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User talk:Robert W King/Archive 1

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Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start. You'll probably want to know how to get started as an author. Just look at Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. Be sure to stay abreast of events via Twitter. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any administrator for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun!

You can find some more information about our collaboration groups if you follow this link CZ:Workgroups.You can always ask me on my talk page or others about how to proceed or any other question you might have.

Have fun and Happy editing!

--Matt Innis (Talk) 19:00, 29 March 2007 (CDT)


Hi Rob. Do me a favor and put some licensing data at the screenshot image page you uploaded. Thanks! Stephen Ewen 00:28, 26 April 2007 (CDT)

I will modify the licensing info today, when I figure out what I need to put!

Formatting line

That line in USS Almaak and other ships is on my browser, too. I think it's the way things work, though I wish it would cut off at the table. Louis F. Sander 20:41, 7 May 2007 (CDT)

Maybe it's a known issue and is already on the forums.--Robert W King 08:16, 9 May 2007 (CDT)

history of computing

Robert, hi there, and thanks for contributing to Talk:History_of_computing. I'd like to request that you please don't strike out more of the items on the brainstorm list; they are just suggestions at this point and of course are subject to debate. Instead, please register your opinions as comments below (begin with multiple colons) or new sections on the page. I assure you we will listen to your opinions.Pat Palmer 07:43, 12 May 2007 (CDT)

too much Babbage on "history of computing"; can we move stuff to "Charles Babbage" instead?

Thanks for working on the article. I'd like to keep the Babbage part on history of computing short, and add the details over on Charles Babbage if at all possible. You might think over which place the details you added would best reside; I didn't give it a lot of thought, but I feel the Babbage part of history of computing is now too long (relative to the other sections there). Pat Palmer 14:12, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

See Talk page on history of computing for my response. --Robert W King 16:28, 14 May 2007 (CDT)

History of Computing Timeline


timeline as table YES!

Robert, I like the table version of the timeline at User:Robert_W_King/Sandbox. It might be nice to narrow it up just a bit, but that works; people can add items later if they feel a need. Thanks for checking in about it (and working on history of computing. Pat Palmer 19:56, 21 May 2007 (CDT)

Quill pens

At least I don't use a quill pen on my legal pad -- although with all the quail running around my back yard I suppose that I could catch one and fashion my own. How about a CZ article on making quill pens and one's own ink? Cheers, Hayford Peirce 21:27, 30 May 2007 (CDT)

Burnt toast

I agree with your comments. In fact I'm *appalled* by all the nonsense in it. You should see the hundreds of links that I've already cut out. I'll try whittling it down some more from time to time.... Best, Hayford Peirce 16:15, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

Billiard Balls?

Nope, No idea!!! Funny though :) Do you think he is talking about how billiard balls ricochet off the sides like light reflects??? Dr. Tito definitely keep me thinking:-) Matt Innis (Talk) 13:21, 7 June 2007 (CDT)


The picture was blurry when it was taken, and though I tried to edit it to make it better but that didn't help. I will probably try to take a better picture later and then upload it. Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 13:04, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

I've got a better one on it's way.--Robert W King 13:03, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
It's a lot better. Thanks. You can request deletion of my blurry picture. Just have a question, on your image it says they are two different types of apples, but why they look the same? Regards. Yi Zhe Wu 13:19, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
With apples, often the skin gives it away. --Robert W King 13:23, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
Additionally, I ate them right after taking the picture. They had different texture and slightly different taste, but you'd never know that from the photograph.--Robert W King 13:28, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

Are there no green apples in the USA? About half of apples in Europe are red, the others are green or yellow-green. WE should try to get some pics of non-red ones LOL --Martin Baldwin-Edwards 13:38, 14 June 2007 (CDT)

He ate the green one before the picture... and that must be a really good camera phone! --Matt Innis (Talk) 13:43, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
Flowers edited compressed.jpg


Thanks for the tip -- after lunch (no french fries, chips, martinis, or manhattans!), I'll try to make some sense of this image stuff once and for all. Is a puzzlement! Hayford Peirce 14:54, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

I just posted this to Stephen Ewen talk page: "It looks to me as if Attribution gives more rights away, whereas the other one restricts more. And the green color of the Attribution notice apparently means that it is freer than the yellow of Cc. So I guess that in respect to my own photos that I've uploaded it's Attribution that I want. Thanks for the help!" So I thank you also -- this whole image business is certainly an enormous can of worms! Hayford Peirce 17:56, 15 June 2007 (CDT)


Just a question, what is the difference between cc license versions like 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0? As far as I can read from the text of the licenses, they look the same verbatim. Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 15:35, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

One can read the CC lists about how they change details in the licenses. It is kind of ridiculous, actually, given that the changes are not really THAT significant, and that it complicates things so much via proliferation of licenses. Stephen Ewen 13:23, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

Virginia image

Sure, but it is too big to upload it to CZ, would you like me to email it to you? Also I have several other images from Mount Vernon I took during the March trip, if you would like to see them I can email those as well. Yi Zhe Wu 13:19, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

You can just get a free image viewer life IrfanView which has a simply function to resize images. Stephen Ewen 13:22, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
Image email sent. Yi Zhe Wu 13:39, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
It's great! You are an expert in photoshopping. I may resize and upload it. Your credit will be there, but which license would you prefer? Yi Zhe Wu 17:00, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
Just CC-by-sa or whatever the rest of my images are, version 3.0.--Robert W King 22:33, 20 June 2007 (CDT)
Hey, no problem, and seems like the mess has been fixed. Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 10:59, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

Humorous edits

Just saw the humor list on your user page. Glad I made the list! Naturally, I saw the edit sum just as a clicked the "post" button and said, "Oh, s**t". But here's one for the ages. On the Highland games article on Wikipedia, one sentence (I wrote it) used to read:

The various clan societies make the Highland games one of the main foci of their seasonal activities . . ."

The Wikipedia editor changed foci to focus commenting in his edit summary that "this is the English Wikipedia, not the Latin". Perhaps he should have said "bad English" since there is now an incorrect agreement of number (singular / plural). Also, I was wondering: should I now start deleting all the Latin (and Latin derivative) words from WP? The word focus is Latin? James F. Perry 12:35, 21 June 2007 (CDT)


It's a good idea to say in what way you modified the image. Stephen Ewen 22:11, 22 June 2007 (CDT)


.. for the help on Unertan Syndrome. Very much appreciated ;-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 15:31, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Anytime.--Robert W King 15:36, 27 June 2007 (CDT)


Thanks for the offer -- I didn't see it until I had muddled my way through. I must have dropped a </ref> or something somewhere -- this is NOT an intuitive process!Hayford Peirce 16:25, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks -- I'll study those and see what I can do with them. I've mostly just been copying other sources and/or recalling my old U. days many centuries ago. I'm sure, however, that neither CZ or WP will ever be standardized in this matter, no matter how much effort goes into it. Viz, for instance, the arguments about Harvard vs. Vancouver vs. CMS for footnotes.... Hayford Peirce 16:44, 27 June 2007 (CDT)


After this edit [1] the problems still persisit in mozilla, firefox and safari. I have to run but will be happy to check things from my end later on. Sorry to be the bearer of this frustrating news. Chris Day (talk) 16:21, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Left is from the template page, right is from the Scandium page.
The sticky problem has gone away now. When i scroll all the elements stay put. There is still a fitting together issue. You can see what i see on my browser in the figure to the right. Chris Day (talk) 09:47, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
Note i just added the mozilla and firefox screenshots. i have no idea which are the latest versions so i added that info too. Possibly that could make a difference? Not that all three browsers show a subtly different version. Mozilla places the text in the correct place and seem to give the best result. i don't have netscape or IE. Chris Day (talk) 10:21, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
I just added the scandium page screen shots. The mozilla one looks perfect. :) Chris Day (talk) 10:29, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Hayford the Wikicomber

Thanks! I wish I had his collection of rum, though!Hayford Peirce 15:35, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

Famous tennis players table

I sure hope so! Hayford Peirce 13:35, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I'll stop editing now. I just noticed i undid your davis info move. There seems to be a lag in the server which may expain that accident. Chris Day (talk) 12:22, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Could you check how it looks in your browser?

I have been tinkering with the subpage templates and would be interested, or should I say dread, to hear how it looks on your browser. Can you have a quick look at the Anthropology and Life clusters? Thanks Chris Day (talk) 02:11, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

NFPA Template

Responding to your request for feedback on the NFPA template, here is how it looks to me. You can see the text in the Blue, Yellow, and White quadrants doesn't line up right. I'm using Firefox under Windows XP.

NFPA Template Firefox Error.png

Misplaced speedydelete template

Re Template:Def First Great Awakening you apparently have not seen CZ:Definitions and, for example, Biology/Related Articles. In the latter, click on one of the [e] links. --Larry Sanger 11:20, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Gah, whoops! Apologies Larry, et al!--Robert W King 11:21, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Four Courts image

Absolutely, and thanks. Anton Sweeney 11:40, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Excellent job - well done! Anton Sweeney 12:12, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

NPA in Safari still a problem

NPA latest.jpg

Firefox looks perfect. I'm afraid it is still not completely fixed in Safari but getting much closer. You did correct the letter displacement but the triangle placement is still not fixed. Half way there. Chris Day (talk) 20:40, 12 August 2007 (CDT)


Thanks Chris Day (talk) 12:32, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Velera picture

The modification on Eamon de Valera picture was good, but now I just discovered that the picture might not be the Irish president since the label on the library page only says it's "E. de Valera", I just asked two involved author/editors to verify it. Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 14:23, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Sea Stallion

Thanks for the help - no idea what was going on there. I'd tried spaces and underscores both. Though do note its the Sea Stallion - the ship has no connection with the Onion Knight that I know of :-) Oh, and nothing wrong with playing a Blood Elf, except that they're obviously not as cool as Orcs ;-) Regards, Anton Sweeney 13:58, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

? fixed ?

So it's Ok on the talk page now? Chris Day (talk) 13:07, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

yes, it's fixed on your talk page. On the bottom one.--Robert W King 13:07, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

Timeline work

Hi Rob, your timeline work is looking pretty slick. But, please, check in with Richard Jensen and maybe some other history editors (are there any others active?) and get their crucial input. --Larry Sanger 22:13, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

Weird little bug, needs squashin'

Any idea why this one on the left shows up as intended:


A butler (second from left) overseeing preparation of a meal in the White House's Family Kitchen during the Bill Clinton administration.

But when I add the code to templates it appears like:

Template:Image rightCLICK PICTURE FOR LARGER IMAGEalt text
Template:GNU photo byA butler (second from left) overseeing preparation of a meal in the White House's Family Kitchen during the Bill Clinton administration.Template:Image end

updates to subpage template

Safari on Mac OS X Chris Day (talk) 12:50, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

Firefox on Mac OS X --Joe Quick (Talk) 12:45, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

Hi Robert, i just made the edits you suggested. But only to the talk button and the "?" button. I suspect i will have to make a few more similar edits to perfect the PMAU buttons. I just want to see if this is having the desired effect or not. Chris Day (talk) 12:11, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

So adding that code make some big changes at my end. Here is are a couple of screen shots one fron an approved article and the other from an unapproved article. First, while the button is 25px the space for the buttons cell is significantly bigger. Strangely in the approved article it is massive compared to the unapproved article. Second, the "?" button seems to be cut off from the bottom. Thirdly the unapproved article is not stretching to fill the 100% width, but rather, is just filling in from the left as needed. That is an attribute i want for the tabs but not for the table as a whole. I won't do any more until you have a chance to fiddle some more. Lastly, the talk and "?" buttons are too small, note they do not reach the same height as the other tabs. Chris Day (talk) 12:39, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
I just checked moxilla and that looked the same as firefox. i.e. the talk button looks OK apart from the stretch, but the "?" button has height issues as well as strech issues. Note that with 100% width issue is variable. For both safari and mozilla New York City does not stretch to 100% whereas other unapproved pages, such as the Alipiopsitta_xanthops example above, do stretch the full 100% fine. Chris Day (talk) 12:54, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
I just noticed an approved article (Barbara McClintock} which has the same problem of not allowing a 100% width on a page. I'm not sure why the width problem is only occuring on some pages.Chris Day (talk) 16:00, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
The 100% width problem is due to the differences between {{subpages}} and {{subpages9}}. Those differences can be seen here. Given that difference I am assuming that the display:table addition to this part of the code;
{|class=noprint width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" style="background:#ffffff;display:table;"
Is interferring with the width parameter, at least. Chris Day (talk) 16:13, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
try "display:inline;" --Robert W King 16:14, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
You mean replace all the instances of display:table? or just in the code line above? Chris Day (talk) 16:18, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

OK, I just did some different combinations and I have come to a few conclusions. First the use of display:inline, or display:table will interfere with the width management of a cell. You can see that since the table collapsed to minimum size when it was added to the code line above or that the talk cell insists on expanding to the available space if the whole table is fixed to 100% (hence the larger amount of space that follows the talk icon). The other conclusion is that whatever we do to one button we need to do to all of them. At present we have only played with tweeking the "?" and talk buttons. We have done nothing to the others (main article, draft, default and optional ones). I am assuming this is the reason for the talk and "?" buttons not aligning correctly with the others. Chris Day (talk) 16:53, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I just rv'ed everythig back the same status as this morning. I need to think about the implication of using the display parameter. Chris Day (talk) 17:09, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
There are other arguments to the display parameter which are on the page I linked to; I also linked to it on Stephen's talk page as well (I think). --Robert W King 17:13, 15 September 2007 (CDT)