Hi Richard, I was trying to verify the above authorship. Is this you? --Matt Innis (Talk) 20:31, 7 September 2007 (CDT)
- Yes. I used to edit under that user name. Richard Pettitt 21:43, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
The following shows that individualist societies increase vulnerability to depersonalization episodes. Quite interesting, isn't it? This goes (in my humble opinion) against most people's first impression, don't you think?
I wonder if anthropologists in CZ would like to comment on this.
Sierra-Siegert M, David AS. Depersonalization and individualism: the effect of culture on symptom profiles in panic disorder. J Nerv Ment Dis. 2007 Dec;195(12):989-95. Review.
Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 19:52, 23 January 2008 (CST)
- One can find a very illustrious example of depersonalization (which has been analyzed by clinicians, from what I can tell): Jean-Paul Sartre, the thinker who gave birth to existentialism. Existentialism became a cult-like phenomenon, (hilarious references to Sartre can be found in Boris Vian's novels) mainly because of the fascination caused by his novel, La Nausée, (the nausea, yes), which basically (I read it when I was much more vulnerable to such a cultural influence) describes the dissolving of the self in front of the absurdity of "things".
- The thing, which was awaiting, moved and rushed upon me, it flowed into me, I'm filled with it. -- It's nothing, the Thing is me. ...
- I see my hand, blossoming on the table. It lives -- it's me. It opens, fingers extend. It's on its back. It shows me its fat belly. ...
- I am, I exist, I think therefore I am; I am because I think, but why do I think? I don't want to think, I am because I think that I don't want to be, I think that... because... pooah! (disgust)
- La nausée (my translation)
- Look at that. The great XXth century philosopher refers to Descartes. An illustration of what I was mentioning above ("individualist societies increase vulnerability to depersonalization episodes"). One can't think of many things more individualist than existentialism, am I right? I hope this helps. I think I understand why this disorder is so interesting. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 23:02, 27 January 2008 (CST)
- Thanks for finding that article on individualism. I added a line in the etiology section about the possible effect of individualism on depersonalization. Second, and more importantly, is the connection between depersonalization disorder and philosophy. As you've pointed out, DPD has enormous links with Satre and existentialism (also Heidegger). I'll go dig up my books on this.--Richard Pettitt 22:59, 28 January 2008 (CST)
Depersonalization can be terrifying
I have some experience with depersonalization. I am a bit surprised that the tremendous fright of depersonaliztion, which results from experiencing this feeling, is not mentioned.
--Ruth Ifcher 21:47, 24 January 2008 (CST)
- Good point. I added a line to the lede about the frightening aspect of the experience. Feel free to comment on what I've written, or to include a better description. On a similar note, I'm working on finding a case report written by a person diagnosed with this disorder, which will (hopefully) better convey the phenomenology of DPD. Richard Pettitt 11:00, 25 January 2008 (CST)
- Subjective statements have no business in an encyclopedic article. I removed them. Further, "In fact, their constant focus on what is real or unreal may make them more grounded in reality than the general population.", is a gross generalization and, as such, would need to soundly referenced. Finally, this statement, "Individuals diagnosed with depersonalization disorder demonstrate intact reality testing and, sharing the same objective reality as those not diagnosed as such, are not delusional.", is just absurd. None of us share the same objective reality...we share in a collection of tacit agreements defining a set of generalities that create a consistency of experience...read your Koestler, Luhmann, Berger & Luckman, Wilber, Aurobindo and Kohut.
- Tons of information does not make a good article. Good information makes a good article. --Michael J. Formica 15:02, 25 January 2008 (CST)
- Thanks for your edits Michael, I appreciate any attention this article gets. The diagnostic criteria section is now tighter and much improved. Thank you for the reading suggestions about the second statement, which you wrote it, I'll check them out. I've always been interested in the nature of reality.--Richard Pettitt 10:53, 27 January 2008 (CST)
- Michael, in the lede you wrote "Most individuals exhibiting a symptom profile consistent with depersonalization disorder also demonstrate symptoms describing co-occurring anxiety or depression, or co-morbid anxious or depressive disorder." Barring a discussion on the validity of diagnostic labels, the studies that have found the connection between DPD and other mental disorders have all dealt with patients who have been diagnosed with DPD, and not just "exhibit the symptoms". I'd rather have the sentence read: "Most individuals with depersonalization disorder also exhibit anxiety, depression or both." I think its simpler, and, in light of the following sentences, conveys the same meaning in less words. Thoughts? --Richard Pettitt 15:46, 27 January 2008 (CST)
- You're the primary on this article, Richard. I stand by my usual position, as always...show a reference, make a statement. My wording is not meant to be vague, but rather within the standard of best clinical practice...that doesn't mean it workd for the average reader. --Michael J. Formica 16:51, 27 January 2008 (CST)
- I'm also capable of writing material for which a reader would require, at minimum, an undergraduate degree in psychology. However, I've come to realize people reading this article don't have the same education I have, and I can't expect them to read at the level of a person with a psych Ph.D. Regardless, I changed "most individuals exhibiting a symptom profile consistent with depersonalization disorder" to "most individuals with depersonalization disorder", for the reasons I previously stated.--Richard Pettitt 20:47, 27 January 2008 (CST)
There is a book by Claire Weeks on Agoraphobia that descibes depersonaliztion quite well. She maintains that in the case of Agoraphobia, the anticipation of a panic attack, often accompanied by depersonaliztion, is sufficient to actually bring on such an attack. Her description of depersonalization, as I recall, was quite good. --Ruth Ifcher 20:50, 28 January 2008 (CST)
Michael, on Richard's talk page, you suggest 'demonstrate' rather than 'evidence' (while completely rejecting 'evince'). Since we already have 'demonstrate' further back, perhaps it could do the job twice & we could simply remove 'evidence' - which still strikes me as not a verb in the normal English CZ is supposed to, er, evince. Ro Thorpe 17:28, 27 January 2008 (CST)
Richard, I'm not the specialiste here, but this excerpt you put makes this article very compelling and helps condense through "a beam of empathy" (would I say), the information of the article. Bravo. That's all I wanted to say. :) Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 01:50, 30 January 2008 (CST)
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