User talk:Chris Day/Archive 3

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I am an editor in the biology workgroup | 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Current talk page (93,380)

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User:Chris day/newmessage

I aim to restrict my replies to this talk page....

My hope is to preserve the context of each discussion rather than having them fragmented on mutliple talk pages. So please check back here for replies to messages you leave, thanks. Please sign comments with four tildes ~~~~ This makes it a lot easier to follow the ebb and flow of a discussion with multiple users. Indents are also useful to help track the sequence of replies and can be achieved using colons such as : or ::. Chris Day (Talk) 23:32, 13 November 2006 (CST)

For the benefit of newcomers, I mention that this can easily done by putting the page on one's watchlist, or setting the preferences to do so automatically.DavidGoodman

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Famous tennis players

Hi, Chris. If you have a moment some time, could you take a look at Famous tennis players, a catalog that I have been working on occasionally for a couple of weeks now. Larry has just suggested that it be converted into Tables, with a template for each line, and has suggested that you might be able to help. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated, as I know absolutely NOTHING at all about either subject. Many thanks, and have a great 4th!Hayford Peirce 12:59, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm not exactly sure how you want this to be formatted. Here is one option in the most basic table format. It is possible to fix the size of the different cells, change the colours of cells, have cells or rows merge etc. Obviously the table below is not going to work. Let me know if you need more helping working out the kinks, or give me some design ideas that i can help you code. Chris Day (talk) 13:18, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
Name Legal name Birth Death Nationality Handedness Professional status Strengths Weaknesses Trivia #1 Ranking Davis Cup Grand Slam Wins
Tony Wilding Anthony Frederick Wilding October 31, 1883, Christchurch, New Zealand May 9, 1915, near Neuve Chapelle, Pas de Calais, France New Zealander right Amateur only Hit his drives with great pace and overspin; defense and baseline play Joined the Royal Marines in World War I, rose to Captain; along with the American Joe Hunt, probably the most prominent tennis player ever killed on active service 1 time, 1913 6 years; on 4 winning teams; 15-6 in singles, 6-3 in doubles 11 victories in singles (6) and doubles (5)
Maurice McLoughlin Maurice Evans McLoughlin, called Red or The California Comet January 7, 1890, Carson City, Nevada December 10, 1957, Hermosa Beach, California American Right Amateur only "Cannonball" serve; overhead smash; volleying Retired at 29, perhaps worn out from his violent on-court exertions The first of the great serve-and-volley attackers 1 time, 1914 4 years; on 1 winning team; 9-4 in singles, 3-4 in doubles 5 victories in singles (2) and doubles (3)
Many thanks for such speedy work! *My* basic problem here is that I don't know what *Larry* thinks this should look like. The only solution is for me to ask *him*, and maybe he can give you some useful suggestion. Once again, thanks! Hayford Peirce 13:25, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
This is a disasterous table! I understand it is well intended, but the formatting is abysmal. Give me a few days and I'll come up with something fantastic.--Robert W King 13:27, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
As i said above, "Obviously the table [above] is not going to work". Below is another table that starts to utilize some of the more fancy coding. Obviously we can do anything. Also we should not worry about the coding but concentrate on the usability of the table. It will be easy to make this into a template format such that the coding is hidden, however, before we start on a template those interested in using such a table need to discuss and decide on a standardised formatt. Chris Day (talk) 13:18, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, that is definitely a great improvement! Hayford Peirce 14:12, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Name and Legal name Nationality, Birth and Death Handedness and Professional status Strengths, Weaknesses and Trivia #1 Ranking Davis Cup Grand Slam Wins
Tony Wilding
(Anthony Frederick Wilding)
New Zealander Right Strength: Hit his drives with great pace and overspin; defense and baseline play 1 time
6 years;
on 4 winning teams;
15-6 in singles,
6-3 in doubles
11 victories
singles (6)
doubles (5)
October 31, 1883, Christchurch, New Zealand

May 9, 1915, near Neuve Chapelle, Pas de Calais, France

Amateur only Joined the Royal Marines in World War I, rose to Captain; along with the American Joe Hunt, probably the most prominent tennis player ever killed on active service
Maurice McLoughlin
called Red or The California Comet
(Maurice Evans McLoughlin)
American Right Strength: "Cannonball" serve; overhead smash; volleying

Weakness: Retired at 29, perhaps worn out from his violent on-court exertions

1 time
4 years;
on 1 winning team;
9-4 in singles,
3-4 in doubles
5 victories
singles (2)
doubles (3)
January 7, 1890, Carson City, Nevada

December 10, 1957, Hermosa Beach, California

Amateur only The first of the great serve-and-volley attackers

Version 2 is a considerable improvement over version 1. I'm not sure I have any further suggestions. Could use some more experimentation. What about adding the labels in each cell? This would be more redundant (no problem for the template, of course) but might be easier to read. Note this is done with "Strengths" and "Weaknesses." I might also include the rightmost three columns all in one cell, or three sub-rows (again, separately labelled). And as Chris was saying above, you might want to add could even upload images and give the table rounded borders, "Web 2.0"-style.  ;-)

Then it's just a matter of making a template out of it. --Larry Sanger 14:45, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

I agree with Larry above with respect to the potential changes. We should probably discuss the table style on the talk page (Talk:Famous tennis players) where the table will be used. The template mentioned below can then be tweeked until we get a formatt that is more useful and aesthetically pleasing. Chris Day (talk) 15:37, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Tennis templates

Just so it is clear what is possible with a template. The following two templates, {{Tennis player}} and {{Tennis header}}, can be used to build the table above. All an editor has to do is fill in the fields in the template below:

{{Tennis player
|Full name=
|rank times=
|rank years=
|Davis years=
|Davis team wins=
|Davis singles=
|Davis doubles=
|Slam victories=
|Slam singles=
|Slam doubles=
|Slam mixed doubles=

The template needs to filled out for each player and the players templates are then stacked to create a table such as the one below.

Template:Tennis header Template:Tennis player Template:Tennis player Template:Tennis player |}

Depending on the templates wikicode the templates information can be placed in any formatt imaginable. Templates are also very versatile since the tables format can easily be changed at a later date. The code for the table above can be studied below. Note that none of the nitty gritty wikicode is visible to the editor. This makes the editing relatively more user friendly. Chris Day (talk) 15:30, 5 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, that's looking a lot better, especially with the color. But why dropped the mixed doubles result from the Grand Slam tournies? Hayford Peirce 15:50, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
I didn't realise i dropped it. Don't worry too much about specific content at this point and concentrate on where you want the information to be located in such a table. I'll add the mixed double to the template. Chris Day (talk) 15:56, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
Note that neither of the two example players used here have not won any mixed double slam events. This is why the mixed doubles field was not incorporated into the original template. You should check the template for other fields that will be required but are currently missing. Chris Day (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
I like the two-toned colors! Some of the later entries in the Famous Players, such as Tilden and Johnston, have some *text* with the Davis Cup info, such as "won 7 consecutive cups, still a record" -- will this show up? Hayford Peirce 17:19, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
We can code that into another field called "Davis Cup info". I'll try and select two or three example players where so that all these fields show up in the example table. I amy even just make up a ficticious player that uses all the fields so you can get an idea how they all show up in the table. Chris Day (talk) 17:33, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
The later idea would probably be best. Hayford Peirce 17:46, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
Also, can it be set up so for the World No. 1 ranking *some* years are boldface (for when he was No.1) and some are not (for when he was Co-No.1)? Hayford Peirce 17:53, 5 July 2007 (CDT)
Just added anon player will finish off later. i need to fix the template to include the Davis cup info and the bolding for the years. Chris Day (talk)
I just made a bunch of changes for you to consider. As far as the bold date is concerned I think you will need to do that manually, it will be very complicated to code that into the table. I will add a grammar code fix so that one win is not reported as "wins". Chris Day (talk) 10:04, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
Another thing to consider is whether to put the wins, S, D and MD into the table header so it is not repeated for every player? (see the variation below using alternative templates.) Chris Day (talk) 10:20, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
{{Tennis header}}
{{Tennis player
|Name=Tony Wilding
|Full name=Anthony Frederick Wilding
|Birth=October 31, 1883, Christchurch, New Zealand
|Death=May 9, 1915, near Neuve Chapelle, Pas de Calais, France
|Nationality=New Zealander
|Strength=Hit his drives with great pace and overspin; defense and baseline play
|rank times=1
|rank years=1913
|Davis years=6
|Davis team wins=4
|Davis singles=15-6
|Davis doubles=6-3
|Slam victories=11
|Slam singles=6
|Slam doubles=5
|Slam mixed doubles=
|ProAm=Amateur only
|Trivia=Joined the Royal Marines in World War I, rose to Captain; along with the American Joe Hunt, probably the most prominent tennis player ever killed on active service
{{Tennis player
|Name=Maurice McLoughlin
|Nickname=called ''Red'' or ''The California Comet''
|Full name=Maurice Evans McLoughlin
|Birth=January 7, 1890, Carson City, Nevada
|Death=December 10, 1957, Hermosa Beach, California
|Strength="Cannonball" serve; overhead smash; volleying
|Weakness=Retired at 29, perhaps worn out from his violent on-court exertions
|rank times=1
|rank years=1914
|Davis years=4
|Davis team wins=1
|Davis singles=9-4
|Davis doubles=3-4
|Slam victories=5
|Slam singles=2
|Slam doubles=3
|Slam mixed doubles=
|ProAm=Amateur only
|Trivia=The first of the great serve-and-volley attackers
{{Tennis player
|Name=Anon Player
|Nickname=called ''unknown'' or ''The California Mous''
|Full name=Anonymous Player
|Birth=January 7, 1960, Carson City, Nevada
|Death=December 10, 2006, Hermosa Beach, California
|Strength="Cannonball" serve; longevity second to none
|Weakness=Second serve accuracy
|rank times=3
|rank years=1978, 1988, '''1998'''
|Davis years=4
|Davis team wins=4
|Davis singles=9-4
|Davis doubles=9-4
|Davis info=Still holds record for lonest game played (16 hours 19 minutes)
|Slam victories=13
|Slam singles=3
|Slam doubles=5
|Slam mixed doubles=5
|Trivia=The first to serve at >100 mph.

template variation

The following two templates demonstrate a possible variation, {{Tennis player2}} and {{Tennis header2}}.

Name Biographical Technique Record
Event S D MD Wins
Tony Wilding
(Anthony Frederick Wilding)

Nationality: New Zealander

Birth: October 31, 1883, Christchurch, New Zealand
Death: May 9, 1915, near Neuve Chapelle, Pas de Calais, France

Right handed
Class: Amateur only
Strength:Hit his drives with great pace and overspin; defense and baseline play

Grand Slam  6  5    11
Davis Cup  15-6  6-3  6 teams wins
World #1 player  1913
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: Joined the Royal Marines in World War I, rose to Captain; along with the American Joe Hunt, probably the most prominent tennis player ever killed on active service
Maurice McLoughlin
(Maurice Evans McLoughlin)

Info: called Red or The California Comet

Nationality: American

Birth: January 7, 1890, Carson City, Nevada
Death: December 10, 1957, Hermosa Beach, California

Right handed
Class: Amateur only
Strength:"Cannonball" serve; overhead smash; volleying
Weakness:Retired at 29, perhaps worn out from his violent on-court exertions
Grand Slam  2  3    5
Davis Cup  9-4  3-4  4 teams wins
World #1 player  1914
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: The first of the great serve-and-volley attackers
Anon Player
(Anonymous Player)

Info: called unknown or The California Mous

Nationality: American

Birth: January 7, 1960, Carson City, Nevada
Death: December 10, 2006, Hermosa Beach, California

Right handed
Class: Professional
Strength:"Cannonball" serve; longevity second to none
Weakness:Second serve accuracy
Grand Slam  3  5  5  13
Davis Cup  9-4  9-4  4 teams wins
World #1 player  1978, 1988, 1998
National #1 player  {{{national rank years}}}
Trivia: The first to serve at >100 mph.
Davis Cup info: Still holds record for lonest game played (16 hours 19 minutes)

I would recommend placing the trivia section underneath the entire width of the player bio and reducing the height of the cells. Remove the Davis cup "trivia" or relocate it to just the triva section to reduce the height. Also use flags or abbreviations to indicate nationality and R/L handed status to reduce the width of the bio cell. It will make it more compact, tight and make it an easier read.--Robert W King 10:48, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Sounds good. Do you want to play with one of the template sets? More input would be great. Chris Day (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
Which one is the main body?--Robert W King 10:51, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
For the version immediately above it is this one: {{Tennis player2}} Chris Day (talk) 10:58, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
If you could, please make one last change, so that {{{Davis info}}} doesn't appear if there is none.--Robert W King 12:26, 6 July 2007 (CDT)


I slapped "Nancy" 's To approve back on DNA. Please advise if there is dissent. David Tribe 02:43, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

Famous tennis players -- now what do I do now?

Hi, Chris. Sorry to be stupid, but I have absolutely no idea of how to enter any new info into what you have created. I have been playing around with the edit page but can't get anything to work. What do I do? Thanks! Hayford Peirce 12:52, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Okie, thanks for the info! Let me play around with it for a day or so and I'll let you know how it comes out -- I ought to be able to figure it out now....Thanks again! Hayford Peirce 13:37, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
I'm still absolutely baffled by this. I've printed up your comments and studied them and played around with them and I still get nothing. When I type in the tennis header, yes, I get the yellow strip across the screen with the category names. But after that nothing. No list of fields pops up for me to fill in. I've tried inserting my *own* list of fields, just as I originally had in Famous tennis players, and it shows up on the screen, but no info from that list goes into tables. I've tried inserting stuff into the Famous tennis players article and carefully imitating what I see is already there but nothing works. There's obviously something pretty simple that I'm just not doing.... Hayford Peirce 10:16, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
You need to cut and paste the fields in place. Sorry if I made it sound automated. However, it sounds like you defaulted to the correct usage and it is still not working. Can you direct me to a place where you have tried to add the table and I'll have a look to see what is missing. Chris Day (talk) 10:31, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
Ah, I thought it was automated, taking the Famous players info that I had already entered into my Catalog, with the info from each of my own fields going into the fields that you had created within the tables. As to where I was trying to add the table(s), I tried various places, but particularly here:
    • Davis Cup: 6 years; on 2 winning teams; 32-8 in singles, 8-3 in doubles
    • Grand Slam tournament victories: 10 victories in singles (7) and doubles (3)


I wanted to put it just above Ellsworth Vines, so that I could put in his info, either within your template, or, I thought, possibly my own old template. I tried removing the --> but that didn't change anything.

I can see what to do now, sort of, with the new info you've given me. At least I can input info into the table fields. I'll keep playing around with it. Hayford Peirce 11:29, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

This template is probably not suitable for this usage. You may be better off cutomising a new template for individual bios.See what you think? Chris Day (talk) 11:38, 11 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, I was happy enough with the template I had created for the individual players but Larry said it should be a table. And you and Robert created this table practically instantly. Which does seem to get all the necessary info in. I myself don't think that it looks any better than what I had before but I'm willing to use it. But I *did* think that maybe one of the advantages of using it in table form was that it would be *easier* to put in the info. Probably with a little practice on my part it will become easier. Let me play around with it for a while. But I'm going out of town for a couple weeks on Friday and I won't be able to do much with it for a while. I'll fiddle with it for the next couple of days, then see how I feel when I get back. Thanks again for all your help! Hayford Peirce 12:05, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Browser Width

Chris, just FYI: I have an LCD here at work that I use in portrait mode (it rotates!) so anything that I do I view it as I was looking at regular page, which is why the browser width percent issue came up. On my screen the interface is very scrunched and small between each cell.--Robert W King 14:44, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, there is no doubt the browsing environment is key to the design. That is an interesting idea of just blanking out the ones ont being used with a two row format. It could be made to look very tab like with the fright style code. Chris Day (talk) 14:50, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
Template example.jpg
After playing with the fixed pixels I note that what ever I do is not truely fixed when it is in a cramped environment. Obviously I'm missing something, although, it does not matter at present. One thing that is clear is that the minimum size for the tabs, as required by the bold 12 point text, is that the header will be too wide unless using a much smaller font. Chris Day (talk) 14:56, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
I think ultimately the aim should be that the interface should always be in the same place with the same items in their same respective locations when presenting them; the static appearance helps people navigate easier because they become familiar with it. If we make things dynamic it will mess with people visually.--Robert W King 14:55, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
The tab colors are black!--Robert W King 16:16, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
Fixed. See talk on subpage7. --Robert W King 16:21, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
[ec] Really? Maybe your browser does not support the short hand hexidecimal colour code? If you look at the code I added i used colour variables such as #fff (for a grey) instead of #ffffff etc. Chris Day (talk) 16:25, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
Is there a way to edit the, er, um... template template, so it will automatically include the profile stuff?--Robert W King 15:53, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
Not sure what you mean. You could transclude from a page if you are repeating everyhting, except there are probably subtle differences in the profile descriptions. Chris Day (talk) 15:58, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
I mean, for example: you know how on the templates I've been making sure to put the whole parameters, usage, wikitable stuff... how can I make that a permanent part of creating a template?--Robert W King 16:00, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Biology Gallery

Done.. --Matt Innis (Talk) 12:20, 11 July 2007 (CDT)

Did it.. though I just noticed I put them on Biology/Gallery rather than the draft.. is that where you need them? --Matt Innis (Talk) 07:02, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

That looks good. Is there a draft gallery too? Chris Day (talk) 09:34, 13 July 2007 (CDT)
Guess not, okay, just had a brain spasm. I replaced the Tux/Gallery text as well. --Matt Innis (Talk) 07:37, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Handling of PubMed IDs

How do I progress the effort to correct the CZ citation template's handling of PMIDs (see User_talk:Gareth_Leng#Convention_for_name_attribute_of_ref_tag)> Thanks, Bob Robert Badgett 02:20, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

I'll look at it. Chris Day (talk) 09:35, 13 July 2007 (CDT)


Did I do something when I added the template to Chiropractic/Timelines or did you change something. --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:16, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

No I have been messing with it, will return to something workable after trouble shooting. Chris Day (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Thank goodness. You need to do this for a living. --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:28, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
Hi Chris, I just applied the subpages9-template to the article Theodor Lohmann. The tab with the link to the subpage Written Works does not appear in the horizontal menu on every subpage, including the main article article page. I deleted my browser cache, but the problem remains. Am I missing something or is the template still under construction?  Arne Eickenberg  talk 09:29, 1 September 2007 (CDT)
Hi Chris, I found out myself: One has to edit the subpage. Then the additional tab will magically appear. :-)  Arne Eickenberg  talk 09:48, 1 September 2007 (CDT)


It certainly works visually. I'm not sure how to make the approved category place outside of the table, however. I just removed them from {{Approved2}} for proof of concept's sake.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:14, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Also, with this, approval could possibly be done thusly: there is a tiny "a" in the subpage box keyed to ifexists. One clicks it and is brought to, say, Template:Biology Approval, where they place the approval data.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 00:27, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Anthropology must suffer!

I think you, Matt, and Stephen would agree that it's some kind of irony that the article "Anthropology" is being modified and frankensteined to fit our particular needs for an organization of the society(Citizendium) that we are working in; we are somehow constantly manipulating the history of our (navigation)environment.--Robert W King 14:39, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

But is it due to our environment or our genes? Also note that Life is suffering too! Nevertheless, would be interested to here your feedback. Also feel free to attack those templates if you have other ideas. Chris Day (talk) 14:44, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
I have a painful idea: What if we made the tabs a floating iframe/div, that way you could potentially change the navigation on the page until you clicked one of the sublinks below it? --Robert W King 14:44, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
You lost me here. I have never heard of a floating iframe div. But feel free to experiment. There is a subpages 10 too, if you are worried about messing up 9. Chris Day (talk) 14:56, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
Both. Maybe. We have an inherent need to tinker.--Robert W King 14:42, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh, brother. :-)  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:44, 17 July 2007 (CDT)
Ok this is what I mean. You know how currently you click on a link and it takes to another mediawiki page with those tabs? What if we made it so each main tab changed the display of the tabs so that the links below would be redrawn without necessarily changing the current mediawiki page--maybe like a javascript heading or something.--Robert W King 11:37, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Subpages galore

Can we remove some of these subpage templates? Currently the list is:

Let's kill the ones that are known.--Robert W King 11:42, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm currently using 9 and 2. You had better check with Stephen for the others. Thanks for asking. Chris Day (talk) 11:51, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Also, what pages are currently using what tests? I hope we haven't lost track.--Robert W King 11:55, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
You can use the What links here option. See the toolbox to the left. Chris Day (talk) 12:01, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Nice to have 'em all linked in one place. Let's just wait till this whole initiative is settled and decided, then we can delete the ones not used. Never know when a piece of code will be useful.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 13:21, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Also, could both of you check the Template:NFPA? I made a change, and with any luck it *should* appear correct.--Robert W King 13:23, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Unfortunately those changes did not seem to fix the problem. Now the red triangle at the top seems to be displaced up too. See the following link for what I see on scandium. Chris Day (talk) 13:41, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Still now? (3:11 EST) --Robert W King 13:51, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Yep, looks the same as the link above. Chris Day (talk) 13:57, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Where is it? (buried underneath the nav!)
Subpage3 screenshot, more bug issues. I'm sure it's a problem with a z-index conflict or something.--Robert W King 08:52, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Hi Robert, I think you'll find that Larry placed it way down out of sight intentionally. See the absolute position of 700+ px. Change that to a smaller value and see if it works. For once we are seeing the same thing. Or is that NOT seeing the thing? Chris Day (talk) 09:06, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Absolute positioning is (usually very) bad! We should be using relative when possible. Also i think it's a layer problem because you have to look carefully at the screenshot. You can see it just peeking behind the "communication" box.--Robert W King 09:09, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Can you change it to something more reliable? I am out of my depth here, due to my ignorance of the tools (code) available. Chris Day (talk) 09:15, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
What's the z-index of the navigation pane on the left? is it defined? the z-index is like a stack, the lower the number, the more toward the bottom of the stack it will be. An element with a z-index of 3 will be on top of an element with a z-index of 2.--Robert W King 09:12, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
I did not define a z index but you're right that the layering is the real problem since I see it on top of communication links. Realise that those other navigation links will be stripped out if this style of template is utilized. Regardless we must have different default z values. Chris Day (talk) 09:14, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Also, you'll have to get in contact with whoever's managing the mediawiki stuff because if in fact we use this template, it may no longer be a template--if it's merged into the navigation. (or maybe it still will be?)--Robert W King 09:16, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
I think Larry is already in contact with the media wiki gang to overhaul the left side bar layout. It was on one of the forum threads. In theory we will not use a template, this is the duct tape fix. Preferably the subpage buttons/links will be managed by media wiki code not tempalte code. Chris Day (talk) 09:18, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Timestamp issues

As of 3:01 EST still not fixed. Just so you know there are timestamp problems i have had with your posts (possibly this is why you added that 2:54 clarification time?). For some reason your edits do not always show up unless I use the edit mode. Worse, I have seen some of your edits, in response to mine, time stamped before I had posted the my original comment. Unless you have a back to the future DeLorean car at your disposal, I'm not sure how that is possible? Chris Day (talk) 14:11, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

On the other hand it might be my problem. My computer clock says 2:04 CT, which is correct. Check the time stamp that follows here to see the differnce. Chris Day (talk) 14:14, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

No, I see the same thing. I think I'm in a wikivortex, 88 Mph thank you.--Robert W King 14:11, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
For me the time CZ generated stamp is ten minutes faster. The CZ server notes it as 19:14 in the history, GMT i assume. So why is the CZ server tem minutes faster than my local time? Chris Day (talk) 14:18, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
This edit is at 3:11 PM EST my time. (14:17 on the wiki time stamp) --Robert W King 14:17, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Strange, CZ is only running 6 minutes fast for you? This edit made at 2:15 CT. Chris Day (talk) 14:25, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
OK, CZ is still ten minutes fast for me. Chris Day (talk) 14:26, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Hold on, your timestamp does not say 15:17? In that case the CZ clock is 54 minutes slow? Or are all the timestamps on Purdue time and I happen to be in the same timezone? Chris Day (talk) 14:28, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
Ok right now my computer says 3:20 (15:20) EST. --Robert W King 14:26, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
The timestamp I made on that post using the signature macro says 14:26. Diff says 15:26.--Robert W King 14:27, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

My computer says that I am 10 minutes behind CZ. --Matt Innis (Talk) 14:30, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

That's what i see too. Chris Day (talk) 14:32, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
This edit was made 15:23 my CPU time.--Robert W King 14:29, 18 July 2007 (CDT) Timestamp says 14:29. Diff said 15:29.

I have the time zone set in "my preferences" which changes CZ time 4 hours, but that last ten minutes is funny. It has not been right for a long time though, but I don't know if it was as much as ten minutes. My time now is 15:41 --Matt Innis (Talk) 14:51, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Famous tennis players -- can the Name be tweaked?

I just added Ray Casey to the table and this drew my attention to the fact that a number of the players shown in the table do not have their names (Ray Casey, Bill Johnston, Ellsworth Vines, for example) at the very top of their individual table. Other players, such as Jean Borotra and Rene Lacoste, have their names at the very top. I'm sure that this NOT because they are French, :), but has something to do with how much text has been entered into other parts of their tables. Is there any way that this could be standardized? Off-hand, I would think that the catalog would look better if *every* name were shown at the very top. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 12:29, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

:Good now? Chris Day (talk) 12:38, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Perfect! And that was *quick*! Many thanks! Hayford Peirce 12:43, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Yes, that little separating line under the name is perfect -- really makes it look better. Now I wonder if the LEGAL NAME couldn't be made larger, maybe in Bold, even. It sure looks a little standed sitting down there, weak and puny.... Hayford Peirce 15:32, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Yes, a real improvement!
I wonder now, though, if maybe it wouldn't make more sense, and look better, if the REAL name were directly below the common name by which he is known, the Also Called info below that. And I'm not sure if I like the italics as much as when it was just bolded. Hayford Peirce 15:40, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
That seems perfect now. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 15:51, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Famous tennis players -- can we add some color?

Now that we've had a chance to live with the table for a while, I think it would be nice is you could add back some mild, subdued colors for both the left-hand column with the name (a pale blue?) and a color down across the bottom of the table for Trivia. You originally had something in both those spots but they vanished early on.... Hayford Peirce 15:07, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Those two blues look pretty nice! Maybe if you put in a pale yellow for BOTH the Trivia and Davis Cup trivia...? Hayford Peirce 12:17, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
That looks *very* nice! Hayford Peirce 12:43, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
Great. Just let me know if there are other changes you want to make. Or you could even go in and mess with it yourself. The worst that can happen is that you have to revert to an older version. Have fun with it. Chris Day (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2007 (CDT)


see my talk. --Matt Innis (Talk) 15:22, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Re: Shorthand

Sure thing. (: Sean Allen 00:01, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Re: Main Page

Thanks :-) Just learning wikisyntax --Aleksander Stos 12:30, 25 July 2007 (CDT)


Chris, let's upgrade Ernst Mayr to Developed article: complete or nearly so thanks Richard Jensen 22:59, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Subpages query

Chris, I'm having trouble following the lightening-fast progress on subpages and I've just noticed your move of Japan to Japan/Draft. Is the idea we're supposed to do this for all pages, and from now on edit and start new pages on a Draft subpage? Thanks. John Stephenson 03:41, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Answer: no, definitely not. This is just an idea that some people had, and Chris is testing to make sure it can be coded up. I am pretty sure I don't want to get behind moving all pages to "draft" pages myself. Seems like a drastic measure to correct a problem that can be solved in other ways.

"Other ways" = (for Chris' benefit) if an article is unapproved, then we can use the subpages disclaimer to put a standard disclaimer atop all pages. Yeah, finally a way to do that! --Larry Sanger 03:57, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Further on this, Chris: where exactly was that discussion where people came up with the idea of putting all unapproved articles on draft pages? --Larry Sanger 04:01, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the update on my Talk, and for this nuts-and-bolts work. John Stephenson 03:53, 30 July 2007 (CDT)


See [1] and look under "Subdisciplines." Apparently, {{subpages4}} is screwing up the functionality of the other templates on that page. But I haven't got a clue how it's happening! Please fix it... --Larry Sanger 03:55, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

Subpage template appears odd on Life article and draft

Chris: Subpage template appears odd on Life article and draft.  ?? --Anthony.Sebastian (Talk) 13:05, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

Just testing it, will be done soon I hope.

Link to instructions

Hi Chris,

We've got to decide where to link to the instructions pages for the different subpage types. It could be a tiny link (like the definitions links), maybe just a linked asterisk or other single character widget, on the subpage template itself; or, it could be at the top of each subpage, again in an unobtrusive place. I think I'd prefer the former. With tiny links there in the template, people will wonder what the links are, click on them, learn about the rules, and know that they are easily accessible from an obvious place. This will help spread awareness of the guidelines. This is also better than putting them on the content pages themselves simply because I'd prefer not to have contributor-aimed content (even a small link) there. Anyway, these are just some preliminary thoughts, and you know better than anyone that we can change it later. --Larry Sanger 07:04, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

How do you like a superscript theta? Chris Day (talk) 10:00, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for adding this, I like it generally. I'm not sure about superscript theta, maybe not, because it moves the words on the buttons toward the lower part of the button. I don't know how many you tried out, but you could try lots of different widgets, if they're a small size. Such as * ^ # > or any of a zillion symbols (like theta). --Larry Sanger 13:31, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I did not check any, just picked one and went with it. The ^ and > both look promising. We can experiment and see which pans out the best. Chris Day (talk) 13:37, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
Check out the little arrow. Default and optional buttons have different sized arrows at present. Any preference? Or something else? Chris Day (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Article metadata

Hi Chris,

One other thing re template design: "Information" really isn't a good name for it. This is too easily confused with "About subpages," and worse, it will make users think that if they click there, they'll find more information about the topic, instead of metainfo about the article. We need to label it "metadata" or "article metadata" because that's what it is. Then we need to move it down with the other three non-user-facing links. Those three links should probably be single spaced, or otherwise made unobtrusive and underemphasized vs. the subpage buttons. --Larry Sanger 07:12, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Kind of did this. But what is the style command for linespace? Chris Day (talk) 10:27, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

This is a fine solution. Looks real slick! Thanks! Without the word "information" visible in the link itself, and with the icon being separate from the buttons, as it doesn't matter that the pagename is confusable with content. I'd still prefer "Metadata" but no big deal. "Info" is shorter anyway. --Larry Sanger 13:28, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

I think we should change to metadata while we can, we might regret it if we don't make these tweeks now. Style changes, such as changing icons etc, can always be done later. But the metadata cannot be done without a lot of hassel if too many info tempalte are created. Chris Day (talk) 13:35, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Jefferson Airplane

Do I fill it just as a regular checklist, or there is some other procedure? Sorry that I am not familiar with the info subpage. Best. Yi Zhe Wu 13:02, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Just like a regular check list. Note the fields in the top section are identical. I thought you'd like to have a try since that is the way to get familiar with these subpage changes. All the best. Chris Day (talk) 13:04, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
Done, wow the checklist automatically appeared in the talk page. Best. Yi Zhe Wu 13:08, 2 August 2007 (CDT)
It's like magic :) Note also the categories can now be anywhere, currently on the Draft article unless they are approved and then they go on the main article. Their location has not been finalised yet. Chris Day (talk) 13:10, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Sysop authority--what power!

Chris, I've given you sysop rights in the system, just to facilitate your work on templates. As you aren't a Constable, please don't use this to do anything else. (But the temptation, I know, must be irresistible!) --Larry Sanger 01:15, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

That's great! I've been relying on Matt and Stephen. it will help too since I can delete all the mess i have created. I'll particulalry need it when transfering the final product to the {{subpages}} since I'll need a lot of pages deleted to open them up for moves. Thanks. Chris

subpages4 in Logic

As far as I can understand it, subpages4 includes the checklist (a kind of magic,BTW :-) ) I have a minor remark (perhaps you know and you're working on it): the checklist there didn't generate the related categories (noticed on weekly CZ:unchecklisted update) Aleksander Stos 17:51, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

Currently they all appear on the draft page but I will update that soon and probably place most on the article page. This is good since now the items in the cateories don't all start with "Talk:". In theory, when I'm finished every category will be placed automatically. It's not magic by the way :) The template reads all its info from one centralised location (See Template:Logic/Info). Chris Day (talk) 18:57, 5 August 2007 (CDT)
Thanks, I didn't know. It would be great if we could avoid double workgroup tagging (on the article page and then in the checklist). Do I understand well that you work in this direction? Aleksander Stos 05:15, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
Yes tag once and everthing else is placed automatically on the whole cluster. It will help keep things consistent too. Chris Day (talk) 08:01, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Comments on your work

First, thanks loads for all this. It's very impressive and has come a long way from my first attempts.

I had an idea for a possible way to take care of the overlapping table problems: will it help to specify the precise dimensions of the table? Try it out and see (if you haven't already). One technical problem here is that it will require that you calculate the number of subpages, in order to say how many pixels high the table is. And even then it may not work in all browsers...?

I'm not entirely convinced that we want to have just one talk page per cluster. This adds many more mouseclicks to set up and maintain a whole cluster, and requires that people learn yet one more thing (i.e., to redirect all talk pages to the main talk page). Particularly in the long run, if and when we add such features as Debate Guides, it will be really obviously a bad idea to have just one talk page.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to get someone to change the watchlist code so that, if T is on someone's watchlist, all subpages of T are as well?

It's really important that we think about keeping things as simple as possible. Subpages are powerful as a concept, and that justifies such abominations as the metadata page, but even that should be kept as simple as possible. All new complexifications really must pay their way, and that's a high price!

It has not been decided (only suggested) that we include a watchlist category (being discussed on the forums--I'm not convinced yet).

Also, actually, I think we ought to remove Debate Guide and News Guide from the list of canonical types (for now). Starting these up will require considerably more planning--and discussion--and I don't think we should do a "half-assed" job of either one.

It also makes me a little nervous that you're using a different checklist template. Is it based on the most recent version of {[tl|checklist}}? Some months ago I recall there were subtle changes in the latter that should not be lost. When you want to work on the checklist and metadata page generally, let me know, because I'm going to have a lot of input, and it's going to require a lot of discussion and probably a resolution.

Once the precise shape of our pages is settled, it might be a good idea to create a "bot" that will automatically set up a page. You type the name in, and it does all the rest.

Why do we want to transclude the approval page to the talk page? That will just confuse people. Better to have the info in one place, no? I could be wrong, that's just my initial reaction. --Larry Sanger 02:13, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

In response to most of this, anything I have done is an experiment so i do not intent to launch most of this on the other pages without discussion. The checklists are all based on the most recent version. I have to create new ones otherwise it will have undesirable effects on the current pages. There are two checklist templates used in the sugpages template. One to place the graph on the talk page. The other to place the categories.
The watchlist category is ultra speculative. I'm not sure I like it, I had request a few times that the watchlist code get changed on the forums but there was no comment so I'm still not sure if it is possible. My original idea is that there should be a watchlist for each workgroup that would include talk pages article and draft (and subpages too, now).
Tables i have not got to yet but it should be easy to fix the size.
The transclusion idea was from a long time ago. The original reasons were to advertise the approval process on the talk page. However, now people are becoming more familiar with the sugpage concept they will probably just look at the approval page without the need of a transclusion prompt.
I think the metatable is no more complicated than the current checklist and people seem to get the hang of that. Detailed intructions will help. i have included the approval and toapprove information there too but that was to make it easier for constables. That could be on a seperate page? More later, I don't have time to fully answer this right now. Chris Day (talk) 07:35, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

One other item: I think we should go ahead and rename "Tables" back to "Catalogs." The name "catalog" seems to have stuck, and since (I stipulate) we will have a switch indicating AmE or BrE, we can spell it either "Catalogs" or "Catalogues" in the table. I actually think this will be a nice little touch. --Larry Sanger 08:16, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

We can tweek the names later, that is relatively trivial, as long as it gets done before we implement subpages globally. I willl incorporate the AmE or BrE into the dialect field (is that what we want to call it?) and create a switch.
Another important step that needs to be addressed is the approval process and how it will integrate with the subpages template (using the metadata page). I stated a thread on this in the forums. This is also a good chance to tweek the headers. Chris Day (talk) 22:16, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Please tell me I am not dreaming

I'm pretty sure I just fixed the NFPA template for Firefox! Verify!!!!!--Robert W King 14:44, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

CZ Live issue

Chris, thanks for the fixes you did on Gay community - I noticed though that "Category:CZ Live" was no longer working, so I manually added it into the edit screen of the article, and it now functions as intended. Not sure if that is a known issue or one I should alert you to. --Ian Johnson 10:30, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for noting that. In the big picture CZ live is actually redundant with internal, in the long term i plan to remove it. But this has not be fully discussed so it is best to add it back. It is an experimental tempalte so ypou may see other strange things happen. Chris Day (talk) 10:35, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Summary of Metadata concept

I admit that I haven't kept up on the metadata section, but what is it that the metadata template is supposed to achieve? (I'm trying to see if I can offer a solution). --Robert W King 11:53, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks, that's exactly the input I'm hoping for. If you read the explanation on the {{subpages2}} it may become more clear. Basically, it is a central location for all variable relating to the article. As the article grows, improves and eventually goes through approval the metadata changes. With those changes categories change and different tempaltes need to be placed. This happens automatically in response to any author who updates the matadata. This is great since no one has to be making sure that the categories on all the clusters pages are uptodate.
The problem relates to the sub subpages. If you go to the Test article, you can see examples of sub-subpages being linked to from the timeline subpage, the tables subpage and the signed articles subpage. When the metadata is located in the template namespace the navigation boxes will function fine on the sub-subpages. However, there is a desire to have the metadata on a subpage of the cluster, i.e. in the article namespace, rather than in the template namespace. This causes a problem since the {{subpages2}} template cannot retrive data from the metadata page when it is placed on a sub-subpage if the metadata page is in article namespace.
So what is the nitty gritty of all this? First, how does the subpages template retrieve data from the metadata page? If retrieving the article status from a template we use {{{{BASEPAGENAME}}/Metadata|info=status}} which will return a value between 0-4 except on sub-subpages, then we use {{../../Metadata|info=status}}. If the metadata is in the article namespace, rather than the template namespace, the template can retrieve the status of article with {{:{{BASEPAGENAME}}/Metadata|info=status}} (note the colon). The problem is that anything ahead of the ../../ code will prevent it from working. So, from the subpages I cannot use the equivalent code {{:../../Metadata|info=status}}.
So in summary. My problem is how can the template, when placed on a sub-subpage, such as a signed article, read information from the metadata page when the metadata page is in article namespace?
Does this make sense? Chris Day (talk) 12:18, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

OK I think I just answered my own question. When looking here I see I made a dumb mistake with repect to a typo that I carried into the coding of the template. Note here I say that {{{{:../../Metadata|info=status}} does not work for me. But actually it should be {{:{{../../Metadata|info=status}} (note subtle change in location of the colon). I will have to test this but I see no reason why this would not solve the problem. I'll get back to you after testing it. Thanks for making me think about this is a new way. If I had not written above I never would have seen this. Chris Day (talk) 12:30, 17 August 2007 (CDT) OK, i was too rushed, strike the above, unfortunately. The problem as i first posed above still stands, i.e. how can a template, when placed on a sub-subpage, such as a signed article, read information from the metadata page when the metadata page is in article namespace? Chris Day (talk) 14:20, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

Chris, can you make a quick graphical mockup of what you mean, either by using bullet points or something? I'm trying my darndest to understand, and I know you understand because you're the one creating it, but it's coming out like mishmash.--Robert W King 14:22, 17 August 2007 (CDT)
Do I need to retain the sandbox pages that we created last week, or was the solution figured out? --Robert W King 11:56, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
No solution was figured out. Most of that is for your own reference, so if you delete there is no problem with me. Chris Day (talk) 12:01, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
Gosh darnit. I'll keep it, might still be useful.--Robert W King 13:53, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

The answer is, we need a new "magic word". See and --Robert W King 14:10, 21 August 2007 (CDT)


Chris, can you help me out with subpage-ifying APP? I've been trying to get caught up on the last month of subpage template revisions and can't quite figure out what the current preferred method is. All I need right now are "Bibliography" and "External Links" sections. Even better if there's an easy mechanism to create a custom "Gene Function" subpage (but not necessary now)... Thanks, Andrew Su 11:41, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

This is still in flux but the {{subpages2}} (vertical navigation box) or {{subpages9}} (horizontal navigation box) are the two most up to date. There is a description of how to set up the Template:APP/Metadata page that is critical for it to work on the tempple pages. I think we can definitley suggest a gene function subpage. That would be a good one. I'll keep an eye on your edits to see if you're heading in the right direction. Chris Day (talk) 12:00, 20 August 2007 (CDT)
a gene-specific subpage for "3D structures" would also probably be good to have... maybe a table with PDB IDs, links to RSCB, and a static image Andrew Su 14:17, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
We can do all this, there is no limit to subpages. The only catch is that they cannot be random and have to be hardwired into the system, but that should be no problem. Come up with your wish list and i can write it up into a proposal. I have already initiated one for a history subpage, which is very pertinent to many articles in biology. Chris Day (talk) 14:41, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
Okay, will do. Right now, I think I'd like to see Bibliography, External Links, Function, and 3D Structure. But let's hold off on finalizing that until we get the content finalized and maybe some additional feedback... Andrew Su 14:48, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
Obviously Bibliography, External Links are already active but function and 3D structure sound good to me. Chris Day (talk) 14:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

The gallery looks great. Enlighten me, how is it that you added it as a subpage for the APP cluster? I think I read that new subpage types need to be approved, but it's still not clear to me how approved subpage types are added to specific clusters. Andrew Su 17:06, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

If you press the red button (U for unused) you can see the choices of subpages available. These are the approved ones to date. Many more will be added. Only a few subpages, such as related articles, are default tabs. Click on the purple button (? at top) to find out more about the various subpages. Chris Day (talk) 17:35, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
Ahh, edit to add. That was the part I was missing... Nice... Thanks, Andrew Su

Approval typo

There must be some kind of cognitive misbehavior that makes you repeatedly make the same typo! (Approvel) ;D --Robert W King 13:14, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

Or a bad key board with sticky keys, which is my excuse in most cases. As far as approvel, close enough, right? I have no idea why I do that, thinking ahead I guess, and lazy proof reading. Thanks for any corrections you make in advance :) Chris Day (talk) 13:19, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

My excuse for this one was it was a cut and paste job from checklist5. Chris Day (talk) 13:21, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
As long as there is no (el) L in approve you have my all-approval. --Robert W King 13:22, 21 August 2007 (CDT)


Thanks for the notice. Also for Space debris, I just set up its subpages system, but the gallery page wouldn't show up in the main box, can you take a look there please? Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 09:30, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Looks good, i assume you solved the problem? Chris Day (talk) 10:17, 22 August 2007 (CDT)

Appearance of subpages9

I was testing out the latest code--pretty sweet. Good job, Chris, we are in your debt.

Glad you like it, and thanks. Chris Day (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

If as appears likely we will be using that travesty of a popular template, subpages9, I'll have two requests: (1) the instructions must be rewritten and made much clearer--and placed on CZ:Subpages; also, (2) the appearance problems for the configuration most commonly used, Windows + IE 7, just have to be fixed.

Also, actually, I have this desperate hope that someone will write a script that we can put in the sidebar. It will take a pagename and proceed to create all the apparatus automatically. The procedure now is simply too complicated for most Citizens, and yet it's automatable. --Larry Sanger 08:41, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

I would imagine it is easy to automate since all the pagenames and content can be plugged into a formula. It is beyond my knowledge.
I agree that the bugs need to be fixed. Do you see the same clipping off of the buttons in the vertical version?
Also agree that the intrustions are not clear enough. The approval process page is also in desperate need of an overhaul, bearing in mind the predominant use of the metadata page for the process in the current subpages set up. Chris Day (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

Author request for editor

Chris, see this concerning potential for author request for editor ToApprove... --Matt Innis (Talk) 09:20, 23 August 2007 (CDT)

subpage help needed

Hi Chris, Could you take a look at Talk:Amateur_radio? This refers to subpages4, and I don't understand why it insists on showing up in the CZ:Computers_Workgroup. I don't know anything about subpages, but this doesn't seem right. I just removed the [Amateur radio] article itself from CZ:Computers_Workgroup but the talk page still suggests in in the Computers Workgroup, I think it's due to this subpages4 template thingee. Is this a bug?Pat Palmer 01:23, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Hi. See here. BTW, would it be a problem to have a link under the template-generated checklist to the source? Aleksander Stos 02:25, 24 August 2007 (CDT)
PS. Glad to see you, Pat :-)
I removed it, Pat.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:40, 24 August 2007 (CDT)


Hi Chris. When you get a chance, could you have a look at Ireland (state)/Bibliography with respect to the subpages template? It should probably correctly be listed as Geography, History and Politics. What's the correct syntax to list more than one group? Adding a second template creates two sets of tabs. Thanks, Anton Sweeney 19:12, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

yes, please do. I added the history bit and did not know how to fix the 2 tabs. Richard Jensen 19:27, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

Checklist issue

Chris, the checklist on Federal Reserve System doesn't appear to be adding the proper categories. The metadata page seemed a little out of whack, but I've fixed that and it still isn't working. Any ideas? --Todd Coles 08:49, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

For me it's OK, except that adding {subpages4} to the metadata page results in some mess (and I'd bet it was working). Aleksander Stos 14:14, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Nathanael Greene

Chris, I tried using the metadata template on this article and it put the ToApprove template on the article page rather than the talk page. Also notice that we added the ToApprove template to the talk page on our own. Did I fill it out right[2]? It seems that I can't see the information on the metadata page, but it works anyway?? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:44, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

I really like the way it automatically filled in the ToApprove template on ALL the cluster pages!!!!! Good Job!!!! --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:48, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

subpages9 switching to horizontal format...

Hi Chris

I am trying to convert all the GLBT articles into the new subpages9 format. I can get (I think) most of it done right, except I am struggling to use that nifty {{r|... way of linking related articles together. Stonewall riots is where I have been attempting this today, but cannot get it right. If you look at my previous attempts it ends up becoming

Gay community: Template:Def Gay community [r] [e]

which I cannot understand. I do not know what step/s I am not doing correctly to make it function as it does over at New York City that I was following as the example.

Any advice you can give is v gratefully received. --Ian Johnson 11:29, 2 September 2007 (CDT)

Also, since adding the subpages9 format to Stonewall riots the article no longer appears in CZLive listings. Is it necessary to manually add that in somewhere, and if so, where? --Ian Johnson 11:33, 2 September 2007 (CDT).
Just found answer to that in an earlier response you made above, so am adding CZLive into Stonewall riots for now. --Ian Johnson 11:51, 2 September 2007 (CDT)