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| | ==Milt== |
| | Milt was a great contributor to our project who invested a lot of his own knowledge and time in it; Citizendium is much poorer without him. He was highly trusted and respected, previously serving as the project's Treasurer and on the elected Management and Editorial Councils. However, we were a small part of a long life: Milt completed his degree in 1944, but his graduation was delayed while he saw action in Europe during the Second World War. Decades of experience in both chemical and environmental engineering followed, and he would become a well-published authority on various aspects of these fields, as recognized by his Fellowship of the American Institute of Chemical Engineers. His daughter also tells me he liked to apply his engineering approach to everyday life by collecting recipes and carefully replicating dishes he'd enjoyed. Milt stood firm against pseudoscience and other nonsense, as we at Citizendium can attest, and was a strong proponent of the science and the facts. I am sure I speak for those who knew him here when I say that we will miss him. [[User:John Stephenson|John Stephenson]] ([[User talk:John Stephenson|talk]]) 12:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
| | :RIP Milt. He was a nice gent. [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] ([[User talk:Ro Thorpe|talk]]) 14:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
| | :RIP Milt. [[User:JeromeDelacroix|Jérôme Delacroix]] ([[User talk:JeromeDelacroix|talk]]) 18:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC+1) |
| | :RIP Milt. You embodied the true spirit of Citizendium at its best.[[User:Roger A. Lohmann|Roger A. Lohmann]] ([[User talk:Roger A. Lohmann|talk]]) 04:11, 1 March 2015 (UTC) |
| | :RIP MIlt. As a collaborator and colleague, he will be missed. [[User:Russell D. Jones|Russell D. Jones]] ([[User talk:Russell D. Jones|talk]]) 16:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC) |
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| ==Just created Archive 9==
| | Milt had an abundance of wisdom, passion and knowledge. He was with Citizendium from the early days, and embraced fully the spirit and idealism with which Citizendium was launched. He made an enormous contribution to the project. [[User:Gareth Leng|Gareth Leng]] ([[User talk:Gareth Leng|talk]]) 21:07, 1 March 2015 (UTC) |
| That's why this page is empty at the moment. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 20:30, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks!==
| | I have missed Milt ever since he needed to leave the project, and I will always remember him fondly.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 01:18, 9 March 2015 (UTC) |
| I moved the exlinks to the exlink page and corrected the bad link. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure if I did the exlinks right so please check. I used the * to do the line breaks. Is that what you do here? | |
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| Thanks! [[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 05:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC)Mary Ash
| | == Milt's productivity as chemical engineer == |
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| :Mary, you used the * correctly on the Related Links subpage ... but I had to correct the format of the hyperlinks to online websites. One does '''not''' simply write [url]. Instead, the url is followed by single space and then a title for that website item. For example, '''<nowiki>[http://adage.com/century/icon04.html]</nowiki>''' was corrected to this '''<nowiki>[http://adage.com/century/icon04.html Betty Crocker]</nowiki>''' which then displays simply as [http://adage.com/century/icon04.html Betty Crocker].
| | Let us temper our sadness in the passing of our esteemed colleague with a celebration of his achievements in his field of endeavor. Google Scholar has tabulated 111 articles he published between 1951 and 2005, with links to them and to all the articles that cited them. |
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| :Also, once again, you do not need to sign your name after the four tildes because the tildes sign your name for you and the result is that your name appears twice in your signature (just look at your above signature). Please remember, all you do is sign with four tildes.[[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 06:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC) | | See: [https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=kBHMSC4AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sra MR Beychok] |
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| ::Thanks for letting me know about the tildes. I will refrain from signing. I am used to do doing it that way so it will take a bit of rethinking. :-) I also followed your lead on the exlinks if you check the newest addition. Thanks for your help.
| | [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] ([[User talk:Anthony.Sebastian|talk]]) 22:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
| ::[[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 14:48, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
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| == Photo ==
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| This what I posted on my talk page. Lighten up fellas. The name I submitted sure looked like a REAL name to me and let it go at that. It is a lovely photo that I used on my wikiHow account and decided to move over here. The photo came from Flickr and I liked it. Do YOU make time to share anything positive here, or are are you all sitting around waiting to "pounce" on the newbies? I did add the hyperlink showing where the image was found so anyone could search it out. Finally, I did some research and indeed this is a dying wiki. I wonder why... Mary Ash 16:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks for Serving ==
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| Thanks for serving our country in her time of need. Hubby was in similar circumstances except it was Vietnam. [[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 23:37, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks ==
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| Thank you very much for approving my application, and for the suggestion to expand my bio. I am currently working on this as my first editorial duty :). Thank you again, and I look forward to many happy hours working on this great compendium! [[User:Rachael Cantrell|Rachael Cantrell]] 18:39, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Photo Attribution ==
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| This morning, after feeling so much better, I realized why I was doing this. Any work done for hire and any work paid for by the US Government, or by an employee of the US Government, is considered work for hire or public domain. See: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf Attribution automatically goes to the agency that paid for the work and since we all paid for the federal government photo it's considered public domain. That means the Mack article and the Osprey article were correctly attributed by me. It would be best to change the current attributions to the Harvard Press Office and US Government for those photos as they are now incorrect. It is nice to credit the photographer, if known, but the correct and presumably legal attribution goes to the agencies involved. I fulfilled my ethical and professional responsibility by notifying Citizendium of their error. [[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 15:17, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :If you will look at the photo of Mack that you uploaded, the photo itself has attribution to Harvard Press at the bottom (in very small print). As for the the V-22 Osprey photo you uploaded, the current credit line (which I added as required by CZ) has both the U.S. Navy (which is the government agency) and their photographer's name (who took the photo). So all is well. Thanks for your comment and concern. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 17:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::If you check the file history for the Osprey the attribution is incorrect. Credit goes to the U.S. Government not the author as it is public domain and work for hire photo. See: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Image%3AOsprey.png&diff=100693841&oldid=100693698 [[User:Mary Ash|Mary Ash]] 18:08, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::: Wrong. James Darcy is in fact the author of the work and legally entitled to attribution. If you check the copyright line ([[Template:Osprey.png/credit]]) you will see that both are credited. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 18:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == [[Petroleum naphtha]] ==
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| It's Approved! Thanks for the reminder ;) [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 18:46, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == How to archive talk pages ==
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| Looks terrific, Milt! A lot of tedious work. I've always done it by trial and error and simply copying previous ones. I'll try to find your new instructions the next time I do one! Thanks! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 19:19, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Secure confident people encourage not discourage ==
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| (This comment was moved to Archive 9 of this Talk page)
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| == [[:Image:Russian Blue kitten.jpg]] ==
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| Hi Milt. You requested that [[:Image:Russian Blue kitten.jpg]] be deleted. Flor de Azur is the name of the Company that produced the photos [http://www.flordeazur.com/RussianBlue_Main.html] and holds the copyright. We have plenty of other photos with an 'unknown' author, and as long as the copyright holder is given we always seem to be okay with this. Are you sure it should be deleted? --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 09:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :Chris, before I requested speedy deletion, I spent about 30 minutes surfing that company's website (including their photo gallery) and could not find that specific photo of a kitten ... so it is hard for me to convince myself that the company is truly the copyright owner of that particular photo.
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| :Meanwhile, I emailed Franziska Gabriela Waldmann, presumably the copyright owner of the original photo (Russian_Blue_001.gif) to confirm that she is the copyright owner and that she agrees to our using the photo and crediting her as the copyright owner. If she agrees, then I was going to re-instate that photo for use with the [[Russian Blue]] article. (P.S.: I asked Mary to send the email on the article's talk page and she did not respond. Instead, she uploaded the photo of the kitten.)
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| :As for the photo of the kitten, I suggest that you email Flor de Azur and confirm that they are indeed the copyright owners. When I send such emails (and I have done so with many photos that I uploaded), I insert a copy of the photo in my email. If they confirm that the photo is theirs, then I would have no objections to letting it remain uploaded. If they do not confirm or state that they don't want us to use it, then I would like to see it deleted as I requested.
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| :Chris, I have uploaded about 270 images and the above procedure is that which I have imposed upon myself before I upload pictures from Wikimedia Commons. Whenever a company has not responded to my requests for permission or has responded negatively, I did not upload the image. If you like, I could send you a copy of my "form letter" that I use.
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| :See [[CZ:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians#Images]] and also [[CZ:Media Assets Workgroup/Example permission request letters]]. These are what guided me when I first joined CZ. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 11:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :: No problem, I am happy to go with your judgement on this. I have deleted the photo and left a note on Mary's talk page asking her to obtain permission before re-uploading it. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 18:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Help:Index/Map ==
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| I think it would be best to direct people to [[Help:Index]] rather than [[Help:Index/Map]]. The former has been developed to be easy to use, especially for new starters, and the latter is linked to from the main [[Help:Index]] page. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 20:46, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :Thanks, Chris. To be candid, I believe that [[Help:index/Map]] provides a better overall view of all the help articles than does [[Help:Index]]. I assume you were referring to my welcome message for Nicole Willson. In the future, I will try to remember to point newcomers to both. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 21:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :: As I said in the forum, I also prefer the index map -- there it is much easier to search for the topic needed. But others may think differently. We shall see what becomes more popular. And we certainly can have both. --[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 23:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == [[Explosives]] article ==
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| Milt, would you take a preliminary look at [[explosives]] and think about what it might need to move to Approval? Certainly, there are some [[chemical engineering]] aspects, although specialized ones. Still, this article is about the explosives themselves, and to some extent their detonation systems, not about weapons, commercial blasting, etc.
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| Do note that the Related Articles section is extensive and has many lemma articles.
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| Let me know if I could help find reviewers in any areas. Would it be useful to expand the operations in the well-known process of [[nitroglycerine]] manufacturing, as an example? [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 19:11, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :Yes, I will see if I can help with [[Explosives]] but it may be 1 or 2 days from now, if that is okay. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 20:38, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Thanks. What application did you use to clean up the thermobaric diagram? [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 16:34, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :::When I used the "camera" tool in Gallegos's pdf, I got the same dark background that you did and could not change it to a white background. However, when I used the "copy" tool, I got a white background. Then I moved it into the Microsoft Paint program (comes with Windows) and cleaned it up in that program. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 16:41, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
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| I just made some more, final, minor copy edits to [[explosives]] should you care to update the version for approval again. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 18:00, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
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| : The little chemistry in the article is fine, but I don't really know any of the military jargon to approve the article. So, I am leaning against co-nomination unless you really need me to. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 18:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == User:Deepak Mahaan ==
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| Hi Milt, I deleted the moved account for Deepak from DEEPAK and renamed him instead. This allows for his contributions to show up under Deepak Mahaan and his user name to show up as Deepak Mahaan instead of DEEPAK MAHAAN. I was able to reconstruct his user credentials, but was unsure what workgroups you granted editorships. Could you take a look and add the categories (or let me know which ones they are and I will do it for you. Thanks in advance! [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 20:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Re smog==
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| Milton, per your request, I started a look-see of your excellent draft of [[smog]] at http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Milton_Beychok/Sandbox. I couldn't get far as it's late for me here in San Francisco. I will try to get back to it in a few days. You have done a nice job with the topic, and hard work shows through. [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 03:36, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :Thanks, Anthony. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 03:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Renaming account ==
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| Hi Milt, thanks for fixing [[User:Deepak Mahaan]]. There are a few problems with moving an account instead of renaming. First, the user has to sign in using the DEEPAK MAHAAN user name instead of Deepak Mahaan. This also means that every time he uses the <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, it will sign his name DEEPAK MAHAAN. Also, contributions will show up only under the DEEPAK MAHAAN account. I am not sure, but I think the email feature also will only work when you go to the DEEPAK MAHAAN user page. So if someone were to go to his user page to email him, it won't work (I don't think). [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 02:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| :Thanks for explaining. Not being a Constable and not having sysop rights, once an applicant is confirmed, then I can no longer see what categories the applicant was confirmed for. In this case, I still had my written notes about Deepak, crumpled and in my wastebasket ... so all was okay in this instance.
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| :Also, when I place an applicant on Hold and ask him/her to furnish further information, and he/she complies by emailing back to the Constabulary ... I do not get to see what he/she sends back. In other words, as an Editorial Personnel Administrator, I am not really privy to seeing enough information to make my job easier. It would sure help if, every time I place an applicant on hold, either you or Chris were to email me a copy of whatever further information that applicant supplies ... if he/she replies at all. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 02:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Can you see [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:UserCredentials this page?] If you are not blocked, put the user's name in and it should show you the application.
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| ::All the responses to your emails to editors that show up on the constable wiki that I saw, I forwarded to you. I think it has pnly been two or three. I also saw some that Hayford responded to and asked that they contact you. I will continue to forward them to you.
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| ::You should be the one that gets those emails. Hopefully, we'll fix that. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 03:35, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::: Milt won't be able to see [[Special:UserCredentials]]... even I can't. It's Bureaucrats only. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 04:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::Chris, you're right, I cannot see it. Matt, I only received one response to the constabulary from Hayford and I have not received any from you. In any event, it would help me if you or Chris forward to me any responses that I need to see. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 06:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::: Milt, I have not seen any at all. I looked back into the history and I haven't seen any going back several months. If any do arrive, we shall definitely forward them to you. The problem is simply that nobody is replying. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 15:42, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::: I found one. I've forwarded the copy of the email to your cox.net email address that I forwarded to you previously. Let me know if you don't get it. Other than that, the only ones I've seen were responded to by Hayford. There were very few. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 20:12, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::::Hi, Matt: That's the one I received ... only I thought Hayford sent it to me. Anyhow, that person was confirmed about 2-3 weeks ago or so. Thanks, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 21:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == [[Explosives]] ==
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| [[Explosives]] has been approved! Congratulations on a job well done. --[[User:Chris Key|Chris Key]] 16:17, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
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| == Question about natural gas ==
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| It occurs you'd know the answer to a question to a discussion that came up around the house. At what point is an odorant mixed with crude or refined natural gas? This came up in the context of the recent California fire, where my housemate thought a leaking pipeline would always be smelled. He assumes the odorants are added at the well.
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| I wondered if this was the case, since the raw gas might be reprocessed and the odorant would have to be removed; I assumed it was at the point of the refinery putting commercial natural gas into the distribution system. Perhaps the answer would be useful in an article.
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| Remember, I'm from New Jersey. We might just think butyl mercaptan is a new natural fragrance. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 23:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
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| :Odorants are '''not''' added to raw natural gas. They are added to the gas after it had been extensively processed (see [[Natural gas processing]] for description of that processing). The U.S. Dept. of Transportation and also many state pipeline regulations require odorants to be used in the transmission and distribution pipelines transporting natural gas. In any event, odorants are subject to what is called ''odorant fade''. A leak from an underground gas pipeline would be subject to ''odorant fade'' as it seeped up through the soil.
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| :Odorants are added in very small amounts (in the range of 2-5 ppm by volume). Although fairly easily detected if a leak occurs indoors, an outdoors underground leak of odorized gas might very well be undetectible due to ''odorant fade'' and/or dispersion due to wind and roadway traffic.
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| :You might be enlightened by reading [http://www.sdge.com/documents/safety/CustomerSDGEPSAnnounceodorfade.pdf this]. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:33, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
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| ::P.S.: Natural gas odorizing is discussed in the "Safety" section of our [[Natural gas]] article. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:38, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
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| == Volatility, essential oils, aromatherapy ==
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| All related in various ways, and I'm looking at all as long as I think that CZ is alive. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 23:04, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
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| == Charter ratified by over two-thirds of the vote ! ==
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| Howard, now you are safe in thinking that CZ is still alive. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 03:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
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| == Looking for a better phrase ==
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| What would you consider an appropriate phrase for the technologies and challenges of dissemination of relatively large amounts of aerosol, especially for biological warfare? I've started with "aerosol dispersion", but I don't like the phrase.
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| In BW, and to a lesser extent chemical warfare, one of the first problems is temperature control: don't cook the microorganisms, and some chemical agents, especially the nerve agents, ignite easily. Droplet size and controlling static attraction is another. The space available in munitions and aircraft spray tanks is an issue. Prevailing winds and microclimate need to be considered.
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| [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 20:16, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
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| :Dispersion or dissemination ... but I think dispersion is the best. I cannot think of any others. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 20:39, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
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| == Hey, I'm a chemistry author! ==
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| Say, Milt, guess what! I wrote an article about chemistry! It can be found at [[Alkaline pasta]]. I put it into both the Food Science and Chemistry workshop. I'm sure that it needs some editing, corrections, additions, etc. How can we do this so that eventually you, as a Chemistry Editor, might put it up for approval? I'd sure like to have *one* of my articles Approved someday -- so far the score is: Milt 50, Hayford 0, or thereabouts.... Thanks for taking a look at it! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:22, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :First let me say, welcome back ! I really missed you. That article about alkaline pasta does have an interesting bit of chemistry and I do have some comments to offer. But my wife is waiting for us to go see a movie. I will try to provide my comments later tonight or tomorrow morning. I'll post them on the article's talk page.
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| : By the way, my score is not 50 approved articles ... its only about 25. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC) | |
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| ::That's like Babe Ruth, back in 1920, say, when he hit 59 homers and the rest of the league *combined* hit about 45, saying, "Naw, gee, I really didn't hit all that many...." Enjoy the movie, and I look forward to your comments when you get around to them. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 01:41, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :::Many thanks, Milt! Am drinking my coffee and will study your stuff later, but off the top of my head it all makes perfect sense! I had *thought* about using "sodium carbonate" instead of "baked soda" but didn't quite dare to -- wanted to hear from. You gotta remember, my own knowledge of chemistry is H20 -- and I have keep reminding myself that molecules are made up of atoms. Très confusing from my point of view! Will get back to you. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 15:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::Hi, again. I've incorporated all of your suggestions and made a few changes and additions of my own. Any further comments would be greatly welcomed. Thanks! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == RE: Welcome! ==
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| Thanks for confirming my account. --[[User:Michael D. Suarez|Michael D. Suarez]] 12:41, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Deleted your image ==
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| Hi MIlt, I deleted your image and other file! [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 01:22, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == [[User:Editorial Council Authors|Editorial Council Authors]] ==
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| Milt, yes, I need you and Howard to vote again for Editorial Council Authors. It's fixed now! [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 12:18, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
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| http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Editorial_Council_Authors
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| == Archive box ==
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| Milt, I saw that you added an archive box (to the Roast turkey article). Do you know that the subpages template -- on the main talk page only -- already contains links to the archived pages? --[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 18:16, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
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| <s>:Peter, I was trying to make all of the initial Talk page of [[:Roast turkey (American)]] easily found. What I ended up doing doesn't seem to work. I think that the Talk page of the new [[:Roast turkey/Recipes]] is where all of that initial Talk page should be archived and should have a visible archive box. I don't think it should be hidden away where it is too difficult to find. Can you make that happen, please? [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 19:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)</s>
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| :Peter, I was trying to make the archive of '''all''' of the original talk page clearly visible and easy to find. Since subpages don't have talk pages, I think the archive belongs at the current [[:Talk:Roast turkey]]. Can you make that happen, please? [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 19:56, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :: What I meant to tell you (in case you are not aware of it) is that the (main) talk page of a main space page always automatically has a "hidden" archive box: Go to "Checklist and archives" in the subpages template and click "Show". --[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 22:25, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :::Peter, I am very busy at the moment and cannot answer you at length. My primary concern is that archive box should '''not''' be "hidden". It should be easily and visibly accessible. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 22:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Reconstruction ==
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| Having discovered this in your sandbox, I scanned with interest. I wonder if we might want to contextualize it with lessons learned in many occupations, perhaps inviting people with direct experience, such as the former Mayor of Stuttgart -- perhaps a Topic Informant from him?
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| Just as food for thought, you might want to look at some of the lessons learned, or if I should make them more explicit, both in [[Operation RANKIN]], and the needed articles on the occupations of Germany and Japan. I'm not happy with the structure of the Iraq War material, although there's a good deal under [[Iraq War, insurgency]]. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 21:17, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :I am no historian and I have no intention changing any of the content of the article. I am just going to "wikify" the article by revising Jenson's tedious and lengthy method of referencing (having both a lengthy Bibliography section in the main article as well as an even lengthier list in the Biblio subpage ... and then a lengthy, but cryptic list of "notes" (i.e. references) , that point to the books in the main article Bibliography section for the complete citation. I will replace that 2-step system of referencing with our usual 1-step procedure. I also plan to try and upload the Wikipedia graphics (if I can) for which Jensen just left place holders. Other than that, I won't even attempt to make any content edits.
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| :You might note that I just finished similar wikifying of [[Black history]] and [[Slavery, U.S.]]. I just got tired of seeing these articles, originally uploaded from Wikipedia, siting there and never being put into CZ format ... so I did just that.
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| :Its easier for me to do those things in my sandbox and then later transfer the finished product to the existing main article. That way, the main article History page won't fill up with all of my multitude of trial-and-error edits while I work out what I want to do. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 21:38, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Fair enough. The dejensening and CZ-fying (cough) are quite needed. When it moves to mainspace, I'll try to improve content. I do have a Civil War historian in the house (not me). [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 21:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Going cold turkey ==
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| Hi, Milt, could you take a look at: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Roast_turkey#What_do_we_do_now_with_the_turkey_recipes.3F__Asking_for_opinions_and_thoughts.... and offer your considered opinion when you have a moment? Many thanks! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :I think that a constable should completely delete the article for the reasons given in the first two sections of [[:CZ:Article Deletion Policy]] about worthless, inaccurate articles, namely these quotes from that CZ article:
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| :*it would be obvious and uncontroversial to virtually all constables that it is not an encyclopedia article: see [[CZ:What Citizendium articles are not|what Citizendium articles are not]]
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| :*the article is of such low quality (in terms of inaccuracy, bias, poor writing, or whatever) that it would be more efficient to start over than to try to clean up the current one (this also can be achieved by blanking, if one does in fact wish to start over)
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| :*the article is not [[CZ:Maintainability|maintainable]]
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| :Perhaps one of the Constable would delete the article "acting on their own recognizance". As a former constable, you know them ... why not ask them to do so? [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 22:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Milt, I've taken the liberty of cutting your comments and pasting them into the Talk page of the [[Roast turkey]] article. Many thanks for your thoughts! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:25, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Image ==
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| Milton, [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Image:Russian_Blue_001.gif&action=history as I recall] you are the expert on image attribution - if you have time would you mind taking a look at [[Image talk:Protest in front of Myanmar Embassy in London.jpg|this discussion]] to see if you can shed any light? Cheers. [[User:David Finn|David Finn]] 07:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :David, I went there and provided all the information that I could recall. It is now 1:00 AM in the morning and I am off to bed. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 08:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::I couldn't ask for more, thanks for your opinion and have a good night. [[User:David Finn|David Finn]] 08:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thank you ==
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| I wished to thank you for your welcome message delivered to me. [[User:Richard Lai|Richard Lai]] 20:53, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Would like to hear your thoughts on Atoms and Molecules article ==
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| Milt, I looked at the [[Atoms and Molecules]] article. I've got reservations as to whether that article needs expansion. I've opened a section on its [[Talk:Atoms and Molecules|Talk page]] to talk about it and would like to hear your thoughts. [[User:Matt Arenas Mercado|Matt Arenas Mercado]] 02:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :Thanks for your thoughtful comments on the article. I have responded there on that Talk page. Regards, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 06:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Milt, I left my thoughts on the article in the talk page. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 13:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Thanks for all the help. However, I have to agree with David Volk's sentiment that the article isn't necessary. Thinking about it more, even if it was made into a "pointer article" as I suggested, the results from the "Search" box gives, practically, the same results. I hope you won't mind. [[User:Matt Arenas Mercado|Matt Arenas Mercado]] 14:08, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :::Milt, I also requested for the speedy deletion of the article's [[Atoms and Molecules/Definition|Definition]] and [[Atoms and Molecules/Bibliography|Bibliography]] pages. I'm not sure how this works but I believe it needs editor approval so I just wanted to let you know if any constable comes asking. [[User:Matt Arenas Mercado|Matt Arenas Mercado]] 16:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::Thanks, Matt. I have just talked to our Constable, Matt Innis , about removing those two subpages as well. Yes, you should always ask an editor to request speedy deletions for you ... but don't worry about it. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 17:20, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Images ==
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| If we are to use an image under the fair-use licence, what are the requirements? For example, if it is a picture of a person that is copyrighted, but that person is still alive - are we justified in claiming fair-use if it is possible to find that person and take a picture of them?
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| Or, to pick a random example, if we can only find a fair-use photo for Stonehenge, but we know Stonehenge is there and we could go take a photo, are we justified in using the fair-use image when it is only personal circumstances preventing us getting a PD photo?
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| Another question - if someone makes an image, a photo or video, and we make a copy of that. Does the copyright then become ours? Example - someone takes a photograph of a single frame of a copyrighted video. The single frame is copyright of the original producer, but does the photograph of the single frame then become copyright of the photographer, or rest with the original producer of the frame?
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| And a last question - I read somewhere on Citizendium (but cannot find it again) that we were not to use the fair-use rationale on Citizendium until such time as it's implications were clarified by a legal expert. Do you know if that happened, are we allowed to use fair-use now, or are we still wary of non-free images. And as a side question to that, we are a free encyclopedia - how much use of non-free images is desired?
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| Sorry if that is a lot of questions, or out of your field of interest. I can post this elsewhere if need be. Thanks for your time in any respect, and good work on the templates page. [[User:David Finn|David Finn]] 07:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
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| :All good questions for a lawyer, which I am not. I really don't know the answer to any of them and the forum is the best place to ask about them. But don't hold your breath waiting for answers. CZ really must find on of our lawyer members and get him/her interested in becoming our image guru. I have uploaded a few fair use images myself and came up with some boiler plate statements that I provided in the "Notes" sections of the image file summaries. When I get a chance, I will locate one of them and refer you to it. But it may be later today. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 17:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
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| == Thanks for the great welcome! ==
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| It was great to see your note on my talk page, and even better to see you still deeply involved in encylopedia writing. I am planning to assign my bioseparations class to write a suite of short articles on bioseparation topics, as I did in 2006-2008 over on Wikipedia. There is more room to contribute such things here than over there, and just as important, the experience here should be more positive for the students. [[User:Jean B. Hunter|Jean B. Hunter]] 22:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
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| :Hi, Jean: Just be sure to inform your students that we frown on simply importing Wikipedia (WP) articles and then not modifying them to fit into our style for articles using our default article subpages .... and even more so without checking the WP article thoroughly for correctness (including all of the references). Your students should also understand:
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| :*Many of the templates used at WP do not work on Citizendium (CZ)
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| :*Transferring graphics (photos, diagrams, etc.) in WP articles requires that the graphics first be transferred to the student's computer and then uploaded into CZ using our [[:CZ:Upload|Upload Wizard]]. Also, CZ requires that the uploader ascertain and provide the real name (no pseudonyms) of the copyright owner (either an individual's name or an organization's name) for any graphics obtained at Wikimedia Commons or Flickr that are not in the Public Domain. The uploader must also provide the specific url of the website page where the graphic was found or the name of the book from which it was obtained. Of course, if the uploader created the graphic himself or herself, then there is no problem.
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| :If you need any help learning our article styles, please contact me and I will try to be helpful. Regards, [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 00:21, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
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| ::By Public Domain, I am referring to works of any agency or entity of the U.S. Government ... or graphics which are older than 70 years and therefore the copyrights have expired. However, if some individual or organization created an image and published it as in the Public Domain, then the real name of that person is still needed. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 04:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
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| :::Hi, Milton: Thanks for your cautions and for your offer to help in climbing the learning curve here. We aren't planning just to import and reformat WP articles; we intend to select article topics we consider important and then to write original articles to cover them.
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| :::Understanding that some topics require more description than others, in your opinion is there any approximate "optimal length" for an article on a chemical process?
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| :::Would it benefit Citizendium if my students created some lemma topics or stubs in addition to their full size articles? In your opinion would creation of a lemma article and/or stub article be a good way for students to "get their feet wet" here?
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| :::I have another question about the "related topics" page. I'm not sure what "Subtopics" means. For example, in your article on flash evaporation, it makes sense for the parent topic to be engineering, or better yet chemical engineering as the parent topic and engineering as a "grandparent" topic. But chemical engineering is listed as a subtopic, and topics which seem to me to be subtopics of flash evaporation are listed as related topics.
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| :::Thanks in advance for your advice. [[User:Jean B. Hunter|Jean B. Hunter]] 23:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
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| (unindent) Jean, here are my responses:
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| * There is no "optimal article length". In my opinion, just keep in mind that we are writing encyclopedia articles and not textbooks. Also keep in mind, that the audience may range from high school students to experienced graduate, working engineers and biologists. That's a pretty difficult balance ... but that's the way it is.
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| * Although I have created some lemma article, I personally prefer stubs to lemmas ... and, yes, I think that stubs are a good way for your students to wet their feet.
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| * Each of our article "clusters" include the main article, a "Definition" subpage, a "Related Articles" subpage (which replaces the "See also" section in WP articles), a "Bibliography" subpage for books and journal articles primarily, and an "External Links" subpage for hyperlinks to online sources primarily. Those are the "default" subpages. There are other subpages as well but they can wait until you've been here a while. Each cluster also has a "Metadata template" which is '''very''' important. Among other points, the Metadata page is where the author selects which workgroup the article falls under. Cat1, Cat2 and Cat3 on the Metadata template are for the author to select up to 3 workgroups (i.e., categories). Sub1, Sub2, and Sub3 are for the author to select up to 3 subgroups (i.e., Sub-categories).
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| *With that in mind, I almost always use the workgroups I selected in the Metadata template as the "Parent topics", the subgroups selected in the Metadata and perhaps others sometimes as the "Subtopics", and all other relevant articles as the "Other related topics". However, many of our authors do it somewhat differently. So, in the end, it is up to the first author. As with all articles, anyone can come along later on and revise what the first author has done. Also, the designated Editors like myself should be providing guidance over the Metadata templates and subpages as well. (I am an Editor in the Engineering workgroup as well as the Chemistry workgroup.) So for, example that makes me an Editor in the Chemical Engineering subgroup as well ... since subgroups do not have designated Editors. (All of this may change in the future now that we have just ratified our new Charter).
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| You will note in many of the articles which I created that I have very often selected both Engineering and Chemistry, or Engineering and Physics, or all three as the workgroups on the Metadata template ... and subsequently often as the parent topics for the "Related Articles" subpage.
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| The Chemical Engineering subgroup, when selected in the Metadata, uses a capital C and a capital E, as differentiated from the [[Chemical engineering]] article and so one must be sure to use those capitals when selecting the subgroups. The Metadata template then subsequently automatically lists the selected categories and subcategories on the bottom of the main article and also automatically lists the article in each of the selected workgroups and subgroups.
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| On any of our existing articles, you will note green subpages banner at the top of the article. At the far right of the first line in the banner is a small yellow circle with an M in it. That is a link that takes you directly to the Metadata template of any existing article.
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| One final thing and this is a known bug. Very often, even when the Metadata template has been correctly created and it has listed the selected categories correctly at the bottom of an article, the article does not show up as being listed in the selected workgroups. In that case, one must go the main article edit page and make what we call a "null" edit like simply adding a space or two at the end of a paragraph ... and that results in the article showing up correctly in the article lists of the selected workgroups.
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| I know this is quite a bit to absorb ... if you run into trouble let me know and I will help out. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 02:09, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
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| == Need help with definition of allotropy ==
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| Hey, Milt.
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| Would you happen to know any good(authoritative) sources for the definition of [[allotropes|allotropy]]? I normally consult the IUPAC Gold Book for these things but I don't get their definition of it ([http://goldbook.iupac.org/A00243.html Different structural modifications of an element.]; if you can explain it to me, I'd quite appreciate it). Both the allotrope articles on CZ ([http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Allotrope link]) and Wikipedia ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotrope#Differences_in_properties_of_an_element.27s_allotropes link]) use the term, "form," which I can't trace a definition of. [[User:Matt Arenas Mercado|Matt Arenas Mercado]] 13:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
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| :Hi, Matt: Go to the user page of David E. Volk and get his CZ email (scroll down left hand navigation panel to find the link to it). Then email him with your question and I am sure he can explain it better to you than I can.
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| :The best I can do is: '''The existence, especially in the solid state, of two or more crystalline or molecular structural forms of an element.''' The word "form" means shape or structural shape or pattern. Graphite and diamond are allotropes of carbon. [[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 16:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Thanks. I'll contact David Volk about it. [[User:Matt Arenas Mercado|Matt Arenas Mercado]] 11:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
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| == Acid rain ==
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| Sorry, Milt, I had not had time to read the article. But I will. --[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 22:51, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
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| == Nominated [[Acid rain]] for approval ==
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| Milton, nomination banner up. Hope I did it correctly. [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 03:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
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| : Anthony, I made some corrections (and Milt updated the version). Please check if you agree! --[[User:Peter Schmitt|Peter Schmitt]] 16:53, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
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| == Links to acid rain in other countries ==
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| Milton, using [http://www.bing.com Bing], I found these links useful re issue of acid rain in other countries:
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| [http://earthtrends.wri.org/features/view_feature.php?fid=27&theme=3 Acid Rain: Downpour in Asia]. A meaty article.
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| [http://www.copperwiki.org/index.php/Acid_rain Acid rain]. Re acid rain in China, see ‘Did you know?’ section.
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| [http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Acid_Rain/Older/Europe.html Acid rain in Europe]. No refs.
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| [http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Acid_Rain/Older/Transboundary_Pollution.html Transboundary pollution].
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| [http://www.chinagate.cn/english/1902.htm Acid Rain in China]. Fairly meaty.
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| [http://discovermagazine.com/2009/mar/13-whatever-happened-to-acid-rain Whatever Happened To... Acid Rain?]. Interesting tidbit on acid rain in Russia.
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| [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 16:32, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
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Where Milt lives it is approximately: 10:04