Talk:Tea Party movement/Archive 3

Images

(CC) Photo: Sage Ross
Tea party protest in Hartford CT.

(CC) Photo: Sage Ross
Tea party protest in Hartford CT.

Howard, are either of these useful for you? Chris Day 16:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Chris, good question. Certainly, they show real protests, but I would like other opinions if featuring such images gets away from neutrality. This isn't to say that the Tea Party Movement isn't largely a protest group, but should we be presenting such images for every protest group? I honestly don't know.

There aren't policy papers or headquarters to show. --Howard C. Berkowitz 03:00, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I see what you mean. I guess I think of it as a protest movement and certainly it is closely related to their origins. I didn't really think of that as a slur, but if you think that lacks neutrality then better safe than sorry. Chris Day 03:22, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm trying to err on the side of neutrality, not being a Tea Party supporter -- not that I'm terribly happy with either of the U.S. political parties. Your pictures are quite even-handed; I've seen some from the news media that zero in on the generally accepted lunatic fringe.

As far as "protest movement" — the reality is that they are trying to figure out what they are. Protest alone just can go so far, without programs. There were massive protests in the Civil Rights Movement, but they were usually associated with actionable goals. Of course, this is a very young movement, and, while some is absolutely spontaneous and genuine, there are also political and commercial interests involved.Howard C. Berkowitz 03:53, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Tea Party - duplicate page

I have moved the duplicate page "Tea Party" to Talk:Tea Party Movement/Archive 1 Archive 1 an its talk page to Talk:Tea Party Movement/Archive 2 Archive 2. Some material may be useful for merging with this page.

By the way: Shouldn't this page be moved to Tea Party movement?

--Peter Schmitt 16:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

As a Politics Editor, who happened to write much of this article, I had no prior knowledge that the "Tea Party" page was to be moved, and was discussing merger with its principal author -- but had in no way determined that the merge was to be made. I have asked for reversion of the changes while the Author-Editor discussion continues.

No, I do not believe it should be lower-case movement, any more than there should be an entry for U.S. Republican party. One of the matters in active discussion is whether the Tea Party Movement meets the criteria for political party. If it did, it clearly would be a proper name. My general experience in both political science literature and U.S. news media is that upper-case M is more widely used. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:55, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Friedman column on Tea Party and "Tea Kettle"

Those of you working on this article (or articles; life imitates punditry?) might be interested in Thomas Friedman's column in a recent NY Times on what he sees as the two Tea Party movements: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/29/opinion/29friedman.html Bruce M. Tindall 18:48, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

I think I read that article but will follow the link to make sure. My initial response is "only two?"

Ideologically, there's a mixture of more formal fiscal conservatives, libertarians, and social conservatives. From my experience, libertarians and social conservatives do not mix well. There's also a significant component of frustrated and angry people, who may not easily fall into any ideology.

Structurally, there's a lack of clarity if it's an interest group or a political party, and, for that matter, if it can reasonably be considered nonpartisan rather than a schism in the U.S. Republican Party. I've tried to discuss a broader perspective in restructuring of the U.S. political right, although I haven't touched that in a while. Your comments there would be welcome. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:55, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Starting discussion for merge

Formation

"Formation" is the heading that was in this article, while "Origins" seems to be the equivalent in Tea Party. I think we have to agree on what defined the start.

In this article, I used the dates of the first major physical protests. The Tea Party article, however, seems to use dates of organization of groups, and to some extent different, more local groups than the national sponsors. In either case, by the very distributed nature of Tea Party groups, there is no one single event. There appear to be conflicting national and local claims. How should this be resolved? As a start, I think we have to know the exact date, not just 2009, in which the organizations in the Tea Party article were first visible.

My personal leaning, after 40+ years in Washington, is not to give organizations, especially after the advent of the Web, much credibility for existence merely from making announcements. I wait for them to do something, or at least get significant endorsements. Like it or not, there's a difference between Liz Cheney or John Podesta announcing it, and someone previously at the grassroots announcing it.

Incidentally, it's Rick Santelli (two L's). His statement on the floor of the Chicago Stock Exchange has been called a "rant", and he doesn't regard himself as a Tea Party leader or necessarily aligned with it.

--Howard C. Berkowitz 03:47, 2 October 2010 (UTC)