User talk:Mary Ash/Archive 2

Mary Ash

Current talk page

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

User page

Hi, Mary. I am not the "talk page archiver", but I can help. I just archived your talk page. Please note that, as Hayford told you, the user page should contain some biographical statement. --Peter Schmitt 23:16, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome

Hope you end up finding the place to your liking! Aleta Curry 23:50, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Please see my response to your post about Betty Crocker on my Talk page

Please look at User talk:Milton Beychok to see my response. Milton Beychok 06:06, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

See my comments on the Talk page of the V-22 Osprey article

I hope you will find it useful whenever you upload more images. Milton Beychok 06:11, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!Mary Ash 06:17, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I can beat that

It's been almost 40 years since I got my degree. But some people here are even older... Ro Thorpe 18:12, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I got mine 46 years ago, but one year late, so it *should* have been 47 years ago. (But maybe I wuz a child prodigy and am *still* younger than Ro!) Seems like only yesteryear, however.... Hayford Peirce 18:33, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I haven't got mine yet, so technically if you went back a million years you still wouldn't have gone back far enough to reach the point when I got my degree. I win ;) --Chris Key 18:40, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I got my B.S. 64 years ago. Would have gotten it 2 years earlier, except I had 2 years in the army during WWII. Milton Beychok 06:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

CZ is teaching me how to deal with Grumpy Old Men, which is good, because I shall find myself married to one in a few years! Aleta Curry 00:51, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

The red link is a projected book, presumably, Aleta? Ro Thorpe 01:27, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Ha, ha - no, a British television series, for those who don't know, but you're sure giving me ideas! Aleta Curry 01:30, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Please look at corrections made to Image:Red-wooden-house-4071.jpg

Mary, in the kindest and gentlest of words, you really must learn that CZ does not allow us to upload photos for Flickr, Commons or elsewhere unless we obtain the real name of the photographer. "gari.baldi" was obviously a pseudonym. See http://www.ipernity.com/user/garibald and also http://www.flickr.com/people/garibaldi/ for his real name and where he lives. The camera metadata in the image file provide the date that the photo was taken. Milton Beychok 06:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Might be a good idea to link Mary to where she may find the Citizendium policy on such things? None of the changes you made to the picture details are accompanied by a reason for having done so (unless there are reasons stated in the edit summaries, but that is simply too much investigation for a new user to be expected to undertake), and I do not see any previous conversations about this subject to show that Mary has been informed of correct policy. I think maybe you should first inform her of the accepted policy so that she has an opportunity to learn? David Finn 09:01, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Ps, your single edit summary on the picture page reads Numerous corrections. Took less than 5 minutes to find real name so I will venture out on a limb and say - if you want anyone to learn what CZ does and does not allow you will have to teach them, and a good place to start might be to link to the relevant policies. I am guessing that most Citizendium authors are capable of learning if they are correctly informed, but as yet I do not see any evidence of that having been done in this case (at least in the obvious places, like this or your talkpage, or the talkpage of the picture in question, or the talkpages of the other pictures Mary has uploaded - which incidentally have no author attributed either). David Finn 09:01, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

The policies on images vary depending on the copyright status of the image. However, when you use the upload wizard to upload an image it tells you all of the relevant policies along the way. For example, when Mary uploaded something from Flickr she would have ended up on page which states at the top "It is imperative that you know the real name of the Flickr user who owns this photo. Most Flickr users have their real name in their profile, and those who don't will usually tell you it if you email them. If you can't find the real name of the author, do not upload the image." --Chris Key 09:27, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I understand your point, but perhaps you can understand mine. There was much discussion about the fact that many editors, including university professors, had failed in the registration process, simply because they failed to write the required 50 words in their submission, and despite clear instructions printed on the page. Those specific instructions had, I believe, to be emphasised in order to limit mistakes, so there is certainly a precedent for unclear (or even clear) instructions going unseen by well meaning contributors. In any event your succinct and informative post should clear up any misunderstanding, and is useful to any other author who may stumble upon the conversation. David Finn 09:41, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I hope not to be intruding, but there is clearly a balance to be found among the desire of some of the more experienced to follow rules that may not be clearly documented, the phrasing of what is intended as good-faith guidance, and what often turns into defensiveness on the parts of both new and old Citizens. The new Help system, I hope, will help enormously, because it is organized around actions, not what may be obscure policy structures. Howard C. Berkowitz 14:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

{unindent}Lighten up fellas. The name I submitted sure looked like a REAL name to me and let it go at that. It is a lovely photo that I used on my wikiHow account and decided to move over here. The photo came from Flickr and I liked it. Do YOU make time to share anything positive here, or are are you all sitting around waiting to "pounce" on the newbies? I did add the hyperlink showing where the image was found so anyone could search it out. Finally, I did some research and indeed this is a dying wiki. I wonder why... Mary Ash 16:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I would point out, Mary, that everyone in this thread, one of whom is himself a newbie who joined two weeks ago, all contribute articles. It's not clear to me what you want them to share that is positive, besides their contributions. There is probably a point of balance between over-pouncing, and the degree of freedom you'd like to have. :-) If you think this is pouncing, you should have seen Richard Jensen leaping on me when I arrived.

This is the second time I've seen you make a comment that this is a dying wiki. Clearly, others don't think so or they wouldn't be exerting significant effort. Frankly, your comment comes across as a sneer, and a not-so-subtle "if we did it Mary's way everything would work." Howard C. Berkowitz 16:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Mary, my comments were a specific reply to a question that another author had. They were in no way an attack against you. And yes, I do many positive things here. When I joined earlier this year the Games Workgroup had no activity. Since then I have paved the way to getting things started, and great progress has been made. These include two articles approved (one of which I was a significant author), and one more is currently nominated for approval (of which I am the sole author other than copyedits). I'm also active on the technical front, and have done a few positive things there including the green approval bar, the share button and the forum revamp. I do not see how contributing to discussions prevents me from doing anything positive, and this was in no way pouncing. The fact is that if we upload images and do not follow copyright and fair use guidelines to the best of our ability then Citizendium will get sued. If that happens we probably won't have the money to fight it, and the project will end. --Chris Key 17:14, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

(in response to your reply on my talk page) Mary, please don't take it so personally. Nobody is doubting your intentions, and nobody is having a go at you for doing it wrong. However we have guidelines on these things, and it is important that you learn to follow them. On the page at Flikr it says the real name of the person who uploaded it. This is the name you should use in future. The comments on this talk page were to inform you of these guidelines so that you can follow them in future.

Also, feel free to reply to any comments I make on the page that I made them (e.g. here in this case). I keep all pages that I edit on my watchlist and will notice your reply. This help to keep the conversation easier to read. --Chris Key 18:14, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Just as a bit of interesting trivia, Garibaldi was a well known Italian military and political figure in the 1800's and he has been dead for over a hundred years now. I don't think color photography was even available in his day. Milton Beychok 18:24, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Of course, Milt. But this does not imply that there is no Garibaldi living now :-) --Peter Schmitt 23:18, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

There's probably a professional rassler out there named Gary Baldie -- big, mean-lookin' guy with a shaved head.... Hayford Peirce 23:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Forums

Thanks for your posts, Mary. Agree or disagree, it's making us all think, that's for sure! Aleta Curry 00:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, your arrival has been a very positive asset for CZ, because there are so few newcomers who stand up and ask questions or argue. I do not think that CZ is only for academically brilliant people; in fact, we need a lot more "normal" people to help with the sheer quantity of writing that is needed. Of course, there is an adjustment process for newbies, because the culture of CZ appears to be unique. As you have understood from the Forums, I am far from pleased with the type of editorial intervention that has occurred, even if I am mostly in agreement with their intentions. Anyway, do try to stay and help us out. Martin Baldwin-Edwards 08:10, 3 August 2010 (UTC)