Talk:Spelling pronunciation

This is an excerpt from an unpublished treatise I wrote. I have put in the IPA in a couple of examples. I'll leave it to someone else to remove the accents, should they wish. Ro Thorpe 17:13, 26 October 2007 (CDT)

As I said, there is a lot more where this came from, on individual letters and their uses in English, on the sounds and their dfferent spellings, differences between British and American - all done with my accent system, as an alternative to the IPA - though of course I'd be happy to include explanatory IPA symbols. It's a fact that many people, foreign learners and native speakers, find the IPA unhelpful and annoying (just ask User:Hayford Peirce!). Ro Thorpe 13:17, 7 November 2007 (CST)

on library, both r's get pronounced. see [1] Richard Jensen 20:35, 15 November 2007 (CST)

I can't argue with an expert, but I *still* think the first para. should read the way I first had it, maybe with some qualifiers, such as "The F in "often" and the L in "salmon" are *generally* (or some qualifier) considered mispronounced if they are heard; conversely, it is generally considered incorrect *not* to pronounce the R in February and Library." It depends, of course, on one's philosophy: I'm a Second Edition Merriam Websters International Unabridged out-and-out prescriptivist; Ro, evidently, is a Third Edition decriptivist.... Hayford Peirce 21:16, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, and I have rewritten accordingly, including Richard's link. Even I, however, am somewhat shocked to hear that some pronounce the 'l' in 'salmon'. What would Salman Rushdie say? Ro Thorpe 09:30, 19 November 2007 (CST)

I have a lady friend ('Merkin) who, for the 30 years I've known her, says, "I'll have the sal-mun, please. And bring the refills on the wine off-ten." Two birds in one sentence. And, of course, there are other people that I can think of. Maybe the "sal-mun" business is more 'Merkin than Brit...." Hayford Peirce 10:11, 19 November 2007 (CST)

"footballing"

I imagine that it is v. clear to any Brit, and to *some* 'Merkins, what "footballing" refers to in the lede paragraph, but I think it's something that ought to be rewritten to ensure 100% comprehension across the boards. And, trust me on this, I knew many 'Merkans who said "Sal-mun" for the fish long, *long* before anyone had ever heard of the Indian writer.... Hayford Peirce 16:52, 1 March 2008 (CST)

Right. Appropriate (I hope) adjustments will be made. Ro Thorpe 17:48, 1 March 2008 (CST)

I could link 'footballing' to you know what & Milan to the club. What do you think? Ro Thorpe 18:12, 1 March 2008 (CST)

You mean like footballing, hehe? I think it's fine the way you've rearranged things with your examples! Hayford Peirce 18:31, 1 March 2008 (CST)

Good - Ro Thorpe 18:40, 1 March 2008 (CST)

"which" to "that"

Curses! Foiled again! Hayford Peirce 12:53, 12 March 2008 (CDT)

Candidate

Oxford 1974 says candidayt is the normal American pronunciation: if that's still so, it will have to come out. Ro Thorpe 17:10, 25 March 2008 (CDT)

I'm making a section for it & Lebanon. Ro Thorpe 19:57, 25 March 2008 (CDT) Or perhaps that's unnecessary, better to leave them out...?

Yes, they are clutter here. I'll make a link. Ro Thorpe 11:51, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

That's also common in northern England. Peter Jackson 14:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

French

Thanks, Domergue, for the very interesting section. Ironically, I had just swapped Italian & Portuguese round to make it alphabetical, but I don't have the energy to realphabeticise it now. But it is very modest to put French last as many more anglophones (even today) learn French, I think, than the others.

So my pronunciation 'Auzerre' has always been wrong?! Ro Thorpe 20:34, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome Ro. In fact, x is pronounced [z] in deuxième, dixième but [s] in Auxerre, Bruxelles, soixante. I guess it must be quite cumbersome to learn for non native speakers, you're not guilty.--Domergue Sumien 21:45, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, I had all the others right! Presumably I misheard Auxerre once, and it stuck... Ro Thorpe 00:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I remember once having dinner in Auxerres, (burgundy), or nearby, and corrected the sommelier on his pronunciation of the Auxerres wine we had just ordered. I had just read a brief note about the correction pronunciation, but I can't remember now whether I told him it was OX-zerres or Oh-zerres. Whatever it was, he was not pleased. Dumb American! Hayford Peirce 04:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Kosovo

In Russian, according to the rules I remember reading, Kosovo would indeed be pronounced Kosova, but presumably this is not the case with Serbian. Ro Thorpe 00:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Al Jazeera

It seems inappropriate to cite an Arab TV station pronouncing Arabic names the way Arabs pronounce them as an example of English spelling pronunciation. Peter Jackson 10:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'll put in a note. Ro Thorpe 16:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

On further consideration, I think it's necessary to go further, one way or another. The article starts off by defining the term in a certain way: people showing off their literacy by pronouncing things as they're spelt. (Sounds rather patronizing by the by.) That's quite a different thing from pronouncing foreign words the way foreigners do. I think one or other should change. Peter Jackson 16:50, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they are 2 different types, and that should be clarified. The Tehran stuff was a later development, that unexpectedly got larger. You're welcome to rewrite, or I'll have a go tomorrow. Ro Thorpe 19:47, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Galicia

Remember there's another region of this name, in Poland (native name Halicz). Peter Jackson 14:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Los Angeles

Surely that's just a straightforward anglicisation of the Spanish, nothing to do with Greek, ancient or modern. That there is a Greek-derived word 'angel' is coincidence: we don't pronounce it 'Los Angels'. Ro Thorpe 14:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I dunno nuttin' about the Greek or Spanish pronunciation, but I do know that I lived in L.A. for a number of years and both visited it and flew into its airport for many years thereafter. There were/are two ways of pronouncing it: the correct way, by people who actually live there, which is LOSS ANNE-GELL-LUS. And the way that many, many airline pilots seemed to pronounce it, for whatever reason, I had no idea: "Well, ladies and gentlemen, we are now approaching the LOSS ANG-LEE'S airport, so please fasten your seatbelts etc. etc." I don't think I ever heard any one of the ground say it that way, but maybe they did.... Hayford Peirce 18:52, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

In the sky it's a different angle! Ro Thorpe 20:00, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The first pronunciation is the correct anglicized Spanish. The second is a widespread pronunciation as anglicized Greek. That was what I was referring to. Feel free to rephrase to clarify.

In fact some Americans pronounce some perfectly ordinary English plurals as Greek, such as processes. Peter Jackson 14:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I see I didn't read Hayford's remark carefully enough. The second pronuinciation he lists is one I haven't come across, though it still fits what I said. People often say it LOSS-ANNE-GELL-EASE. Peter Jackson 14:39, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, now I understand and have expanded accordingly. Ro Thorpe 22:22, 29 August 2012 (UTC)