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 Definition (Blue Danube waltz) Famous Viennese Waltz composed by Johann Strauss (son). [d] [e]
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 Talk Archive none  English language variant British English

The Blue Danube Waltz, which should be I think

I think this will need a cluster move, because if memory serves (which is by no means certain) the consensus was to put clusters under the best known English name unless there was exceptional reason not to. In addition, isn't this properly called An der schönen blauen Donau or however one says The Beautiful Blue Danube in German, or am I way off base. We also need to decide where the composer's article goes, I vote Johann Strauss II; he's not usually called Sohn in English. And am I having a brain cramp, but didn't we also call this fellow Johann Sebastian Strauss, or did I completely make that up? Aleta Curry 23:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Johann Baptist' Strauss. But that is true for the father, too. I understood that titles use the most common form of the name. (And I think that it is enough to give the full name and variations in the lead.) Concerning "II" "(son)", "jr." or "the younger" I do not know what is most usual (I also saw "son"). --Peter Schmitt 00:13, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right, Peter, but Donauwalzer wouldn't be the most common form in English; it would be Blue Danube Waltz. Aleta Curry 00:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
Yes, you are right. It probably should be "An der schönen blauen Donau" instead. That was the title under which it was published. I know that there is opposition against using titles as "Donauwalzer", but CZ:Translation is not really clear about it, and it shows that there has not been much discussion about it yet. I think this should be discussed on a broad basis. I know the argument that "CZ is an English project" and agree, of course. I would fully agree to use English titles whereever possible if it were a printed encyclopedia. But in an online wiki with the option of redirects this is not a convincing argument anymore:
The page is written in English and gives an explanation of a foreign title. Choosing the original title (if it exists) is the only consequent and unambiguous method -- translations often have variations (For instance, is it "Blue Danube" (as in WP), "Blue Danube waltz", or "The Blue Danube Waltz"?)(Yes, languages whose script has to be transcribed are a problem.) By the way, the translation of the long title is "At/by? the beautiful blue Danube". --Peter Schmitt 00:35, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
For me it's The Blue Danube, by Johann Strauss the Younger. Ro Thorpe 00:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Hoo, boy! As dog is my witness, I do not want to get involved in another article naming fight discussion any time soon. Peter, there are very many threads containing many heated arguments about this, as you've no doubt realised. My position is that I would support use of article titles in a foreign language where the foreign word/title/expression is commonly used in English: gesundheit!, que sera sera, bwana--I'm sure you can come up with better examples, but those are the first that sprung to mind--I would not support it in this case, where I have never heard 'Donauwalzer' ever used in an English-language conversation--and I have lived in England, the U.S., Uganda and Australia. I do not doubt you at all that donauwalzer is the common title in Austria, so I would suggest make donauwalzer a redirect. We have to operate on the premise that the overwhelming majority of people coming to en.citizendium would search under 'Blue Danube', so I do not see why they should be redirected to a name in another language in this case. Make sense?
Aleta Curry 23:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)