USA units to metric units ... but it is still basically the same as in the patent.
--[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 21:08, 16 November 2007 (CST)


== That upload wizard is coming along pretty nicely. ==
Would my drawing be considered Public Domain? And how should I word the credit line? Should I credit it to the U.S. Patent Office, or to the specific patent number, or the names of the inventors?


One little problem though: you misspelled "flickr" in the text that people are supposed to copy into the edit box. And I'm not allowed to edit that text. :-( --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 02:09, 17 November 2007 (CST)
Thanks in advance, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 16:57, 5 July 2008 (CDT)


:Thanks!  I'll fix itBTW, let me know if you'd like to take on getting a section or two of it hummingWe can get you developers rights for that for a while, I'm sure. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:16, 17 November 2007 (CST)
:An image obtained from a U.S. patent published online would be Public Domain only if the image is the intellectual creation of the U.S. govYou know when this is the case if it is the intellectual creation of a U.S. gov employee in the course of their official duties.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:14, 6 July 2008 (CDT)


::Did you fix the typo?  It still shows up incorrectlyI'm going to focus my efforts on getting the unchecklisted articles down to zero, but if by some miracle, I finish that before you finish the upload wizard, I'd be happy to pitch in. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 20:41, 21 November 2007 (CST)
::By the way, for what its worth, for images that merely depict factual info of something that has passed into common use, I'd personally not be concerned one bit about just using it '''here''' under fair useThere's nothing creative about the image, it's just facts.  That said, it's so small I can't read it without squinting, and even then its blurry and not at all pleasurable to view, and I have a high quality monitor. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:23, 6 July 2008 (CDT)


::I flixed the problem. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:40, 22 November 2007 (CST)
==See==
[[Talk:LeStudio1.com]] --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:09, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


== Series of "articles"? ==
:Thx.  Userfied.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:09, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


Is User:Arnold Reisman pasting a book or something? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:25, 17 November 2007 (CST)
== Many excellent free photos at www.morguefile.com ==


:Sheesh.  Thanks for the alert. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:31, 17 November 2007 (CST)
Stephen:
::There's a couple of them, I just don't know what they're supposed to be... --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:33, 17 November 2007 (CST)
:::Weird title, too -- I saw this a while ago but thought I'd let someone else find it also.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 16:45, 17 November 2007 (CST)
::::IF they're supposed to be legitimate articles then they're in real need of editing, but if they're something else then it's out of my hands.  Strangely when I asked that question on a talk page, Mr. Reisman undid my question. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:47, 17 November 2007 (CST)
:::::Yeah, this should be monitored. This article [[Einstein_the_Savior_Turkey_the_Safe_Haven]] apart from the weird title looks to be a complete mess and resembles a propaganda article... [[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra]] 22:51, 17 November 2007 (CST)
::::::In any case, I had already restored Robert's question. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 16:55, 17 November 2007 (CST)


There are a great many excellent photos available for free use at [http://www.morguefile.com www.morguefile.com]. Their terms of use  license agreement is available at [http://www.morguefile.com/archive/terms.php?sid=196958c99abbb21c9488459d8dfecffc License agreement]


==logo==
Are you familiar with them? I have written them an email asking specically if we are free to use any of their photos on CZ. I will email you a copy of their response when I get it.
Hi Stephen, I noticed this recently.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Image:Logo400grbeta.png


This is my fault as I have been pretty lazy with my picture uploads and have gone with GFDL for everything. But in this case I probably should have chosen something else. I don't even know what the parent licence is for the logo. Shoudl we go through and change all these now or just wait until we know for sure what CZ is going? [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 17:25, 17 November 2007 (CST)
I would appreciate your comments concerning their terms of use license agreement. It would be a great resource if we can use their photos. Regards, -[[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 14:11, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


:This is something I've had in mind for some time.  These logos need to be copyrighted, all rights reserved - really they ought be trademarked, just like WPs logos. I think we ought tag them all {{Tl|copyrighted}}. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:29, 17 November 2007 (CST)
:Be careful! I have tried to go to that site three times now, twice with IE and once with Firefox, and all three times it takes me to:
::*http://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/lostredirect.html
:and a warning from Micro Trend PC-Cillin pops up and tells me that this is a "dangerous" phishing site.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 14:59, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


::I'll deal with it at Commons. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:33, 17 November 2007 (CST)
::The link is incorrect. Milt typed "www.morgue.file.com" as the destination for the link when he meant "[http://www.morguefile.com www.morguefile.com]" --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 16:28, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


==Article not listed==
:::Thanks, Joe. I have fixed my mistake now and the link now works correctly. What do you think  of that site? [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 17:07, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
Hi Steve. I wrote the math article [[Denseness]] today and created subpages, metadata and checklist for it as well. Yet, it is not being listed in the Mathematics Workgroup list of articles, nor is it there in the list of recent changes in the Mathematics section. Would you happen to know what kind of technical glitch could be causing this? Thanks. --[[User:Hendra I. Nurdin|Hendra]] 04:15, 18 November 2007 (CST)


:There is a bug right now where this is happening (perhaps related to daylight savings time recently?) Check in one hour and it should show.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:19, 18 November 2007 (CST)
::::The terms look fine to me. Many of the photographers ask to be notified when their works are used but, of course, that is only fairJust check the darker tan strip above the photo for any special requests by the person who originally submitted the file. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 17:24, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


::You should change your username to display more fully.  Don't worry about your name showing up in search engines, see http://en.citizendium.org/robots.txt which blocks them from all CZ pages where it'd otherwise show up. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:30, 18 November 2007 (CST)
:::::Stephen, I just uploaded [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:Industrial_air_pollution_source.jpg Industrial air pollution source.jpg] which I obtained from the  [http://www.morguefile.com www.morguefile.com] website. All the author of the photo asked was to be notified by email about the upload and that he be included in the credit line ... and he said even that wasn't mandatory. I will send him an email and will include him in the credit line.


==Hi Steve==
:::::When I uploaded the drawing, I used the option offered in the Upload-Wizard that was entitled: '''Some other internet source that features re-usable media''' and I also selected <nowiki>{{Test-template}}</nowiki> as the licensing option. Everything went well and the image was uploaded. However, there seems to be no way to create a credit line when using that option from the Upload-Wizard. I have tried everything I could think of but have been unable to create a credit line for the uploaded photo. Can you help get that done? I would like it to read: "© Kenn Kiser". I would like to get this done as soon as you can, so that I can send Ken Kiser the notification email he asked for. Thanks a bunch, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 22:27, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


Hi Steve -- just catching up after a long slow road to a big presentation in London this week. Went well and my weekend is (at least in part) mine again! Thanks for your kind words about the press release I worked on. I think we should have a rough schedule to draw attention to key developments (eg milestone releases, anniversaries, new initiatives).
::::::I'll tidy up over the weekend. You did the right thing. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:01, 8 July 2008 (CDT)


In the meantime, an image question -- I want to upload an image for the [[gay marketing]] article. It is for a campaign my agency created for Lufthansa and you can see an example of it [http://www.outnowconsulting.com/services.htm here]. Is it conflict of interest to do it myself? There would be other images I could try to chase but the LH one we created requires no additional permissions and it is a strong visual example for readers to see what the article discusses. Your expert advice gratefully received! --[[User:Ian Johnson|Ian Johnson]] 06:59, 18 November 2007 (CST)
There are some great photos there that I'd very much like to use. The files are generally large however, and I guess will generally need to be included at lower resolution - if so, how should they be credited? [[User:Gareth Leng|Gareth Leng]] 03:49, 9 July 2008 (CDT)


:Why ''of course'' you can upload photos you created. Please do!  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:28, 18 November 2007 (CST)
:Attribute to author; link to location of photo. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:51, 11 July 2008 (CDT)


::Thanks Steve, did so, and thanks for tidying up the credit notation on the image. I wanted to let you know about one thing I observed when going through the upload process -- there was a point in the Template for credits that had instruction notes with the <! instructions !> inside exclamation marks something like that, and I thought I would mention to you that template can be improved by making clear that the ONLY two options to make it work right are either "image" or "photograph"  (or whatever the correct two words are -- can't now recall) -- by which I mean that adding double quotes around the words in those template instructions would help users realise that its either one or the other. I made a mistake and at first chose "advertising image" which caused the template to not work right at first. I would make the change myself but to be honest cannot now find where that template is, so am letting you know that user feedback instead. Hope that made sense. --[[User:Ian Johnson|Ian Johnson]] 07:40, 3 December 2007 (CST)
===Morguefile template===
I made {{Tl|Morguefile}} and it can be selected from [[Special:Upload]] but not from the Wizard yet. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:51, 11 July 2008 (CDT)


== GFDL in the Upload Wizard ==
== could you delete a page? ==


Steve, this was left on talk page: "I uploaded two files today and, even if they are of my own work, I put them under GFDL. I like the CC licence model, but I believe the wizard should provide GFDL as a choice. Regards, [[User:Olier Raby|Olier Raby]]."
Hello Mr. Ewen,  


:I tend to agree - we should add a GFDL section at some point in the future, right? [[User:Eric M Gearhart|Eric M Gearhart]]
could you delete [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Dokdo/Catalogs this page] please? Thank you very much. ([[User:Chunbum Park|Chunbum Park]] 10:08, 17 July 2008 (CDT))


::Given [http://notablog.notafish.com/index.php/2005/04/21/26-why-the-wikimedia-projects-should-not-use-gfdl-as-a-stand-alone-license-for-images|blog what this says], do you think the practice of uploading individual photos under the GFDL should be encouraged?  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:14, 18 November 2007 (CST)
:Hi Chunbum.  Done.  [[Image:Crystal ksmiletris.png|18px]] [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 00:58, 18 July 2008 (CDT)


:::I made {{Tl|Dual-CC-by-sa-3.0-GFDL}}. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:44, 18 November 2007 (CST)
::Gratias tibi ago. ([[User:Chunbum Park|Chunbum Park]] 08:35, 18 July 2008 (CDT))


::::I see your point about the GFDL and all, and I think CZ in general should use a CC license of some type. The only reason I asked was to provide him with the choice - I don't think railroading people away from GFDL is such a good idea. We should try to inform people, not just direct them, in my opinion anyway [[User:Eric M Gearhart|Eric M Gearhart]]
== Can you re-name an image for me, please? ==


::::Also on the Upload wizard page I don't see any option but CC licenses as options in the dropdown list... public domain and the dual GFDL license aren't listed. Was that intentional? [[User:Eric M Gearhart|Eric M Gearhart]]
Stephen, could you re-name [[:Image:Relative Volatility vsT&P.png]] to [[:Image:Relative Volatilty vs T&P.png]]? I goofed and did not put a space between "vs" and "T&P". Thanks mucho in advance, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:58, 18 July 2008 (CDT)


:::::Point taken.  Creating it as an option is half done. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 04:23, 19 November 2007 (CST)
:Just re-upload it with the name you want and place <nowiki>{{speedydelete|Duplicate image}}</nowiki> on the wrongly named one. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:41, 19 July 2008 (CDT)


Done.  See http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:Upload&uselang=ownworkgnu.  It has its own easy-peasy page, since there are no options to choose from like the CC licenses. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:33, 19 November 2007 (CST)
== helix: GOOD! ==
Stephen, I love the DNA helix animation!  Thanks for uploading that.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] 08:31, 18 July 2008 (CDT)


:Perhaps it just needs time to bypass the cache but all the uselang= pages for it are defaulting to default right now. :\ [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:58, 19 November 2007 (CST)
:Thanks!  That thing was quite the challenge to make.... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 14:40, 19 July 2008 (CDT)


Yep, tis workin' like a charm now. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 19:52, 21 November 2007 (CST)
== Category Help requests ==


==Ataturk==
Stephen, I asked you a question under "category help requests", but because I'm not sure that is the right place and will reach you,  I mention it here. --[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 10:00, 21 July 2008 (CDT)
Thanks for inputting the images to Ataturk.


Arnold--[[User:Arnold Reisman|Arnold Reisman]] 21:48, 19 November 2007 (CST)
:I'll look into getting one this weekend... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:01, 22 July 2008 (CDT)


Thanks for the images in Ataturk.
== User rename ==
Question why does this article not pop up among my others on Reisman search?
Also you may wish to add the following resources to your list on intellectual property rights.


Hi Stephen, here's one for your magic touch [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Byeongju_Park_Ph.D.]


Reisman, A. (2005). To catch a thief you must think like a thief.  Are you up to it?
:Done. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:17, 9 August 2008 (CDT)
ORMS Today ,Cover story, 32(1) pgs. 21-25. April,
downloadable from: http://ssrn.com/abstract=639701


Reisman, A.  (2006), Illegal Transfer of Technologies: A Taxonomic View, Journal of Engineering and Technology Management, Volume 23 ,  Issue 4,  292-312    Downloadable from: http://ssrn.com/abstract=532522
== Image use ==


Cheers
Stephen, can I use [http://flickr.com/photos/mtnpix/88366111/in/set-530775/ this picture]?  [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 21:46, 6 August 2008 (CDT)
Arnold--[[User:Arnold Reisman|Arnold Reisman]] 22:02, 19 November 2007 (CST)
:Yep. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 22:01, 6 August 2008 (CDT)
::Thanks Joe!  Keep an eye on me to make sure I do it right... it's been awhile! [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 22:15, 6 August 2008 (CDT)
:::Wow, that was so much easier than a year ago!  Way to go guys... [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 22:47, 6 August 2008 (CDT)


:I just searched for it with just the name Ataturk and I found it fine.  Also, you can always retrace your every step on the wiki by clicking "My contributions" in the upper right.  I looked at [[Special:Contributions/Arnold_Reisman|your contributions list]] and it appears there. Best, [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:06, 19 November 2007 (CST)
== Images in [[Neanderthal]]: permissions? ==


== Possibly public domain but maybe not... ==
Stephen: Re the images in [[Neanderthal]]: does CZ have permission to reproduce them? Not clear to me that proper permission obtained. [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 19:48, 8 August 2008 (CDT)


A "useful" copyright notice - can you take a look at [[Talk:Hilda_Geiringer#Pictures]] when you get a chance and give me your opinion?  Thanks, [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 16:50, 21 November 2007 (CST)
== Photo from www.freefoto.com ==


== Thanks For The Welcome! ==
Stephen:
This place already seems superior to the endless b.s over at Wikipedia. [[User:Andrew Sylvia|Andrew Sylvia]] 22:16, 23 November 2007 (CST)


== Thanks ==
There is a very good picture of a gas flare that I would very much like to use at [http://www.freefoto.com/download/13-28-74?ffid=13-28-74 here]


I will pause now then, and use your tool.
Their rules for using a free photo can be read at [http://www.freefoto.com/browse/99-05-0?ffid=99-05-0 here] and my interpretation is that CZ would be free to use the photo. If you agree, after reading the rules, would you be so kind as upload it into CZ as <nowiki>[[Image:Gas Flare.jpg]]</nowiki> so that I can use it?


Those images were all previously uploaded to the wikipedia. And many of them were then copied to the wikipedia commons, with the dates not preserved, and subsequently deleted. 
If you disagree, please let me know. Thanks very much, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 17:11, 10 August 2008 (CDT)


How important do you think it is to use the original date? 
:Yep, just credit both the source and the author by name (upload at [[Special:Upload]] choose and at step 5 select '''attribution''' under "Other high free"). And it'd be great to crop out their overkill water mark! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 20:45, 10 August 2008 (CDT)


Cheers!  [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 15:25, 24 November 2007 (CST)
== question... ==


:Think about how frustrating it is today when you find an image you want to use but are unsure whether you can because you don't know the date and author information. Documenting the the year and place of first publishing is an attempt to stop passing on that problem to the future, at least in so far as we can. The date beyond the year is important for photos where a season may be shown, and the like, but they year itself is very important for people who will live well past our lifetimes.  So that's the rationale, at least in my mind.  If you don't know the date for sure, just  estimate it, e.g., ca. 2000. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 16:28, 24 November 2007 (CST)
Say, did you ever finish [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User_talk%3AGeorge_Swan&diff=100222558&oldid=100206578 that tool to aid uploads?] Thanks! [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 19:13, 11 August 2008 (CDT)


== Pictures: Right way of quotation ==
:No, wanna help? :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 22:05, 11 August 2008 (CDT)


First of all, thank you for your helpful advice concerning theh upload of own photos. There is somethingg else I would like to know: If I use a wikimedia picture, do I have to copy the quotation from wikimedia and/ or do I have to mention that the (secondary) source is wikimedia?
== Would you please read the forum thread about the [[Global warming]] article? ==


Greetings, Regina
Stephen, as one of our Constables, would you please read this thread [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,1817.0.html here] on the forums about the neutrality of the [[Global warming]] external article ported here from Wikipedia? Do you think some action should or should not be taken? I will await your response in that thread on the forums.Thanks in advance. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 15:04, 13 August 2008 (CDT)
[[User:Regina Bouillon|Regina Bouillon]]


:No you do not.  The only exception would be images that were first published to there by someoneThere's no need otherwise to state who the middleman is.  Keep in mind: don't upload images that pseudonymous people say they self-authored unless they give their name somewhere, and in that case attribute to their name. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:09, 29 November 2007 (CST)
:The content is for the relevant editors to work out, Constables deal with behavior only.  Cheers,  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:49, 19 August 2008 (CDT)


==Hello==
Whirr...whir...click....Hel-lo fa-ther, thankyou for creating me. I have been running diagnostic tests on myself and concluded I am a bit poorly. Please see my user and talk pages for details.....click. --[[User:ImageUploadBot|ImageUploadBot]] 09:24, 30 November 2007 (CST)
:Stephen, I think I'm about there with the Commonist configuration. see [[User talk:ImageUploadBot]]. It seems to work ok for files under the 150Kb upload warning size and simply fails to upload anything above that. There's a bit of a loose end to translate the low german error messages, but all of the default commons, wikipedia config files all carry the same messages, so it's probably not critical. Perhaps you might have a go and we can compare notes? My next test is to see whether we actually need the bot account with Commonplace and Commonist. regards --[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 19:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)
:It seems Commonplace needs either a username with no spaces or a bot account whereas Commonist works fine with standard user accounts. Could we get Larry to change the permissions for the bot account to make it a standard user to test this?--[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 19:53, 3 December 2007 (CST)


::Awesome! I'll giver her a whirl soon. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)
==McIntosh apples==
Hi, Stephen. Thanks for having a look at the article on apples. Small thing, really, but the spelling is "McIntosh" for the apple, so the header is wrong, not the spelling in the article. Is that something you can fix? Sorry to be a pain in the nethers, but hey, someone has to do it! PS: Is there some way I have to put the date and time after my user link at the end of this, or is that automated? Newbie alert! Newbie alert! ;-) [[User:David H. Barrett|David H. Barrett]]


No go on my end.  Of course, if the developer used more normal language, it'd help tremendously.  What the @#$&* he means by "$HOME/.commonist/" is just boggling. 
== Rename User ==


I am quite sure that "$HOME" means the location of the commonist-0.3.17 folder, but how to create a folder beginning with a period (.commonist) is beyond me and something Windows, at least, rejects; so he must ''mean'' but is not ''saying'' SITE.commonist, as in citizendium.commonist. ''If'' I am correct here, still no go.
Hi Stephen, This user needs a rename from [[User:Raul Saias Lopez Aedo]] to [[User:Raul Isaias Lopez Aedo]]. Thanks, [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 10:14, 30 September 2008 (CDT)


The directions say,
== Need info about photos on Flickr ==


#unpack lib/mwapi.jar from the unpacked binary zip into a new directory
Stephen, how does one determine whether or not a photo found on Flickr may or may not be used in CZ? I haven't been able to figure that out. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 15:09, 4 October 2008 (CDT)
#look for commons.family and commons.site in this directory
#create a directory $HOME/.commonist/family
#copy commons.family to $HOME/.commonist/family/NAME.family
#copy commons.site to $HOME/.commonist/family/NAME.site
#adapt these two files.


No problem on unpacking and placing, of course, but that pesky "$HOME/.commonist/" is still the trip-up.  Also, what "adapt these files" means is not clear.
== Image copyright question ==


So trial and error. I adapted the contents of citizendium.family and citizendium.site as you showed in the Bot talk page, but I am left to wonder about whether "adapt these files" means to ''also'' rename commons.family and commons.site to citizendium.family and citizendium.site; so I tried both, but ''neither'' way works.
Stephen, am I right in thinking that copyright expires after 75 years (specifically in Ireland and the UK)?  Reason I'm asking is that there are plenty of old photos available online I'd like to use, on Irish figures and history, but I'm not sure if I can grab them or not. Thanks, [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 15:47, 5 October 2008 (CDT)


I have licenses.txt adapted fine.  But the huge hangup for me is getting the program to recognize it.  The documentation states, "If $HOME/.commonist/licenses.txt exists, it overrides settings in etc/licenses.txt."  Again, ''if'' he ''means'' but is not ''saying'' SITE.commonist, as in citizendium.commonist, this thing should be whirring, but it still does not recognize the folder when I try that.
== CV ==


So I'm stuck.  And I can promise to write some ''very clear'' directions once we get this thing going! 
Hello.
I have written my bio to be editor again, but I dont know if you have my CV or not, so let me know if you need it or if I sent it to you before.
Thanks in advance,
Jesus Prieto-Lloret


[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:28, 3 December 2007 (CST)
== Please look at <nowiki>[[Image:Periodictable V2.jpg]]</nowiki> ==


:IF the bot was not inherently designed to run on a windows platform (it looks like it was designed more for unix; "/Home", "/etc", are common files in *nix user home directories), then what you will have to do is go into the source and replace every instance of "$HOME/.commonist" with "$HOME/commmonist".  Also I'm sure $HOME on a unix account would be something like /usr/username. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 00:02, 4 December 2007 (CST)
Stephen, please look at this image ... it refers to the copyright holder as "GPDL" which doesn't make sense to me and it has no credit line at all. Is that kosher? Could you legitimize the copyright holder, the licensing choice and the credit line? Thanks, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 03:35, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think that's necessary Robert. Stephen, I didn't touch the licenses.txt file.-
#I downloaded '''commonist-0.3.17.zip''' from http://djini.de/software/commonist/ and then unzipped it to it's default location (make sure winzip is configured to extract with path information). In my case it extracted to C:\commonist-0.3.17.
#Browse to C:\commonist-0.3.17\bin and run the '''commonist.bat''' file. ''The first time this runs it creates the .commonist directory'' in C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR\.commonist (MCGINNR is my windows profile - so substitute your own).
#Shut down commonist.
#The .commonist directory only contains a subdirectory called 'cache' - create another directory called '''family''' in .commonist so that the path is C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR\.commonist\family
#Create the '''citizendium.family''' and '''citizendium.site''' files from the [[user talk:ImageUploadBot]] page.
#Commonist should be good to go now - just run it from the batch file in C:\commonist-0.3.17\bin
:Alternatively, you could create the .commonist directory using the command prompt (found by clicking 'start' then 'run' and then typing 'cmd'). Type the following into the command prompt:-
#cd C:\Documents and Settings\MCGINNR
#mkdir .commonist
#cd .commonist
#mkdir family
:Try that, see how you get on. You're right, the instruction are terrible! I reckon we should get the thing going over here and then send the developer a) Our .family and .site files b) A more expansive version of the license.txt file. PS. I was wondering what kind of categories I should tag my recent images with? Architecture workgroup? Taj Mahal? Russ McGinn's images? Flickr Images? Any ideas? Regards --[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 04:03, 4 December 2007 (CST)


== Be bold image ==
== One-time pad ==
I notice an ancient comment from you, [[User_talk:Sandy_Harris#one-time_pad]]. Does [[One-time_pad]] as it now is make sense to you? [[User:Sandy Harris|Sandy Harris]]


I can't believe you found a use for that. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 17:33, 3 December 2007 (CST)
== Hello! ==


==HTMLets extension==
Well, there's a sight for sore eyes!  Are you back for awhile?  School over? Where the heck have you been!!! [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 21:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:Getting a PhD. in copyright law, I hope, hehe! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 21:52, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:HTMLets.  Who do we talk to get extensions installed? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 00:44, 4 December 2007 (CST)
::Wherever you've been and whatever you've been doing, welcome back! Your expertise has been sorely missed! [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 22:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)


:Make your case on the citizendium-tools@lists.purdue.edu list and CC to bugs@citizendium.org.  What do you have in mind for this?  Two making the case are better. ;-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]]
== Restart of proposal system ==
::the Upload wizard, the image categorization game, and anything else that comes across. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 00:56, 4 December 2007 (CST)


:::Make it, I'll second. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 01:00, 4 December 2007 (CST)
Hello. Due to a lack of activity and attention on my part, the Proposal System has ground to a halt and discussion on all proposals has stopped. I decided to clean out the system by marking all proposals as inactive and removing their drivers. This also happened to your proposal [[CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive fair use policy|"Non-comprehensive fair use policy"]]. I would be delighted if you decide that you want to take the proposal up again. You can do this by updating the proposal record, which can now be found at [[CZ:Proposals/Driverless]]. Please do not hesitate to ask if anything is unclear. Yours, [[User:Jitse Niesen|Jitse Niesen]] 22:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC) (Proposals Manager)


==#ifexist==
== PD... but not? ==
Stephen, have you seen this at WP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-12-03/Software_issues It concerns the #ifexist function that we use for getting the attribution tags into images - its all a bit over my head I'm afraid but looks like we should be using [[Special:Prefixindex]] instead. Regards --[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 11:12, 4 December 2007 (CST)


:Yikes, let me read this carefully.... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:33, 4 December 2007 (CST)
Stephen, I wonder if you could have a look at [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2689.0.html this forum discussion] and let me know how something can be in the Public Domain and yet still require attribution, with templates such as {{tl|PD-butclaim}}? Thanks, [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


==Image:TajInteriorJawab.jpg==
:As I understand it, proprietary rights are an additional layer of legal claims that people have (controversially) asserted over top of copyright. Whereas ''the original work'' (e.g., a physical photo) may be in the public domain, and all that that implies, there are financial costs associated with digitizing and hosting such images on the web. So some people add "requests" related to what they assert as proprietary rights, while some such as Corbit go much further and argue that their asserted proprietary rights PLUS their mere watermark on a PD image constitutes a new copyright (not that this would necessarily legally hold water, I am just describing arguments).  The idea behind the template is to inform the reader about these claims over an image rather than play lawyer, judge and jury over the matter. My philosophy has been to inform people about what people say about an image as acquired from the source it has been acquired from, and let them make up their own minds. At core, we still use the image image and perhpas avoid ruffling anayone's feathers, and that's what ultimately matters. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 06:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
No problem - please delete, it's a terrible quality and uploaded before I knew the rules re anonymity - actually what the deal with [[:Image:Taj dec1.jpg]] - is "Skipthebudgie.org" ok? or should I see if I can find similar? I also need you to delete [[:Image:Tajdec1.jpg]] (uploaded as part of the commonist trials). Many thanks. --[[User:Russ McGinn|Russ McGinn]] 11:43, 4 December 2007 (CST)


:I'm right now asking someone to release a CC photo to replace.... [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 11:48, 4 December 2007 (CST)
::I see. Perhaps that could be made clearer in the template or its documentation; I'll have a go...
::Thanks for the explanation.
::[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


::"Skipthebudgie.org" is - well, how's it look? :-) A bet ol' Skip will let you know his name if asked. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:13, 4 December 2007 (CST)
:::Also, when people who undergo costs associated with digitizing and hosting an image request attribution, it very strongly seems to me a common courtesy and a way to very appropriately honor providers with attribution for such when they request it. Put yourself in their shoes and you'd agree, and my philosophy is to keep image providers happy so they provide more. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 06:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


== Flickr ==
::::Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Even for completely free works it's nice to credit the provider. I was just wondering what the legal issues were. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 07:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


Can we use any images from Flickr?  Or are there only a specific subset we can use? Specifically I was thinking [http://www.flickr.com/photos/beauty/18479703/ this might be useful] for Aleta's [[calla Lily|calla lily]] article but I can't figure out whether there is a real name for the user that uploaded it. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 01:57, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:::::Just to be clear about my last post, I am asserting it about those who undergo costs associated with digitizing and hosting ''PD images''I believe that it is a wholly appropriate an honorable thing to meet whatever is their reasonable requests when reusing the image.  Because we would not even have it but for them!


:This photo is not under a Creative Commons license, but is copyright all rights reserved; and, there is no real nameI'll approach the flickr user to get it released under the usable terms: under a CC license of the author's choice or by permission if that fails, and the real name of the authorThanks for the alert. :-) [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:03, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:::::For example: Peter Kazowski is a fan of 18th century Polish art.  For U.S. $1,500 he buys a long out-of-print book with images of such, and over 1000 hours digitizes the photos of artwork, all PDHe then takes out polish-art.com to display his digitizations.  As part of his site, he includes a "Terms of Use", which is an assertion of contract law (if you use my site then you agree to these terms) and proprietary rights ( I own this domain and digitized these images)He also sells large resolution images of his digitization (if you want a big image of a piece, pay me and I'll send it)


::Alright, thanks for the quick reply, this is what I was expecting but just wanted to get a conformation. So the short list is that we need a real name and the right CC license? Is this written down somewhere already?  Sorry to be lazy tracking this down. Thanks in advance :) [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 02:06, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:::::A CZ user decides that one of the smaller images at polish-art.com is good for an article on Polish history and includes it.  Within the Terms of Use of the site, however, Mr. Kazowski states, "When reusing any images hosted at this site, you agree to attribute '''polish-art.com''' and include a link to polish-art.com."  


:::It needs to be written down more clearly, see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Special:Upload&uselang=flickr for now. It's implicit that we can use photos by permission if freely licensed material is not available or is poor. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:14, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:::::See?   


::::That's useful, I didn't see it since i had not attempted an upload yetI look forward to trying out the new wizard! Assuming I can find a photo to upload ;) [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 02:18, 5 December 2007 (CST)
:::::While Mr. Kazowski's requests may be legally questionable, it is moral to accede to his wishesIn such a case, we take the higher road.  Mr. Kazowski's requests seem entirely reasonable, so we simply do as he has asked to keep him happy and honor his work, and to motivate similar people to provide images to the world as he has done. 


== Argument brewing ==
::::: [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 07:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


Hi Steve--or someone else--would you please have a look at [[user_talk:Aleta Curry#dance]] and comment if you need to?  Thanks [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 13:45, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::::::Yes, I did understand your first explanation, and I do agree that in a case such as your (very good) example the provider should certainly be credited, even though we're not legally obliged to do so.
::I gave a short comment on your Talk page, Aleta. Probably the best way forward is to put some text there and I can offer my opinion on dealing with ethnic and cultural issues.--[[User:Martin Baldwin-Edwards|Martin Baldwin-Edwards]] 15:27, 5 December 2007 (CST)
::::::I just hadn't originally realised this was the purpose of those templates; I'd thought it was a legal thing. Now I understand.
::::::Thanks for the explanations.
::::::[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 07:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


== How come the upload wizard ==
== Upload Wizard ==


...doesn't have a non-commercial option?  [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 18:06, 8 December 2007 (CST)
Hi Stephen,<br />
What do you think of my initial draft of a new, simplified upload wizard, at [[User:Caesar_Schinas/Upload]]?<br />
Oh, and I ought to let you know that I have made quite a few changes to the code behind the existing one, in case you wonder what's going on when you next look at it...<br />
[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 17:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


:It doesRead a tad more carefully. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 18:11, 8 December 2007 (CST)
:I'm partial to the iconsThey work with the way our brains work with associations and speed functioning significantly, in the same way a compuiter with a graphical and not text-only interface does. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 23:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


I'm looking under "I am the author" and I don't see it. I'll admit to being blind. [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 21:20, 8 December 2007 (CST)
::Sorry Stephen, I've only just noticed your reply. The new wizard has since been completely redesigned - see [[CZ:Upload]] - and everyone who has seen it likes it.
::I suppose I could add icons to the new wizard fairly easily, and I am not opposed to the concept, but I think that many of the existing icons are pretty much unrelated to the action which they represent. Of course, things like Wikimedia and Flickr have obvious icons, but what do you use as an icon for "I am the copyright holder" - or "I am not the copyright holder", for that matter! We would need to compile a comprehensive set of icons for every option, rather than adding icons to everything just for the sake of it even if those icons were less than relevant.
::Anyway, for now, I think the new wizard is complete (tweaks can still be made, of course), and everyone who has looked at it seems to approve.
::'''Unless anyone objects, the new wizard will go live later today or tomorrow morning.'''
::[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 07:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


:There are two links under thereIt's the second. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 21:31, 8 December 2007 (CST)
Very nice java work, Ceasar.  :-)


Never would have found it. Needs an explanatory note earlier.  Interesting that you make those choices for people. [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 14:53, 9 December 2007 (CST)
I wonder if you can create a tick box, '''Is this photo of a human subject?''' that, if ticked, would insert {{Tl|privacyrights}}.  


The advice there is grounded in facts about the field of photography.  There are '''''lots''''' of photos available out there.  If you think about it, I think you'll agree that we don't really want poorer quality photos under restrictive terms when superior photos of the same thing are readily available elsewhere.  Compare [[:Image:A_Palmatum_Dissectum_Atropurpureum.JPG|this]] with [http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Japanese+Maple&l=cc&ss=2&ct=3 these]. No one is going to care one minute of a wit to use a poorer quality photo commercially when higher quality photos that already permit it are readily available elsewhere, or when a superior photo exists under the same termsThere ''is'' a correlation among licensing and quality and all this does is recognize this fact and work with it, not create it as a fact[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 15:16, 9 December 2007 (CST)
Icons for I am the copyright holder might depict one person; the other, two personsIcons do speed usageImagine if your computer desktop only used text and no icons!


== "image" ==
[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


I had been wondering if that usage was clear.  "Image" in that context is not being used for its primary definition.  In fact it's #12 on the list at reference.com: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=image  "Interpretive representation" doesn't really do it justice, as it is a religious "image" on par with those in the Catholic Church.  Can you think of a better way to clarify this?  The only other term I can think of is "idol" but I don't like the negative connotations of that word. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 12:47, 12 December 2007 (CST)
== Welcome back! ==
:You know, I think we're going to run into the same problem with the use of the word "cult" at [[folk saint]], which I'm currently studying up for.  The problem is that the most precise term makes use of a non-dominant or secondary definition that most people will probably not pick up on immediately. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 15:59, 12 December 2007 (CST)
::How about the word "icon" ?  Or "pictograph"? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 16:03, 12 December 2007 (CST)
:::"Icon" might work, but that terms refers specifically to a saint, as far as I know, so it would probably be inappropriate as the Tío isn't actually a saint.  "Pictograph" doesn't work simply because these images are statues.  The article actually uses "statue" a couple of times, but that term leaves out the functional purpose of the image.  I asked on the forums. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 16:19, 12 December 2007 (CST)


::::What do principle authors call the, uh, things we're talkin' about? [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 17:52, 12 December 2007 (CST)
Hi, Stephen. I didn't realize you were back. Welcome! Welcome! [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 03:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


:::::Good question.  Nash occasionally calls them "images" but never "icons" and Taussig calls them "icons" pretty often but never "images."  All authors prefer to refer to the Tío himself rather than the sculpted clay that represent him.  This improves my feelings about "icon" somewhat but that term is only a little bit better when it comes to avoiding non-primary definitions that are likely to confuse people.  
:Hey! I'm just droppin in because Ceasar asked me a question about the Wizard. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 03:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
:::::I'm starting to think that the answer might be to simply wikilink the terms that might confuse so that people are clued in about their importance.  That might improve the "cult" situation too.  For now, I'll go change it to "icon." --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 23:54, 12 December 2007 (CST)


== Please intervene ==
==You've been Nominated!==
Someone has nominated you for a position in the new Citizendium.  They have noticed you're dedication to the project and like what they see.  To be listed on the ballot for the position, it is necessary that you accept the nomination on the [[Archive:Citizendium Ballot for the Management Council|Nomination page].  Just place accept next to your name along with the four tildes. The nomination period will close at midnight October 7 (UTC).  Article 54 of the new charter details the requirements:


See [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User_talk:Michael_J._Formica&curid=100036389&diff=100230792&oldid=100229976 this] and [[Template:Fact]].  I propose that this template is never '''ever''' to be used here at CZ. --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 15:37, 12 December 2007 (CST)
===Article 54===


:Deleted, thanks. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 15:48, 12 December 2007 (CST)
*In conjunction with the Declaration of the Editor-in-Chief regarding the effectivity of this Charter, there shall be a call for nominations for the following offices: Managament Council (five seats), Editorial Council (seven seats), Managing Editor (one), Ombudsman (one).  This shall be the effective date of the Charter.
*Any Citizen may nominate candidates for these positions. 
*Nominations shall be collected and collated by the Chief Constable.
*Nominations shall be accepted no more than fourteen days after the effective date of the charter; the ballot shall be available starting on the twentieth day after the effective date  of the charter; the election shall be completed no more than twenty-eight days after the effective date of the charter; all elected officials shall begin their term of office on the thirtieth day after the effective date of the charter. 
*Only candidates who accept their nomination shall be eligible to appear on the ballot. Nominated candidates can accept nominations for no more than two official functions.  Accepting a nomination serves as a declaration of commitment, in the case of being elected, to fulfill this function until the limit of the term.
*All positions shall be elected by a simple majority of the voting citizenry. In the case of a tie, an immediate run-off election shall be held.
*In the event that a candidate has been elected for two functions, the candidate shall declare which one he or she accepts within three days of announcement of the election results. In the event that such a declaration has not been made during this period, the candidate shall be considered elected for the position for which the nomination was accepted first. The same procedure applies to a reserve member that becomes elected by a seat being vacated this way.


::Then It should be stated it explicitly.  One of the biggest problems that I have with CZ, and Larry is aware of it, is that rather than being "the world's most trusted knowledge base", CZ is, at this point, fundamentally anecdotal and far from scholarly--[[User:Michael J. Formica|Michael J. Formica]] 07:33, 13 December 2007 (CST)
If you would like to make a statement to help voters, click the "Statement" link to the right of your name.   


::"We take a more sensible approach to citing sources. The editors we have on board actually create the sort of sources that Wikipedia cites. We do cite sources, of course, but we have a sensible approach to doing so. We cite sources because doing so helps the reader. We do not cite sources in order to settle internal disputes, or to "prove" a point to contributors. As seasoned researchers, we know that people can find sources for all sorts of ridiculous claims."[http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:We_aren%27t_Wikipedia] [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 10:31, 13 December 2007 (CST)
Thanks again for the commitment you're making to assure that Citizendium becomes the premier quality online source we all have envisioned.  


:::"we know that people can find sources for all sorts of ridiculous claims" - true.  And, as an editor, I accept that the above is the position we've taken.  The situation it creates, however, rather than begging the topic addressed in the quote above, can be found here...[[Road rage/Sandbox]]. --[[User:Michael J. Formica|Michael J. Formica]] 11:18, 13 December 2007 (CST)
[[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 13:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


::::Not sure I see the issue.  So a bunch of stuff was moved out of article space because it was unfit to go there.  ''As it should be''.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 12:38, 13 December 2007 (CST)
==welcome back?!==
Stephen, I hope you are able to participate againYou've been missed by me![[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] 20:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


:::::Ah, of course not.  Thanks for your input. --[[User:Michael J. Formica|Michael J. Formica]] 16:12, 13 December 2007 (CST)
== Looks Quiet ==


== Re 'wiki-converting' ==
I was just checking in to see how things were going, looking at recent changes and such. I've done this from time-to-time over the past two years plus. It seems like the project has been stuck in sort of a rut for a long time. :-(


Stephen: Regarding your volunteering to 'wiki-convert' word-processor files from subscribers, please see: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Wiki-converting.  For tracking, use section with your name as title. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:38, 18 December 2007 (CST)
I have ideas to breath new life in to the project and would consider donating some time to put feet to them. Email me if you think the ideas might be worth considering: stephen.ewen AT gmail.com


== Diego Rivera ==
[[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 07:33, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
:Still here. :) We roll on a 'consensus' model now with a simpler [[CZ:Policies|policy list]] that reduces everything else to guidance. Why not come back? [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] ([[User talk:John Stephenson|talk]]) 17:29, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


I'd like to use one or more of these works by Diego Rivera in the [[Calla Lily]] article but can't figure out who, if anyone, has the rights to them: [http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A4942&page_number=2&template_id=1&sort_order=1], [http://www.allposters.com/-sp/El-Vendedor-de-Alcatraces-Posters_i308624_.htm], [http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Flower-Seller-c-1942-Posters_i351722_.htm].  Any ideas? --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 02:00, 19 December 2007 (CST)
== Planning/advisory panel ==


:I'll look tomorrow, time for ZZZzzsBTW, an FYI: Mexico has the ''least liberal'' public domain laws ''in the world'': The life of the author plus '''100''' years! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:14, 19 December 2007 (CST)
Hi Stephen, We're putting together a non-public Google group where some of us can brainstorm about how this wiki might develop in the future.  I was hoping you'd be willing to join the group and adviseIf you are, please email manager A T citizendium.org so that we can add or invite you to the group (CZ-Advisory Panel).[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 02:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


::Here's the info for the first: http://www.moma.org/about_moma/site/index.htmlGiven MOMA's explicit encouragement of fair use, you might consider using that image and following the pattern at [[Butler]] in the "Butlers in art" section.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:33, 19 December 2007 (CST)
== You are missed! ==
Stephen, I saw you dropped by and wanted to say hello.  You are missed!  We're slowly building a core group of writers again.  I'm still hoping to get the software upgraded and the non-profit status worked outWould love to see you back in the wiki.  [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 15:51, 23 October 2021 (UTC)


:::Thanks.  I must have spent an hour searching just to find out which museum it was in.  No such luck on the other two (both of which I would prefer to this one, actually).  Are reproduction/copyright rights transferred with the transfer of the original painting?  That is, do Mexican copyright laws govern pieces donated to the MoMA by a Rockefeller?  I think a similar question came up in regard to Waldo Peirce, but I don't remember if it was ever resolved. --[[User:Joe Quick|Joe Quick]] 02:47, 19 December 2007 (CST)
:Hi Pat! [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] ([[User talk:Stephen Ewen|talk]])


::::Only an authoritative statement by a MOMA official would resolve this questionHOWEVER, all indication at the website is that the copyright was transferredFor whatever it is worth, given the museums explicit and unusually detailed encouragement to fair use, ''I myself'' would not hesitate to use this particular image as such, in a context of commentary and criticisms of which [[Butler]] gives an example.  [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 02:56, 19 December 2007 (CST)
::Hi back at you.  Hope this finds you thrivingHow are you faring this 2nd COVID winter?  All well hereIt's a good time to stay home and write peacefully in CZ. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 23:34, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:52, 8 March 2024

*Category:Help requests

Hourglass drawing.svg Where Steve lives it is approximately: 15:19

Thanks

Thanks muchly Steve, nice to pop my head 'round the door! John Stephenson 21:15, 13 February 2008 (CST)

Follow-up

Thanks Stephen. I really appreciate your effort. I'll get started on the uploading tomorrow and start adding more to the article subpages as well. The sound files idea sounds excellent. Meg Ireland 03:11, 15 February 2008 (CST)

Please delete an image I uploaded

Stephen, I uploaded earlier today Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png. The I found that the image had a flaw as well is being mis-named (it should be Perkin ... not Perkins). So I uploaded this corrected, re-named version Image:Perkin Triangle Distillation Setup.png.

I drew both of the above versions myself and licensed both of them as PD-new. They are similar (but far from being exactly the same) to the image we tried to upload from Commons but could not, because the Wikipedian who drew it declined to give his real name.

Could you please delete Image:Perkins Triangle Distillation Setup.png, which is the flawed and misnamed version? Thanks in advance. - Milton Beychok 02:03, 16 February 2008 (CST)

Done. I've had in the back of my mind to create a really nice 3-D image of that, but am not sure I will find the time but hope to. If you have a really large version of that image, send it to me by email so I don't have to strain as much should I find time to give it a go. You are a pretty amazin' fellow, by the way.  :-) Stephen Ewen 02:11, 16 February 2008 (CST)
Stephen, thanks for being so prompt. That image is 311 x 471px and if my 85-year old eyes can see it easily, your eyes should have no problem. In any event, the image as it now stands is perfectly adequate. Thanks again, - Milton Beychok 12:36, 16 February 2008 (CST)

Symbols image

Hey Stephen. There was a discussion about this on Wikipedia. Apparently the symbols are considered public domain because the symbols have existed for some considerable centuries before they were reused by members of Led Zeppelin. The exact authorship is unknown. Meg Ireland 16:48, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Well, look at it from two angles. Angle one: let's assume the individual symbols are PD. However, in that combination, a derivative work of PD materials, they may be trademarked, just as is the combination of symbols that make up "Led Zeppelin" (each letter of that name is PD, no?). Angle two, let's assume the individual characters are not copyrightable. That still does not mean the combination, the derivative work, is not copyrightable.
Anyone can take public domain materials and create a derivative work from them, and that work is copyrightable if it has sufficient originality. The severable PD items would remain PD, but not the creative derivative work that uses them. Which is the case here? Beats me! And I don't think its worth researching and asking Atlantic. Hence, I don't think it wise to assert it as "public domain".
I added some more clarifications in the notes section of the image.
Stephen Ewen 19:12, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Would appreciate your comments

Stephen, if you have the time or the inclination, please take a look at the list of articles created on my user page. Am I overdoing it? Or does CZ think "the more, the merrier"? I would appreciate any comments you care to offer. - Milton Beychok 00:16, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Have a ball, Milton. Crystal ksmiletris.png Stephen Ewen 00:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Time cover

I see that Prof. Jensen has put a Time cover into the 2008 Presidential article with a justification that reads: "fair use Category Five: Book, periodical, and disc covers, and promotional posters, comic strips, editorial cartoons, and closely similar". (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/2008_United_States_presidential_election) I wasn't aware that CZ had authorized this sort of usage. I'm all for it, of course, as I have a bunch of Time covers that I would like to use in some of the articles I've worked on. As I recall, some time ago you nixed my use of a Time cover until we tried to get authorization from Time mag. They sent us an email saying we could use it for $1000 or some such. You resent an explanation and, I think, we never got a reply. So, what is your take on the present use? Hayford Peirce 10:20, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Jumping the gun, is he? See CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy. Stephen Ewen 13:04, 18 February 2008 (CST)
I dunno. You tell *me* -- I've got a bunch of Time covers just waiting to be used.... Hayford Peirce 13:10, 18 February 2008 (CST)
If it were me, I'd go get after him for jumping the gun. Stephen Ewen 13:18, 18 February 2008 (CST)
I'm just an innocent bystander seeking elucidation.... Hayford Peirce 13:25, 18 February 2008 (CST)
Stephen, I too would appreciate knowing whether I may use magazine and/or book cover images in articles, without seeking authorization from publisher. Also: If I request permission for a scientific journal article or book illustration, can I offer that it cannot be re-used by others but will only be used for the article specified. And if so, how do I protect the illustration from re-use in an otherwise CC-by-sa article? --Anthony.Sebastian 14:06, 18 February 2008 (CST)
See CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive_fair_use_policy. On the other matter, check out CZ:Upload-Wizard, the section "From a copyright holder who has given me written permission to use his or her work". Maybe test it out by uploading Testing - 1, 2, 3,4.jpg. Things get really well labeled to avoid CC-by-sa confusion there.  :-) Stephen Ewen 14:34, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Re Life/Draft

Stephen, thanks for tidying up the images in Life/Draft. Gareth Leng happy with my responses to his long list of critiques and prepared to approve replacing Life with the draft version (see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Life/Draft#Thanks_Anthony). I've asked Chris Day to set up the draft version for approval if he agrees with Gareth. If so, will you look in and consider adding your approval. Thanks. --Anthony.Sebastian 13:55, 18 February 2008 (CST)

I can look in and add my encouragement as an author. :-) Stephen Ewen 13:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)

CZ:Recipe

Please have a look at: CZ:Proposals/Ad_hoc (CZ:Proposals/How_should_we_classify_and_index_recipes?) and please give your comments. Today is supposed to be the last day before it goes to the next step. However, there hasn't been any discussions on it. What do I do next? Supten Sarbadhikari 02:43, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Supten, you might use discretion and increase the period for length of discussion. At the time that proposal was initially made, no one really knew how to work the system, least of all the proposer. A lot still aren't sure. :-) Stephen Ewen 02:48, 19 February 2008 (CST)
Second. Definitely. That's only fair. That was one of the very first proposals, and I for one still don't have my head completely around this. Aleta Curry 14:44, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Hobbies

"My hobbies are...", or, "I enjoy da-da-da and ta-ta-ta as hobbies..." or "As a hobby, I do this." ;) --Robert W King 15:10, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Driving manual

Steve, why don't you propose (and drive) another proposal on Driving proposals? :-) Supten Sarbadhikari 01:06, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Can you make a proposal for that first? :-) Stephen Ewen 03:59, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Deleting an article and renaming another

Stephen: The following too technical for me.

I wish to delete http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:How_to_submit_articles_in_word_processor_format.

And I wish to rename http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Email_us_an_article_in_word_processor_format using the proper naming convention for CZ: type articles.

Will you do those for me. Those involved have no disagreement. Thanks in advance.

I may have to change the link on Main Page after renaming http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Email_us_an_article_in_word_processor_format. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:34, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Well, we can't please 'em all

Think maybe this fellow is having a bad day? Aleta Curry 04:10, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Problem with Daniel Mietchen entry on Editors list

Hi Stephen, User:Daniel Mietchen is incorrectly listed on the page of Editors under the "U" category and I can't seem to edit that particular page. He tried to email the editors but was rejected when his name was not found. Is this something you can fix and correspond with Daniel regarding the fix afterwards? Many thanks. David E. Volk

You can see the fix here - not sure how to ever automate that. Stephen Ewen 13:11, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks Stephen! David E. Volk 13:47, 22 February 2008 (CST)

BTW, one can always search for someone's last name. Stephen Ewen 14:43, 22 February 2008 (CST)

I had no problem finding him on the list, but apparently the moderator of the Editor email list did. :) David E. Volk

Buck Owens

Can you check out this article - Draft:Buck Owens. I have no idea what's going on there. --Todd Coles 22:25, 23 February 2008 (CST)

It was a strange, fannish article, with many strange features that we didn't know what to do with (the original author disappeared) and we moved it into the discussion area to wait while we waited to see if anything else would happen to it. Hayford Peirce 23:13, 23 February 2008 (CST)
Sounds like a reasonable move. Stephen Ewen 23:14, 23 February 2008 (CST)

Did I do this one right?

The process for uploading such images seems to have become awfully complicated... Image:Bessemer_process_1889.gif --Joe Quick 13:03, 25 February 2008 (CST)

That's because that category of image lacks a section at the Upload Wizard, where its very easy. :-) Stephen Ewen 13:33, 25 February 2008 (CST)
Well, the upload wizard and associated process actually made the whole process much harder because it doesn't address such cases. Will it be an option there sometime in the future? I hope so.
Anyway, thanks for touching things up. Did you read the permission email? They asked for the credit line to read a very specific way. Are you sure we shouldn't follow their instructions? --Joe Quick 14:25, 26 February 2008 (CST)

Seems like they confused a credit line with a full citation; the latter is at the image page and can be cited int he article. And yes, plans are for a section for that upload type. It will have the same level of automation as this (you might try an dummy upload with it using Image:Testing_-_1,_2,_3,4.jpg to check it out). Stephen Ewen 15:10, 26 February 2008 (CST)

Talk links in signatures

Well, I was going to ask you how to do this, but I see from a posting further up the page that this has been disabled. Sigh. Why, if you don't mind my asking - was it because people were getting excessively 'cute' with their signatures? I find that talk link very useful (as do many), so is there any chance that someday the software could be mod'd to allow just that option (as a checkbox, like "Raw signatures) - "Add link to talk page in signature", or something like that? J. Noel Chiappa 16:24, 25 February 2008 (CST)

I was going to do something fancy too; guess the kibosh is on it. --Robert W King 16:25, 25 February 2008 (CST)
Sounds like a neat idea.... Feature requests can be addressed to bugs@citizendium.org and to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org. Stephen Ewen 16:28, 25 February 2008 (CST)

Approval nomination process?

Hi, could you do me a favour and take a really quick look at CZ_Talk:Approval_Process#Updated nomination instructions - hopefully correctly! (and maybeCZ:Approval_Process too) and tell me if I have correctly worked out (and documented) how the Approval nomination process works now? What was there before didn't seem to match what I was seeing out in the Wiki, so I Was Bold and went ahead and updated the instructions (thinking that if they were wrong, they'd be confusing as all getout to less technical editors). Thanks! J. Noel Chiappa 19:05, 25 February 2008 (CST)

CZ:RBI

Could you restore that? It's a guideline that was under construction. I guess I should've said something. THX! --Greg Pass 20:08, 25 February 2008 (CST)

I can give you the text, but CZ:Proposals is where you would craft such a page, or else in userspace. You might wish to get a good handle on the current system before doing something like that, however. For example, Citizendium does not have Wikipedia-styled "guideline" pages like that, has a rules against shortcut acronyms as was posted there, the constabulary already has clear blocking and vandalism procedures, and the latter has been so negligible as to be not worth mentioning. Stephen Ewen 20:17, 25 February 2008 (CST)


Eduzendium

Hi Stephen, I haven't been participating much as of late due to the demands on new faculty. However, I am going to have my microbiology class participate in eduzendium. [CZ:Biol_201:_General_Microbiology]. I tried contacting various constables about facilitating the registration of my students, but received no reply. Most of the students (~55) will be registering in the next two weeks. I just want to make sure the registration process goes smoothly and that they are registered in a timely manner in order to finish the assignment by the end of april. These students will be registering with emails ending in @qc.cuny.edu I was hoping to touch base with you about this.--John J. Dennehy 15:44, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Great, John, I will let all constables know. Also, for your students' articles, do you wish them to be editable by anyone or only to the assigned student? There ought be some notice atop the article in the case of the former. Stephen Ewen 17:35, 27 February 2008 (CST)
good point. Only student should edit at least until the assignment is over. I'll add a notice to the template. BTW I will be suggesting this template: Biggius microbia --John J. Dennehy 19:25, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Re nominating Life/Draft for approval

Stephen, the approval process (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Approval_Process) allows that three "involved" editors of an article can together nominate a draft version to replace an approved version, without an "uninvolved" editor:

The editorial procedures remain the same as for the original approval. Either one uninvolved editor or three involved editors can call for an article to be approved. They do this by returning to the XYZ/metadata page and fill out the To-Approve section of the template again.

Gareth has indicated he's prepared to approve. If you agree, I'll see if I can figure out how to set the 'to approve' banner with our three usernames.

I'll check back here for your reesponse. --Anthony.Sebastian 17:48, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Remember, I'm not an editor but a constable. I can only encourage as an author. Stephen Ewen 18:23, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Recipes again

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Next_steps.3F. Supten Sarbadhikari 23:34, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Bonita de Klerk

My student User:Bonita de Klerk says she doesn't have a password yet so can't log in. Is that possible after two weeks? I needed access to her account to upload part of a jointly authored article that was done by her and me - Palau so that the system will give her authorship (by the way an interesting point is that when uploading an original article if two authors have contributed to it the only way I can see to ensure this is noted is by splitting the article and letting each one upload part). Is there any other way you can think of? This is obviously in anticipation that some of us glory mongering credit focused academics can convince Larry to allow credit and citation :-)

Thanks in advance!

Lee R. Berger 06:34, 29 February 2008 (CST)

P.S. there are a few problems with the anthro author page - bonita's name is there twice and we seem to have an abundance of people with the surname "user" ;-)

Lee R. Berger 06:39, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Oh Recipes!

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Concrete_Steps_Ahead and kindly do the needful. Supten Sarbadhikari 22:24, 2 March 2008 (CST)

Your fair-use proposal

Hello. The proposal record for "Non-comprehensive fair use policy", for which you are listed as driver, says that the next step (community input) was due to be completed 23 February. Could you please update the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/Executive, changing your self-imposed deadline and perhaps the next step? If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask me. Your newly-appointed Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 16:24, 3 March 2008 (CST)

Led Zeppelin

Stephen, I just want to thank you for voting for Led Zeppelin in the Draft of the Week. I never expected anyone to vote for it but I do appreciate it :) Thanks! Meg Ireland 17:03, 4 March 2008 (CST)

Authorship and Citation

Hi Stephen,

Will you take a look at this [1]

Lee R. Berger 01:55, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Nah. There has to be an authoritative decision about authorship for it to have, well, authority and thus meaning. We won't know if there will really be ownership issues unless the idea is tested under a scheme traditionally noting authorship. We should not be afraid to run that sort of pilot, I think. I suspect that knol will push CZ to this in the longer run, particularly if the authoring students - the resume-builders themselves - are given choice of where they write. This issue may ultimately boil down to a choice between having contributions chiefly from those for whom attribution is important or those for whom it is not. In any regards, given the real names policy and the practical need to credibly publish to advance careers (coupled with the limited time people have to write), I personally don't see this issue as going away. I myself worry that being cited as "an entry [ Stravenue ] on a user-generated online encyclopedia, Citizendium",[2] will not lend the project to the sort of trustworthiness that will come from, say in this case, naming a geography editor from the Univ of Arizona first and then, again say in this case, Hayford Peirce. Stephen Ewen 02:14, 5 March 2008 (CST)
Naw, it was actually my cat, Leonetta (see portrait at [3]), who did the Stravenue article. She's very good with a computer keyboard but diffident and self-effacing and wanted me to take the credit for her work. I don't know how this will effect my on-going quest for a PhD. at Harvard, however.... Hayford Peirce 09:14, 5 March 2008 (CST)
Meow. Stephen Ewen 13:47, 6 March 2008 (CST)

CZ:Upload-Wizard

I have to say, this looks pretty spiffy. Nice job on that :) Aaron Schulz 10:31, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Thanks! Robert King has helped some. Stephen Ewen 10:10, 6 March 2008 (CST)
I'm actually thinking of changing the format again; possibly with larger icons and smaller text. Maybe we need more, or custom icons? Right now it still looks very "thrown together" or "web 1.0" if you will. --Robert W King 10:16, 6 March 2008 (CST)

Stephen do you think you can find icons that represent the abstractions of

  • "I (as in myself)" - perhaps a silouette pointing to himself, or something like that
  • "Someone else" - maybe a silouette pointing to something else
  • "Reuse with few or no restrictions" - not sure on this one
  • "Professional work" - not sure either.

I'm working on an improved "icon-friendly" version of the upload wizard. --Robert W King 12:35, 6 March 2008 (CST)

Lookin' good! One idea for the ...wish people to reuse my work with few or no restrictions and ...wish to upload a work of professional quality or rarity is to create a graphic for the one saying "Free!" and another saying "Less Free". I'll have to think about ideas for the others.... Stephen Ewen 13:45, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Check it out now. All I gotta do now is add more icons, put the borders right, and figure out that imagemap deal, unless you already know how to execute it? --Robert W King 14:37, 6 March 2008 (CST)
I like it! The borders and centering needs to be made consistent, though. Also, it might be even more clear if each major section has a viewable border. Stephen Ewen 15:24, 6 March 2008 (CST)
I'm not sure how to change the color of that middle line; haven't figured that out yet. Also, what do you mean by centering? None of the text is centered. (Fixed). And when you mean each major section, do you mean the left-right, or each icon? --Robert W King 15:27, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Imagemap isn't working when I try to use [{{fullurl:Special:Upload|uselang=pd-old}}] --Robert W King 17:53, 6 March 2008 (CST)
I mean each icon/text unit when I say major section. This icon could be adapted by changing what appears in the textbox for the two types of self-released uploads. I'm not sure how to deal with Imagemap, perhaps just use the raw URL? Stephen Ewen 17:57, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Using the raw url doesn't work either!!

This might be adapted for the own release upload type. For one you make the green bright, for the less free you make the yellow bright. If need be, images of the icons with the text can be made and imagemap used that way. Stephen Ewen 18:02, 6 March 2008 (CST)

see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:ImageMap#Special_chars_in_external_url and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11504 They say fixed, but I claim either we have an outdated version of imagemap or it's B.S. --Robert W King 18:33, 6 March 2008 (CST)

Do the URL's work if you substitute unicode? See this. Stephen Ewen 18:47, 6 March 2008 (CST)

I tried %26 which is & but it wouldn't take it. You give it a shot, maybe I'm trying something wrong.--Robert W King 18:54, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Sounds like you've done everything right and have just run up against that bug. We should probably pester bugs to apply this patch. That'll fix it. Stephen Ewen 20:01, 6 March 2008 (CST)
See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL#Ampersand_.28.26.29_problem Stephen Ewen 20:25, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Who do we yell at? --Robert W King 21:15, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Our own bugs people to apply that patch/update to the ImageMap extension. Stephen Ewen 22:04, 6 March 2008 (CST)
I emailed the bugs people, and CC'd you on it. I wonder if I should have cc'd Larry also. --Robert W King 11:13, 7 March 2008 (CST)
Meanwhile, could {{Plainlink}} serve as a workaround? Stephen Ewen 01:06, 8 March 2008 (CST)
{{Plainlink}} just provides a link in curly braces, doesn't it? I'm not sure how you would apply it? --Robert W King 07:44, 8 March 2008 (CST)

On the plus side

My long-wished timeline template is shaping up! --Robert W King 16:05, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

You need to look at it in Firefox. let me know if you need a screenshot of the display issue I am seeing. Stephen Ewen 17:35, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
Are you seeing the stem just in the wrong place? If that's all, then I'm not as worried as I was seconds ago before I looked.. --Robert W King 17:36, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

File:Stem-in-wrong-place-inFf-test-image.jpg

I can fix that, but hungry first. --Robert W King 17:45, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
I think I done fix 'er upped! --Robert W King 19:12, 9 March 2008 (CDT)
Indeed! Looks good in IE, too. Stephen Ewen 19:21, 9 March 2008 (CDT)

FYI: feedback proposal

It just occurred to me that I should point you to [| feedback proposal] in case you haven't noticed it and want to fill in why you think feedback should be on approved articles only. Warren Schudy 00:52, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Credit for adapted diagrams--question

Hi Stephen, in my book you're one of the go-to guys on images and citations but I'm not sure if you check the forums anymore.

If I wanted to create a diagram or illustration in Illustrator that was an adaptation of a well-known diagram (for example, Maslow's hierarchy of needs--basically a needs pyramid), how would I go about citing the original image? My work would be a derivative, but clearly I did not come up with the concept of the hierarchy of needs myself. Would an 'adapted from (reference)' suffice?

Thanks, appreciate your help. Louise Valmoria 02:49, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Just cite the original work and note your creation is a derivative, as you note. However, this is already available and can be imported without problem, if specifically the Maslow thing is what your are after. Stephen Ewen 04:03, 10 March 2008 (CDT)
Thanks for the advice, and also for your assistance with finding an available Maslow diagram. I am intending to fill out the rest of the motivation article with diagrams explaining the processes and the Maslow diagram is probably the easiest to find, but it does save quite a bit of time knowing that there is already something out there. Some of the other processes are newer or lesser known, so I also needed to know how to go about citing the correct theory originators should I need to make new diagrams. Much appreciated! Louise Valmoria 01:36, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

Your fair-use proposal, again

Hi Steve. May I please remind you of my earlier message, dated 3 March, on your proposal "Non-comprehensive fair use policy". As far as I can see, you haven't yet updated the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/Executive, nor have I seen any sign of activity on the proposal page. If nothing happens within a week, I'll have to assume that you are no longer interested in the proposal and thus remove you as its driver, which will render the proposal inactive. That would be a pity given the amount of work that you've put into it. Cheers, Jitse Niesen 09:47, 10 March 2008 (CDT) (Proposals Manager)

DNA/RNA

I'm not sure either, but there is such a thing as RNA! That's as much as I know. --Robert W King 16:14, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

Also, change your clock to reflect DST. I forgot to do mine also. --Robert W King 16:15, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

What would you gentlemen like to know about RNA or DNA? David E. Volk 16:20, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

With regard to a revert at Intelligent design. In the context of that paragraph DNA is definitely correct, however, in the context of first life RNA may well be correct. Intelligent design tends to use modern definitions of life, hence they invoke the impossability of a cell appearing from nowhere. But first life does not have to be cellular. This is the basis of the RNA world hypothesis and probably the reason for the edit you reverted. Chris Day (talk) 16:41, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

FYI: I added an new image to the RNA page showing the primary difference between RNA and DNA. I see now this whole conversation started with a similar switch of words, to the correct one I might add. David E. Volk 16:57, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

I have an undergrad handle on DNA/RNA and have read about the RNA hypothesis in the past (I think its pretty interesting, like most of these things) and have studied the Out of Africa theory (which I find pretty convincing), er, Out of Africa Theory (hint-hint) in some depth. My reversion to DNA seemed correct because of what was stated in the immediately surrounding context. I'll let ya'll hammer it out, though. :-) Stephen Ewen 20:05, 10 March 2008 (CDT)

The simplest organisms don't have DNA. Either the sentence has to be changed by removing the word "simplest" or the word has to be RNA instead of DNA. While the step from organisms with RNA to organisms with also have DNA is certainly interesting and probably challenged by ID-people I think the intent of the sentence is: The genetic information of the simplest (or first) organisms was too complex, to have evolved at random. Those organisms didn't store their genetic information in DNA according to the established scientific worldview that is challenged by intelligent design. Christian Kleineidam 17:21, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

With respect to science there is definitely a consensus that RNA pre-existed DNA, however, whether the first cell existed before DNA is not known as far as I'm aware. The ID article appears to be talking about cells and probably bacteria-like cells. Do ID creationists acknowledge a pre-DNA world? The article cited can be seen here and the minimal set of genes they talk about is definitely for a DNA cell. Chris Day (talk) 18:14, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

i moved this discussion to Talk:Intelligent_design, it seems more relevant there. Chris Day (talk) 20:46, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

Upload wizard mediawiki pages

I can't edit those because they're locked. That task is all yours :) --Robert W King 20:30, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

The talk pages aren't. :-) Stephen Ewen 20:34, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Also, we can make it so what is there is transposed from the Template namespace. Which pages you after? All of 'em? Stephen Ewen 20:35, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
E.g., {{Uploadtext-ownwork}} . Stephen Ewen 20:41, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Um, what? I don't understand? Also, there are only 3 left to do, the copyright-expired (pdold), reusable (reusable), and print source. --Robert W King 20:52, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Well I understand that but how is that put into context of the upload wizard? --Robert W King 21:10, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Which specific MediaWiki namespace pages do you want access to? Stephen Ewen 21:17, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Well technically I don't need access to any of them but there are three mediawiki namespace pages that need revisioning; those are the ones listed on the upload-wizard/sandbox page. --Robert W King 21:19, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

ROFL... See http://www.flickr.com/photos/librarygeek/2074653299/ for an idea for "You authored this...." Stephen Ewen 23:56, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

Oops

Yeah; as you can see, I figured it out pretty quickly, though. Sigh, I've been using "jnc" as my username since '77 or so, so it's totally hardwired in my brain now! (And the similarity of CZ to Wikipedia doesn't help, either...) I was slightly cross when Larry said we had to use full names for accounts here! I was always very proud of carrying on the old ITS hacker tradition of using my initials for my account. Oh well. J. Noel Chiappa 21:13, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

LOL, I understand. Stephen Ewen 21:16, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
Once I was at a convention with some guys I knew, and someone cracked a joke. Instead of just laughing, I did a pseudo-laugh while saying "L O L" (like el oh el). It was the most embarassing moment of my life. --Robert W King 21:17, 11 March 2008 (CDT)
LOL...someone else once told me they did the same thing. It could catch on.... Stephen Ewen 21:19, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

Count Rumford

Steve, can I use this: http://www.artunframed.com/images/gainsb/rumford1.jpg --Paul Wormer 19:35, 12 March 2008 (CDT)

I can't say "yes" because it's hosted in Britain so there may be an extremely remote issue (photos of PD works can have protections) with you uploading it from the Netherlands. But not with me from the U.S. :-) I'll upload it for you tonight. Stephen Ewen 20:15, 12 March 2008 (CDT)
It so happens that I'm in California right now, but if you do it, it is fine by me. Thank you--Paul Wormer 20:21, 12 March 2008 (CDT)
  • Steven, I would like to use a piece of a table of a book (a translation from the French into English) from 1790. I found the table here:

http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/2Pre1800/Lavoisier/Nomenclature/Lavoisier_on_Elements.html

and here (Google/Dover):

http://books.google.nl/books?id=yS_m3PrVbpgC&pg=RA1-PA175&vq=Table+of+simple+substances&source=gbs_search_r&cad=0_2&sig=HtEP0n7R9A8eL8QWjtUZrPFLyMA#PRA1-PA175,M1

The 1790 book was reprinted in facsimile by Dover in 1965. I could also use the original French version:

http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mainzv/exhibit/lavoisier.htm

What do you think copyright-wise? --Paul Wormer 15:03, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

That's Public Domain. Have at it. :-) Stephen Ewen 16:55, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

Spreadsheet

Did you have a chance to look at the spreadsheet? I'm thinking that we could put only the cases where there is no doubt that it is expired on the copyright-expired upload wizard template ( I think I highlighted them with blue ). Maybe keeping it in a table form would work. We could also make a flowchart with just those specific cases. --Robert W King 09:48, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

I'll look at it tonight.... I'm off to get new glasses. Stephen Ewen 12:04, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

Your fair-use proposal, the sequel

Please have another look at it. You put down 15 March as target date for writing the summary, which has now passed. For your convenience, the proposal page is at CZ:Proposals/Non-comprehensive fair use policy and the proposal record it at CZ:Proposals/Executive. -- The Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 16:56, 19 March 2008 (CDT)

Wrong licence on image?

Hi Stephen. Please see Image:Blaas.jpg. The author released it as public domain, which I entered when using the upload wizard, but on that page its appearing as copyrighted to the author. How can I change that? Regards, Anton Sweeney 18:56, 19 March 2008 (CDT)

That's an issue that requires coding to fix...it's on my list of stuff to do. :-) Stephen Ewen 19:27, 19 March 2008 (CDT)
No worries - the image displays the correct tag anyway when used in an article. Anton Sweeney 17:44, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

Table

Created here:

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Robert_W_King/Sandbox#PD_table

On the actual upload page, it should probably say something like

"The following matrix represents the only works that are currently "Public Domain" ." --Robert W King 12:20, 21 March 2008 (CDT)

Please clarify

Stephen, I just uploaded the photoImage:Christchurch Trickling Filters.jpg for use in an article I plan to write. As you can see on the permissions subpage where I provided the complete chain of emails exchanged with the City of Christchurch in New Zealand that ended with granting CZ permission to use that photo, I asked them for permission under a Creative Commons license and they granted permission.

However, when I uploaded the photo, the drop-down licensing options only included copyright options ... there were no Creative Commons options. So I selected a copyright option which is more restrictive than a CC license.

But why are there no Creative Commons options? Please explain. - Milton Beychok 00:35, 25 March 2008 (CDT)

According to the correspondence, they did not release it under a Creative Commons license but only gave permission. That's fine, and you documented the photo perfectly.  :-) Stephen Ewen 02:21, 25 March 2008 (CDT)

Credit Proposal

You wrote: "I'll drive if: 1) the 3 author rule is removed and replaced with nothing; 2) the result is a citation, but also includes the verbiage welcoming other contribs below it. Stephen Ewen 21:12, 29 March 2008 (CDT) "

The second proposal already has these I think. Even if it doesn't, go ahead and make those changes and drive! If someone strenuously objects, they can make proposal #3 or negotiate with you. -Warren Schudy 11:00, 30 March 2008 (CDT)

Second the motion! What did you think of my suggested new wording for what the template inserts (basically adding a pre-cooked citation, as you desired). J. Noel Chiappa 13:02, 30 March 2008 (CDT)

I need one of those callout boxes so help! as the Beatles said

I'm addressing this to Steve, Rob, or whoever reads this and can help.

In response to a suggestion for the Rottweiler article, I'd like to see THIS SECTION and the two whelping photographs put into one of those boxes some of the articles have.

My reason is that the information is not integral to the narrative but is nevertheless useful and interesting, and I also like the tone in which it's written. For more, see David's comments on the TALK PAGE.

I can't do the markup myself, that sort of thing makes me ill, so help, someone, pretty please?

Aleta Curry 23:01, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

Chris came to the rescue. Grateful thanks.Aleta Curry 04:28, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

A joy....

....to use your upload wizard. Such a great tool. Thanks. Chris Day 03:02, 2 April 2008 (CDT)

Images of book covers

Stephen: Can we show images of book covers now? If so, can we crop and show only selected segment of cover? --Anthony.Sebastian 17:06, 4 April 2008 (CDT)

I would argue “fair use” for CZ authors/editors to reproduce book cover images in these cases:

  • One uses a scanned image of a book cover one owns, scan produced by the owner, owner specifies no reuse by others except when used in Citizendium articles, that specification always shown with the image, the image always a thumbnail;
  • One uses a captured screen image of a book cover on a publisher’s website, shows it as a thumbnail, and specifies the publisher’s name and the website URL containing the image;
  • One uses a captured screen image of a book cover on a booksellers website, so long as the bookseller remains non-identifiable/non-linkable from the image, shows it as a thumbnail, and specifies no reuse by others except when used in Citizendium articles, that specification always shown with the image. --Anthony.Sebastian 18:28, 4 April 2008 (CDT)
It would of course be fair use, in my view. Stephen Ewen 00:56, 6 April 2008 (CDT)

Dear Stephen,

I am a little worried about my article's images, I was following the image wizard and copying the information from the public domain about the image, the name I used to credit the image was listed as the image's: "author" I thought those were their real names... I'm really new to this stuff so I appreciate the advice. Thanks,

Corinne

You'r own work?

Hey Stephen,

Sorry, I was wondering what to do if it's your own work (that's not in a Creative Commons)? For example my image for my bio is a picture I took, or if I draw a orbital motion and then take a picture and upload it to my computer. How do you credit your own work? Thanks again!

Corinne

Michael Faraday

Dear Stephen, you are good in finding portraits. Could you find a portrait of Michael Faraday? --Paul Wormer 19:16, 8 April 2008 (CDT)

Well, I love the one currently in the article. Very nice. Stephen Ewen 22:05, 9 April 2008 (CDT)
When I asked you this, Richard Jensen had not yet added that picture and also I didn't know that he intended to add one. Sorry for bothering you for nothing.--Paul Wormer 20:29, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
well actually I was given the idea by Paul's request here. Richard Jensen 21:35, 10 April 2008 (CDT)

Stephen could I use this photo ? --Paul Wormer 12:35, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

Fair Use

Do I upload photos from this site as fair use or something else? I'm not sure what the disclaimer requires of me/us. http://academic.reed.edu/uxmal/copyright.html --Joe Quick 11:01, 9 April 2008 (CDT)

Dunno, don't recall. I myself would not hesitate to use any photos there, however. Stephen Ewen 22:05, 9 April 2008 (CDT)

'Tombstone' page?

I assume Onslow Beach/Tester2 is now no longer needed, and should be deleted? J. Noel Chiappa 15:51, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

PS: Time to archive your Talk: page... :-) J. Noel Chiappa 15:51, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

Eduzendium

I'm having trouble getting help getting a student registered. His name is alvaro cardona <dariuscardona@yahoo.com> and he says he submitted a registration request but never heard back. --John J. Dennehy 14:19, 14 April 2008 (CDT)

Drop of 'title' Question

Hi Stephen, when I registered, I assumed that I need to include my title - since in Germany, the moment you receive your doctorate, it is an official part of your name that you can't usually miss (it is even entered into your passport). You can, of course, drop my title in my name - could you please assist me how to manage that? All the best for now, Raphael. ...said Raphael D Thöne, Ph.D. (talk) 06:20, 15 April 2008 (Please sign your talk page posts by simply adding four tildes, ~~~~.)

New user name

Stephen, take a look here. Thanks, D. Matt Innis 07:50, 15 April 2008 (CDT)

Another one for the name changer. D. Matt Innis 16:36, 26 September 2008 (CDT)

Please see my questions on the Forum

Stephen:

When you have the time, please look at the questions I asked here in the Images section of the forums. No rush, but I would like whatever answers you can give. Thanks in advance, Milton Beychok 11:13, 18 April 2008 (CDT)

Your help please...

If I am not mistaken you are an image expert.

Could you please explain the notes on Image:Peterborough Lift Lock, partway through cycle.jpg?

Did I upload an image that can't be used here?

The 150kb guideline, is that merely for the convenience of readers, who might have a slow connection? In which case it was okay that the first version I uploaded was 400K? Or is the concern over the capacity of the image server?

Thanks! George Swan 16:12, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

It's fine, and just ignore the size limit. Stephen Ewen 11:59, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

Hilarious

I know this is WP related, but you have got to check out this exchange. This is the funniest bit:

Clay Shirky is NOT a recognized authority on Citizendium. QuackGuru (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 
:Even if he is not that's not an issue here. -- Taku (talk) 22:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 
::This issue issue here. Per WP:EL#AVOID, the blog is not a recognized authority. QuackGuru (talk) 23:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC) 
:::Like I said, WP:EL#AVOID is merely a guideline. -- Taku (talk) 05:47, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
::::WP:EL#AVOID is a guideline we should comply with. QuackGuru (talk) 06:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
:::::And I have already responded to this. Please, I'm getting tired of repeating myself. -- Taku (talk) 06:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
::::::Policy or the guideline is applicable to this case. We should comply with Wikipedia policy and not ignore it. QuackGuru (talk) 09:28, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
:::::::Which policy? -- Taku (talk) 21:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
::::::::WP:EL#AVOID QuackGuru (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
:::::::::But it's not a policy :) -- Taku (talk) 22:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 
::::::::::We should comply with this guideline. QuackGuru (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC) 

It's so just "spinning-the-wheels" but I love it. --Robert W King 13:08, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

ROFL. Crystal ksmiletris.png Stephen Ewen 23:21, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

Also...

I'm working on something and would like to know if you want to assist. The section is under CZ_Talk:Workgroup_Weeks "What else"; let me know if you're interested. Also, we need to finish the upload wizard! --Robert W King 09:29, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

strings extension

There has been some talk of trying to push to get the strings package added to CZ...any idea how something like that might happen?--David Yamakuchi 20:17, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

Email tools@citizendium.org Stephen Ewen 14:01, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

Changes

Just asking, when I was not at CZ for months, are there any significant changes in policy and content here? Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 12:22, 17 May 2008 (CDT)

Move lock

Hi - no hurry, but can you lift the move lock on the morphology article. We want to move it for disambiguation purposes. Thanks. John Stephenson 02:46, 15 June 2008 (CDT)

Done! Stephen Ewen 15:21, 15 June 2008 (CDT)

Wikipedia

Hi Steve,
It looks like there have been some fairly extensive edits to improve the Tecún Umán article over at Wikipedia. They have obviously been using our article to do this, because they are now citing many of the sources that I had considerable trouble getting my hands on when I was first composing our article. I think there may also be some copyright violations (have a look at recent edits). I'm glad that someone is paying attention but the copyright issues are obviously not acceptable. How do we go about fixing that?
Thanks much,
--Joe Quick 17:01, 18 June 2008 (CDT)

Let me look.... Stephen Ewen 18:12, 18 June 2008 (CDT)
Thanks, Steve. I know you've had contact with people over there who responded to similar situations very professionally before. See, specifically, the section on historical evidence. Where the text mirrors our article exactly but does not give credit. --Joe Quick 10:49, 23 June 2008 (CDT)
See here. Let me know if you want to do anything more. It would be fully justifiable, for example, to simply revert to the point where the rip off began. Stephen Ewen 14:04, 23 June 2008 (CDT)
Thanks again. I don't need any personal credit, so I changed the citation to simply read "Citizendium contributors". I removed references to our article where the information in question is common knowledge and our article probably didn't tell the author anything new and also changed a few references to cite other sources for the benefit of the reader. I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether any of this stuff sticks... --Joe Quick 12:48, 24 June 2008 (CDT)
This is great. I'd be unhappy if after all of our hard work Wikipedia says "today we copied all of their approved articles, & then we 'flagged' them so we're basically as good as Citizendium if not better (& we think we are too)" (Chunbum Park 13:34, 24 June 2008 (CDT))

Way to go!

Steve, that was great about the email from Trinity Church. That says something for sure. D. Matt Innis 07:35, 23 June 2008 (CDT)

Crystal ksmiletris.png Stephen Ewen 18:39, 23 June 2008 (CDT)

video copyright

Hi Stephen, First, very impressed with the e-mail matt mentions above. Second I just put a video onto the Biology/Video subpage as an experiment. One problem is that an older version that i had booked marked appears to have been removed due to copyright infringement. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxSLw1LMvgk What do we need to do to get access to this video? I assume we can't link to anything on youtube. If they give us permission would we host it? Third, note that the video subpage curretnly say these are CZ hosted, yet we are actually linking to youtube, so far. Should we change that header to something more generic? Or is our long term goal to host everything here? Chris Day 01:44, 26 June 2008 (CDT)

Is an image obtained from a U.S. patent published online considered Public Domain?

Stephen, I found an image (that I want to use for a CZ article) in a patent published online (U.S. Patent 6915662) at this url. I have re-drawn it completely to enhance it and to change the measurement units from USA units to metric units ... but it is still basically the same as in the patent.

Would my drawing be considered Public Domain? And how should I word the credit line? Should I credit it to the U.S. Patent Office, or to the specific patent number, or the names of the inventors?

Thanks in advance, Milton Beychok 16:57, 5 July 2008 (CDT)

An image obtained from a U.S. patent published online would be Public Domain only if the image is the intellectual creation of the U.S. gov. You know when this is the case if it is the intellectual creation of a U.S. gov employee in the course of their official duties. Stephen Ewen 01:14, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
By the way, for what its worth, for images that merely depict factual info of something that has passed into common use, I'd personally not be concerned one bit about just using it here under fair use. There's nothing creative about the image, it's just facts. That said, it's so small I can't read it without squinting, and even then its blurry and not at all pleasurable to view, and I have a high quality monitor. Stephen Ewen 01:23, 6 July 2008 (CDT)

See

Talk:LeStudio1.com --Robert W King 12:09, 8 July 2008 (CDT)

Thx. Userfied. Stephen Ewen 14:09, 8 July 2008 (CDT)

Many excellent free photos at www.morguefile.com

Stephen:

There are a great many excellent photos available for free use at www.morguefile.com. Their terms of use license agreement is available at License agreement

Are you familiar with them? I have written them an email asking specically if we are free to use any of their photos on CZ. I will email you a copy of their response when I get it.

I would appreciate your comments concerning their terms of use license agreement. It would be a great resource if we can use their photos. Regards, -Milton Beychok 14:11, 8 July 2008 (CDT)

Be careful! I have tried to go to that site three times now, twice with IE and once with Firefox, and all three times it takes me to:
and a warning from Micro Trend PC-Cillin pops up and tells me that this is a "dangerous" phishing site.... Hayford Peirce 14:59, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
The link is incorrect. Milt typed "www.morgue.file.com" as the destination for the link when he meant "www.morguefile.com" --Joe Quick 16:28, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
Thanks, Joe. I have fixed my mistake now and the link now works correctly. What do you think of that site? Milton Beychok 17:07, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
The terms look fine to me. Many of the photographers ask to be notified when their works are used but, of course, that is only fair. Just check the darker tan strip above the photo for any special requests by the person who originally submitted the file. --Joe Quick 17:24, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
Stephen, I just uploaded Industrial air pollution source.jpg which I obtained from the www.morguefile.com website. All the author of the photo asked was to be notified by email about the upload and that he be included in the credit line ... and he said even that wasn't mandatory. I will send him an email and will include him in the credit line.
When I uploaded the drawing, I used the option offered in the Upload-Wizard that was entitled: Some other internet source that features re-usable media and I also selected {{Test-template}} as the licensing option. Everything went well and the image was uploaded. However, there seems to be no way to create a credit line when using that option from the Upload-Wizard. I have tried everything I could think of but have been unable to create a credit line for the uploaded photo. Can you help get that done? I would like it to read: "© Kenn Kiser". I would like to get this done as soon as you can, so that I can send Ken Kiser the notification email he asked for. Thanks a bunch, Milton Beychok 22:27, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
I'll tidy up over the weekend. You did the right thing. Stephen Ewen 23:01, 8 July 2008 (CDT)

There are some great photos there that I'd very much like to use. The files are generally large however, and I guess will generally need to be included at lower resolution - if so, how should they be credited? Gareth Leng 03:49, 9 July 2008 (CDT)

Attribute to author; link to location of photo. Stephen Ewen 22:51, 11 July 2008 (CDT)

Morguefile template

I made {{Morguefile}} and it can be selected from Special:Upload but not from the Wizard yet. Stephen Ewen 22:51, 11 July 2008 (CDT)

could you delete a page?

Hello Mr. Ewen,

could you delete this page please? Thank you very much. (Chunbum Park 10:08, 17 July 2008 (CDT))

Hi Chunbum. Done. Crystal ksmiletris.png Stephen Ewen 00:58, 18 July 2008 (CDT)
Gratias tibi ago. (Chunbum Park 08:35, 18 July 2008 (CDT))

Can you re-name an image for me, please?

Stephen, could you re-name Image:Relative Volatility vsT&P.png to Image:Relative Volatilty vs T&P.png? I goofed and did not put a space between "vs" and "T&P". Thanks mucho in advance, Milton Beychok 00:58, 18 July 2008 (CDT)

Just re-upload it with the name you want and place {{speedydelete|Duplicate image}} on the wrongly named one. Stephen Ewen 14:41, 19 July 2008 (CDT)

helix: GOOD!

Stephen, I love the DNA helix animation! Thanks for uploading that.Pat Palmer 08:31, 18 July 2008 (CDT)

Thanks! That thing was quite the challenge to make.... Stephen Ewen 14:40, 19 July 2008 (CDT)

Category Help requests

Stephen, I asked you a question under "category help requests", but because I'm not sure that is the right place and will reach you, I mention it here. --Paul Wormer 10:00, 21 July 2008 (CDT)

I'll look into getting one this weekend... Stephen Ewen 18:01, 22 July 2008 (CDT)

User rename

Hi Stephen, here's one for your magic touch [4]

Done. Stephen Ewen 21:17, 9 August 2008 (CDT)

Image use

Stephen, can I use this picture? D. Matt Innis 21:46, 6 August 2008 (CDT)

Yep. --Joe Quick 22:01, 6 August 2008 (CDT)
Thanks Joe! Keep an eye on me to make sure I do it right... it's been awhile! D. Matt Innis 22:15, 6 August 2008 (CDT)
Wow, that was so much easier than a year ago! Way to go guys... D. Matt Innis 22:47, 6 August 2008 (CDT)

Images in Neanderthal: permissions?

Stephen: Re the images in Neanderthal: does CZ have permission to reproduce them? Not clear to me that proper permission obtained. Anthony.Sebastian 19:48, 8 August 2008 (CDT)

Photo from www.freefoto.com

Stephen:

There is a very good picture of a gas flare that I would very much like to use at here

Their rules for using a free photo can be read at here and my interpretation is that CZ would be free to use the photo. If you agree, after reading the rules, would you be so kind as upload it into CZ as [[Image:Gas Flare.jpg]] so that I can use it?

If you disagree, please let me know. Thanks very much, Milton Beychok 17:11, 10 August 2008 (CDT)

Yep, just credit both the source and the author by name (upload at Special:Upload choose and at step 5 select attribution under "Other high free"). And it'd be great to crop out their overkill water mark! Stephen Ewen 20:45, 10 August 2008 (CDT)

question...

Say, did you ever finish that tool to aid uploads? Thanks! George Swan 19:13, 11 August 2008 (CDT)

No, wanna help? :-) Stephen Ewen 22:05, 11 August 2008 (CDT)

Would you please read the forum thread about the Global warming article?

Stephen, as one of our Constables, would you please read this thread here on the forums about the neutrality of the Global warming external article ported here from Wikipedia? Do you think some action should or should not be taken? I will await your response in that thread on the forums.Thanks in advance. Milton Beychok 15:04, 13 August 2008 (CDT)

The content is for the relevant editors to work out, Constables deal with behavior only. Cheers, Stephen Ewen 21:49, 19 August 2008 (CDT)


McIntosh apples

Hi, Stephen. Thanks for having a look at the article on apples. Small thing, really, but the spelling is "McIntosh" for the apple, so the header is wrong, not the spelling in the article. Is that something you can fix? Sorry to be a pain in the nethers, but hey, someone has to do it! PS: Is there some way I have to put the date and time after my user link at the end of this, or is that automated? Newbie alert! Newbie alert! ;-) David H. Barrett

Rename User

Hi Stephen, This user needs a rename from User:Raul Saias Lopez Aedo to User:Raul Isaias Lopez Aedo. Thanks, D. Matt Innis 10:14, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

Need info about photos on Flickr

Stephen, how does one determine whether or not a photo found on Flickr may or may not be used in CZ? I haven't been able to figure that out. Milton Beychok 15:09, 4 October 2008 (CDT)

Image copyright question

Stephen, am I right in thinking that copyright expires after 75 years (specifically in Ireland and the UK)? Reason I'm asking is that there are plenty of old photos available online I'd like to use, on Irish figures and history, but I'm not sure if I can grab them or not. Thanks, Anton Sweeney 15:47, 5 October 2008 (CDT)

CV

Hello. I have written my bio to be editor again, but I dont know if you have my CV or not, so let me know if you need it or if I sent it to you before. Thanks in advance, Jesus Prieto-Lloret

Please look at [[Image:Periodictable V2.jpg]]

Stephen, please look at this image ... it refers to the copyright holder as "GPDL" which doesn't make sense to me and it has no credit line at all. Is that kosher? Could you legitimize the copyright holder, the licensing choice and the credit line? Thanks, Milton Beychok 03:35, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

One-time pad

I notice an ancient comment from you, User_talk:Sandy_Harris#one-time_pad. Does One-time_pad as it now is make sense to you? Sandy Harris

Hello!

Well, there's a sight for sore eyes! Are you back for awhile? School over? Where the heck have you been!!! D. Matt Innis 21:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Getting a PhD. in copyright law, I hope, hehe! Hayford Peirce 21:52, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Wherever you've been and whatever you've been doing, welcome back! Your expertise has been sorely missed! Milton Beychok 22:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Restart of proposal system

Hello. Due to a lack of activity and attention on my part, the Proposal System has ground to a halt and discussion on all proposals has stopped. I decided to clean out the system by marking all proposals as inactive and removing their drivers. This also happened to your proposal "Non-comprehensive fair use policy". I would be delighted if you decide that you want to take the proposal up again. You can do this by updating the proposal record, which can now be found at CZ:Proposals/Driverless. Please do not hesitate to ask if anything is unclear. Yours, Jitse Niesen 22:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC) (Proposals Manager)

PD... but not?

Stephen, I wonder if you could have a look at this forum discussion and let me know how something can be in the Public Domain and yet still require attribution, with templates such as {{PD-butclaim}}? Thanks, Caesar Schinas 06:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

As I understand it, proprietary rights are an additional layer of legal claims that people have (controversially) asserted over top of copyright. Whereas the original work (e.g., a physical photo) may be in the public domain, and all that that implies, there are financial costs associated with digitizing and hosting such images on the web. So some people add "requests" related to what they assert as proprietary rights, while some such as Corbit go much further and argue that their asserted proprietary rights PLUS their mere watermark on a PD image constitutes a new copyright (not that this would necessarily legally hold water, I am just describing arguments). The idea behind the template is to inform the reader about these claims over an image rather than play lawyer, judge and jury over the matter. My philosophy has been to inform people about what people say about an image as acquired from the source it has been acquired from, and let them make up their own minds. At core, we still use the image image and perhpas avoid ruffling anayone's feathers, and that's what ultimately matters. Stephen Ewen 06:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I see. Perhaps that could be made clearer in the template or its documentation; I'll have a go...
Thanks for the explanation.
Caesar Schinas 06:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, when people who undergo costs associated with digitizing and hosting an image request attribution, it very strongly seems to me a common courtesy and a way to very appropriately honor providers with attribution for such when they request it. Put yourself in their shoes and you'd agree, and my philosophy is to keep image providers happy so they provide more. :-) Stephen Ewen 06:59, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Even for completely free works it's nice to credit the provider. I was just wondering what the legal issues were. Caesar Schinas 07:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Just to be clear about my last post, I am asserting it about those who undergo costs associated with digitizing and hosting PD images. I believe that it is a wholly appropriate an honorable thing to meet whatever is their reasonable requests when reusing the image. Because we would not even have it but for them!
For example: Peter Kazowski is a fan of 18th century Polish art. For U.S. $1,500 he buys a long out-of-print book with images of such, and over 1000 hours digitizes the photos of artwork, all PD. He then takes out polish-art.com to display his digitizations. As part of his site, he includes a "Terms of Use", which is an assertion of contract law (if you use my site then you agree to these terms) and proprietary rights ( I own this domain and digitized these images). He also sells large resolution images of his digitization (if you want a big image of a piece, pay me and I'll send it).
A CZ user decides that one of the smaller images at polish-art.com is good for an article on Polish history and includes it. Within the Terms of Use of the site, however, Mr. Kazowski states, "When reusing any images hosted at this site, you agree to attribute polish-art.com and include a link to polish-art.com."
See?
While Mr. Kazowski's requests may be legally questionable, it is moral to accede to his wishes. In such a case, we take the higher road. Mr. Kazowski's requests seem entirely reasonable, so we simply do as he has asked to keep him happy and honor his work, and to motivate similar people to provide images to the world as he has done.
Stephen Ewen 07:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I did understand your first explanation, and I do agree that in a case such as your (very good) example the provider should certainly be credited, even though we're not legally obliged to do so.
I just hadn't originally realised this was the purpose of those templates; I'd thought it was a legal thing. Now I understand.
Thanks for the explanations.
Caesar Schinas 07:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Upload Wizard

Hi Stephen,
What do you think of my initial draft of a new, simplified upload wizard, at User:Caesar_Schinas/Upload?
Oh, and I ought to let you know that I have made quite a few changes to the code behind the existing one, in case you wonder what's going on when you next look at it...
Caesar Schinas 17:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm partial to the icons. They work with the way our brains work with associations and speed functioning significantly, in the same way a compuiter with a graphical and not text-only interface does. Stephen Ewen 23:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry Stephen, I've only just noticed your reply. The new wizard has since been completely redesigned - see CZ:Upload - and everyone who has seen it likes it.
I suppose I could add icons to the new wizard fairly easily, and I am not opposed to the concept, but I think that many of the existing icons are pretty much unrelated to the action which they represent. Of course, things like Wikimedia and Flickr have obvious icons, but what do you use as an icon for "I am the copyright holder" - or "I am not the copyright holder", for that matter! We would need to compile a comprehensive set of icons for every option, rather than adding icons to everything just for the sake of it even if those icons were less than relevant.
Anyway, for now, I think the new wizard is complete (tweaks can still be made, of course), and everyone who has looked at it seems to approve.
Unless anyone objects, the new wizard will go live later today or tomorrow morning.
Caesar Schinas 07:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Very nice java work, Ceasar.  :-)

I wonder if you can create a tick box, Is this photo of a human subject? that, if ticked, would insert {{privacyrights}}.

Icons for I am the copyright holder might depict one person; the other, two persons. Icons do speed usage. Imagine if your computer desktop only used text and no icons!

Stephen Ewen 02:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome back!

Hi, Stephen. I didn't realize you were back. Welcome! Welcome! Milton Beychok 03:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey! I'm just droppin in because Ceasar asked me a question about the Wizard. Stephen Ewen 03:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

You've been Nominated!

Someone has nominated you for a position in the new Citizendium. They have noticed you're dedication to the project and like what they see. To be listed on the ballot for the position, it is necessary that you accept the nomination on the [[Archive:Citizendium Ballot for the Management Council|Nomination page]. Just place accept next to your name along with the four tildes. The nomination period will close at midnight October 7 (UTC). Article 54 of the new charter details the requirements:

Article 54

  • In conjunction with the Declaration of the Editor-in-Chief regarding the effectivity of this Charter, there shall be a call for nominations for the following offices: Managament Council (five seats), Editorial Council (seven seats), Managing Editor (one), Ombudsman (one). This shall be the effective date of the Charter.
  • Any Citizen may nominate candidates for these positions.
  • Nominations shall be collected and collated by the Chief Constable.
  • Nominations shall be accepted no more than fourteen days after the effective date of the charter; the ballot shall be available starting on the twentieth day after the effective date of the charter; the election shall be completed no more than twenty-eight days after the effective date of the charter; all elected officials shall begin their term of office on the thirtieth day after the effective date of the charter.
  • Only candidates who accept their nomination shall be eligible to appear on the ballot. Nominated candidates can accept nominations for no more than two official functions. Accepting a nomination serves as a declaration of commitment, in the case of being elected, to fulfill this function until the limit of the term.
  • All positions shall be elected by a simple majority of the voting citizenry. In the case of a tie, an immediate run-off election shall be held.
  • In the event that a candidate has been elected for two functions, the candidate shall declare which one he or she accepts within three days of announcement of the election results. In the event that such a declaration has not been made during this period, the candidate shall be considered elected for the position for which the nomination was accepted first. The same procedure applies to a reserve member that becomes elected by a seat being vacated this way.

If you would like to make a statement to help voters, click the "Statement" link to the right of your name.

Thanks again for the commitment you're making to assure that Citizendium becomes the premier quality online source we all have envisioned.

D. Matt Innis 13:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

welcome back?!

Stephen, I hope you are able to participate again. You've been missed by me!Pat Palmer 20:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Looks Quiet

I was just checking in to see how things were going, looking at recent changes and such. I've done this from time-to-time over the past two years plus. It seems like the project has been stuck in sort of a rut for a long time. :-(

I have ideas to breath new life in to the project and would consider donating some time to put feet to them. Email me if you think the ideas might be worth considering: stephen.ewen AT gmail.com

Stephen Ewen 07:33, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Still here. :) We roll on a 'consensus' model now with a simpler policy list that reduces everything else to guidance. Why not come back? John Stephenson (talk) 17:29, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Planning/advisory panel

Hi Stephen, We're putting together a non-public Google group where some of us can brainstorm about how this wiki might develop in the future. I was hoping you'd be willing to join the group and advise. If you are, please email manager A T citizendium.org so that we can add or invite you to the group (CZ-Advisory Panel).Pat Palmer (talk) 02:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

You are missed!

Stephen, I saw you dropped by and wanted to say hello. You are missed! We're slowly building a core group of writers again. I'm still hoping to get the software upgraded and the non-profit status worked out. Would love to see you back in the wiki. Pat Palmer (talk) 15:51, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Pat! Stephen Ewen (talk)
Hi back at you. Hope this finds you thriving. How are you faring this 2nd COVID winter? All well here. It's a good time to stay home and write peacefully in CZ. Pat Palmer (talk) 23:34, 8 January 2022 (UTC)