Talk:Welcome to Citizendium: Difference between revisions

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Created [[/Archive 1/]], 10:09, 30 May 2009 (UTC) — [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]]
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| style="text-align: center;" | '''<big>[[Archives]]</big>'''
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| style="padding: 0.25em;"|'''Archive 1, 5-30-09:''' [[User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive1]] by [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]]
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| style="padding: 0.25em;"|'''Archive 2, 8-14-13:''' [[User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive2]] by [[User:Pat_Palmer|Pat Palmer]]
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| style="padding: 0.25em;"|'''Archive 3, 3-3-21:''' [[User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive3]] by [[User:Pat_Palmer|Pat Palmer]]
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| style="padding: 0.25em;"|'''Archive 4, date?''' [[User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive4]]
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| style="padding: 0.25em;"|'''Archive 5, date?''' [[User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive5]]
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-->
|}


==Why I revised the front page intro a few days ago==
== Links we may need after June 2020 ==
I revised the front page intro substantially a few days so thought I should explain my rationale.  The former verbiage was seeming sort of like a business that had been around a while yet still rather oddly had its "Grand Opening!" sign up front.  That sort of sign works to draw in new customers for a while, but there is another group who will still only drive by and not come in. They want to know "we're still here and we're a growing business who is here to stay, so it's a really good to come in now."  It's flowing with a seemingly natural cycle, I suppose.  At any rate, that was what I tried to do. [[User:Stephen Ewen|Stephen Ewen]] 06:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
* [[:Category:Articles to Approve|articles nominated for approval]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]])


== Slight redesign ==
== Site Design ==


I don't like the current layout of the main page; it's too cluttered at the top and it looks silly having the logo twice.<br />
Not really sure if this is the best place to address this. Have you considered changing the site design though? It's hard to see material from an encyclopedic standpoint with the site zoomed in like it is, first of all. Kind of dizzying I think to try reading when everything is zoomed in. The gray background looks pretty bad also. --[[User:Joshua Zambrano|Joshua Zambrano]] 18:54, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I'd like to change it to something like [[User:Caesar_Schinas/Welcome_to_Citizendium|this]] or [[User:Caesar_Schinas/Welcome_to_Citizendium_2|this]] (sorry about the long header, if you have a low-resolution screen) - what does anyone think of the idea?<br />
:Zoomed in? You mean everything is in close-up? You can change that, and the grey background too. I'll see if I can remember how... [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 19:13, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 11:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
:You can click on 'my preferences' at the top of the page and experiment. [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 19:16, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
::The default skin is Pinkwich5, which has a greyish background and enlarged font. The skin I prefer using is Monobook. I'm not a fan of Pinkwich5. The previous arguments in the forum of being seen to be different from everyone else and unique has not worked in attracting new users. Let's call a spade a spade - Pinkwich5 is garish and detracts from the overall aesthetic of the website. [[User:Meg Ireland|Meg Ireland]] 03:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)


:I decided to [[CZ:Be Bold|be bold]]. If people don't like this, we can revert. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 15:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of site design, what would it take to make Citizendium resize on mobile devices? [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 22:39, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
:See [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Welcome_to_Citizendium&oldid=100499115 here] for the old version. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 15:18, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


::I prefer the new version over the old one and think we should go ahead with the redesign - for instance, I like the drop image very much but find it out of place here: adding water to the ocean probably isn't too appropriate an image for an attempt to ''structure'' anything, and be it knowledge. --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 00:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
:Richard, I very much agree that making the site mobile friendly is important.  I suspect that our best bet of doing that is for our technical gurus to manage to upgrade the Mediawiki software.  This is a daunting challenge, however, since at this point, each layer of software from the OS to the web server to the database to the Mediawiki software is now many versions out of date, beside which there are many customizations which have been made, in the past, specifically for Citizendium.  They are working on it, and may indeed accomplish it, but such an upgrade will inevitably include some kind of rough waters. So--as of late August 2020, I would say there is hope it will get done, but I cannot say what the timeframe will be, since everyone is an unpaid volunteer and the matters are so tricky.  Do know, however, that the software upgrades are in the works which should get Citizendium to be more mobile friendly.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 10:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)


:::Yes, an improvement, and yes, exit the drop. [[User:Ro Thorpe|Ro Thorpe]] 00:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
== Removing link to article about Citizendium until/unless it can get updated ==
This was in the bullet list in the lower right:
* See our [[Citizendium|article on ourselves]].
It needs to be revamped and updated.  New contributors could be seriously confused by reading it.  So, I'm now about to remove it from the landing page pending its revision.  Then, we can hopefully return it.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 23:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


::::I agree, the drop should go. A nice pic, but not the message we want to send. How about a pic of a *VAST* reading room, such as the LOC or whatever it is in London, or the Bodelian, or whatnot, a *enormous* repository of knowledge? Old-fashioned, sure, and not hip, but appropriate.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 02:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
== Added "We strive for objectivity" ==
Since The Citizendium no longer enforces what formerly was called Neutrality, I've added "[[CZ:Objectivity_Guidance|We strive for objectivity]].", a short personal essay of my own, to the lower right on the landing page. I hope it won't displease you.[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 22:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


:::::When I worked at LOC, there was a very popular cartoon from the ''New Yorker'', with a crowd, pointing Superman-style to a lone figure in the Main Reading Room, shouting "Look! It's a Congressman!"
== Stashing removed bullet item here (from lower left) ==
Archiving this here after removing it from main page because the information appears in upper right in a different format
* We have [[:Category:CZ Live|{{PAGESINCAT:CZ Live}}]] articles at different stages of [[CZ:Group Editing|development]], of which [[:Category:Citable versions of articles|{{PAGESINCAT:Citable versions of articles}}]] have expert-[[CZ:Approval Announcements|approved]] [[CZ:Citable Version|citable versions]]. 
<!--* Our  [[:Category:Approved Articles|{{PAGESINCAT:Approved Articles}} expert-approved articles]] are '''reliable''' and of '''world-class quality''', rivaling the best printed encyclopedias.-->


::::::Hehe. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 04:17, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
== Stashing the Monthly Donation Day link here (no longer helpful) ==
Archiving this link here after removing it from the landing page because it is so old and not being maintained, nor likely to be.
* [[CZ:Monthly Donation Day|Monthly Donation Day]]&nbsp;&nbsp;'''|'''


:::::You don't know what vast means, however, until you get accidentally locked in the stacks and the lights are turned out. Trust me. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 02:45, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
== Physics Forums link on landing page ==
I have added a link to [http://www.physicsforums.com/ Physics Forums] on the landing page (at the bottom of the bullet list).  This is due to a deal with the Physics Forum owner, Greg Bernhardt.  He doesn't normally allow his site to be used for any kind of solicitation, but in this case, if we link to him, I'll be allowed to solicit for physics experts over there to check out writing in Citizendium.  This mutual linking is a new thing; if you know other social/technical forums where we might be able to work out a similar understanding, let's try it![[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 23:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
:Worth giving a go! [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 22:13, 30 August 2020 (UTC)


::::::You should read the wonderful 1951-ish novel by [[Michael Innes]] called either [[Operation Pax]] or [[The Paper Thunderbolt]], where the climatic scene is set in the 30-story-deep underground stacks of the Bodelian.... (imaginary, he says, in a note) [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 04:15, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
== Why Citizendium? needs updating; anybody? ==
* See also ''[[CZ:Why Citizendium?|Why Citizendium?]]''
** I've archived the above link from the landing page until someone updates it.  It's still got all the stuff about Editors which is not being done in practice now (and may never return). Anyone want to revise it to fit current times?  (Being nice, of course; we are not in competition with Wikipedia).[[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 23:49, 29 August 2020 (UTC)


:I like the drop, but perhaps as you say it's not appropriate. It's not very noticeable down at the bottom of the page, anyway. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
==old server==


::I've added code to make the quotation change every month, and added a few more quotations... Not sure if we want them to start again after a year, but it's a start.
old server temporarily available at http://208.100.31.41/  [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] ([[User talk:George Swan|talk]]) 12:54, 28 March 2022 (CDT)
::Best not to get rid of the drop until images are working again. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 07:31, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
: As stated in the [[Forum_Talk:Technical_Issues|Forum]], the OLD server is at https://czold.org/ until May 20 of this year.  Note that the old server has a pink SiteNotice on every page.  The IP address you had is for the new server, and that is a bad way to go it. Go in to the new server at https://citizendium.org/. Please only post on this page if it is about ''this'' page, or something linked to it. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 16:30, 28 March 2022 (CDT)


== Server restarted ==


There was some bad RAM in one of our main servers, and it was just replaced.  Glad I was around when the server went down, so I could get the Steadfast people on the case.  But now (I observe) the images are not showing up.  Well...we'll see what's going on there, I don't know when the images will be showing up, but by tomorrow AM I hope. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 06:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
==archiving this link ==
In case we want it again someday: [[CZ:More_information_for_Physics_Forums_Members]], I'll leave this link here.  However, PF did not do its part in publicizing Citizendium, so I'm removing their link from the main page. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 07:37, 25 April 2022 (CDT)


:I'd just been going to ask if something was wrong with all the images or if it was just me...
== Panel ==
:When is "tomorrow AM"? How about a GMT time?
:[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


::I don't live on GMT, I live on Eastern Standard.  That is 4 or 5 hours behind GMT, depending on time of year...you can do the math, I trust. :-) --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 01:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
headed "Some our finest" should mention Ready category. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 04:38, 31 May 2022 (CDT)
 
:::Yes, I can understand that. It's hard for us non-US-people to get our heads around the fact that you have so many different timezones...
:::Perhaps we should make it a rule that everyone puts their timezone on their userpage? I know ''some'' Citizens already do.
:::[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
No idea about the time zones, but I don't see the images either. [[User:Aleksander Stos|Aleksander Stos]] 07:12, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 
== Splitting out AOTW and NDOTW ==
 
I've moved the Article of the Week and the New Draft of the Week to [[CZ:Article of the Week/current]] and [[CZ:New Draft of the Week/current]], respectiveyl, and transcluded them onto this page so that this page doesn't have to be edited every time those are updated. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 07:44, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 
== Pictures ==
 
I don't see the pictures on the main page, not with FireFox, Google Chrome nor IE8--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 08:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
PS: All picture stuff (including LaTex) is screwed up right now.--[[User:Paul Wormer|Paul Wormer]] 08:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:Larry is aware of this - see above - but I don't know if anything is being done about it. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 09:03, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:Pictures are appearing for me, as of 13:37 GMT. [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 12:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::They actually started working again some time before 12:30 GMT yesterday. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 13:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== Update ==
 
Well, RAM on the server that was chronically crashing was replaced last night (almost 24 hours ago now).  It is possible that bad RAM was the cause of the chronic crashing.  If so, we shouldn't see crashes nearly as regularly.  Fingers crossed! --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 01:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== Quotations ==
 
I've altered the code slightly so that a pseudo-random quotation is displayed on every page load, though in practice it won't be quite ''every'' time due to caching.<br />
There are currently 12 quotations - should we have more?<br />
If anyone adds more, they'll have to change the randomisation code slightly; it needs to know how many quotes there are.<br />
[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 16:51, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 
: Caesar, exactly how do I change the code if I add a quotation?
: The best quotations, IMHO, the ones that encourage people to write/edit.
: [[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 02:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== Logo ==
 
Who else think that [http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4907/czproposed.png this] looks much better than [http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6696/czcurrent.png this]? [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 08:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:I do.  The background needs to be transparent, I think.  I use the default skin, and there's an ugly white box around the logo. [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 09:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::Unfortunately, this can only be changed by someone who can change the files on the server; it's not a setting which can be changed on the wiki. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 10:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::If, by the "default skin", you mean MonoBook... well, it's not the default skin. Pinkwich5, in my screenshots, is. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 16:15, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:I do, too. --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 16:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== What ''are'' we called? ==
 
Looks like we need to decide what our name is. On this page there are at least three different names... We have<br />
'''Welcome to Citizendium'''<br />
'''Write for the ''Citizendium'''''<br />
'''Why Citizendium?'''<br />
'''''Citizendium'' may be different...'''<br />
So which should we use? I think Larry has said in the past that it's '''the ''Citizendium''''', but it's not that way in the logo.<br />
If it is that, this page should be renamed '''Welcome to the Citizendium'''. (No italics in the pagename...)<br />
[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 15:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
And what about Eduzendium? I guess it would have to be '''the ''Eduzendium'''''. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 15:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== Random citations ==
 
I like this feature very much and wonder whether we should use a similar switch to randomly display one of the approved articles. To ensure proper formatting, we may need a dedicated subpage specific to each approved version, or at least an "includeonly" or "onlyinclude" section in the article itself. I just gave "onlyinclude" a [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=User%3ADaniel_Mietchen&diff=100506954&oldid=100503679 try] with some non-trivial formatting: <nowiki>{{User:Daniel Mietchen}}</nowiki> now gives <!--{{User:Daniel Mietchen}}-->
Such a procedure now also facilitates, via {{tl|Winner}}, the formatting of suitable parts of an article for inclusion into the Welcome page as the [[CZ:Article of the Week]] or [[CZ:New Draft of the Week]].
--[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 04:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:You mean just show a random approved article instead on the AOTW? Perhaps... but a lot of our AOTWs '''aren't''' approved articles at present. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 06:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 
::Daniel, I've commented your userpage inclusion above out, since it was slowing down page loading due to the number of videos. [[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 08:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:::Commenting it out now is fine - it was just the first demo. What I have in mind is to have the approved articles there ''in addition'' to the AOTW/NDOTW display, though I wouldn't be against alternating the display of the latter two in the same place. However, the space on the left is not effectively used at present. --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 22:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== Is this quote relevant? ==
The latest quote, added by [[USer:Anthony.Sebastian]], reads as follows:
{{Quotation|...the time had arrived for writing, the painful process, as the neuroscientist Susan Hockfield so pointedly put it, of transforming three-dimensional, parallel-processed experience into two-dimensional, linear narrative.|Natalie Angier, The Canon: A Whirligig Tour of the Beautiful Basics of Science}}
Is this relevant to creating a compentium of knowledge? All of our other quotes refer to knowledge directly. Also, this is rather longer than the others, though I don't know if that matters. Opinions?<br />
[[User:Caesar Schinas|Caesar Schinas]] 08:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:With all due respect to Anthony, it is an interesting quote, but it is not about knowledge as noted by Caesar.[[User:Milton Beychok|Milton Beychok]] 04:58, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 
== love the new front page! ==
 
I think it looks great!!! [[User:Tom Kelly|Tom Kelly]] 00:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:38, 31 May 2022

Archives
Archive 1, 5-30-09: User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive1 by Caesar Schinas
Archive 2, 8-14-13: User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive2 by Pat Palmer
Archive 3, 3-3-21: User_talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium/Archive3 by Pat Palmer

Links we may need after June 2020

Site Design

Not really sure if this is the best place to address this. Have you considered changing the site design though? It's hard to see material from an encyclopedic standpoint with the site zoomed in like it is, first of all. Kind of dizzying I think to try reading when everything is zoomed in. The gray background looks pretty bad also. --Joshua Zambrano 18:54, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Zoomed in? You mean everything is in close-up? You can change that, and the grey background too. I'll see if I can remember how... Ro Thorpe 19:13, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
You can click on 'my preferences' at the top of the page and experiment. Ro Thorpe 19:16, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
The default skin is Pinkwich5, which has a greyish background and enlarged font. The skin I prefer using is Monobook. I'm not a fan of Pinkwich5. The previous arguments in the forum of being seen to be different from everyone else and unique has not worked in attracting new users. Let's call a spade a spade - Pinkwich5 is garish and detracts from the overall aesthetic of the website. Meg Ireland 03:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Speaking of site design, what would it take to make Citizendium resize on mobile devices? Richard Nevell (talk) 22:39, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Richard, I very much agree that making the site mobile friendly is important. I suspect that our best bet of doing that is for our technical gurus to manage to upgrade the Mediawiki software. This is a daunting challenge, however, since at this point, each layer of software from the OS to the web server to the database to the Mediawiki software is now many versions out of date, beside which there are many customizations which have been made, in the past, specifically for Citizendium. They are working on it, and may indeed accomplish it, but such an upgrade will inevitably include some kind of rough waters. So--as of late August 2020, I would say there is hope it will get done, but I cannot say what the timeframe will be, since everyone is an unpaid volunteer and the matters are so tricky. Do know, however, that the software upgrades are in the works which should get Citizendium to be more mobile friendly.Pat Palmer (talk) 10:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Removing link to article about Citizendium until/unless it can get updated

This was in the bullet list in the lower right:

It needs to be revamped and updated. New contributors could be seriously confused by reading it. So, I'm now about to remove it from the landing page pending its revision. Then, we can hopefully return it.Pat Palmer (talk) 23:29, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Added "We strive for objectivity"

Since The Citizendium no longer enforces what formerly was called Neutrality, I've added "We strive for objectivity.", a short personal essay of my own, to the lower right on the landing page. I hope it won't displease you.Pat Palmer (talk) 22:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Stashing removed bullet item here (from lower left)

Archiving this here after removing it from main page because the information appears in upper right in a different format

Stashing the Monthly Donation Day link here (no longer helpful)

Archiving this link here after removing it from the landing page because it is so old and not being maintained, nor likely to be.

Physics Forums link on landing page

I have added a link to Physics Forums on the landing page (at the bottom of the bullet list). This is due to a deal with the Physics Forum owner, Greg Bernhardt. He doesn't normally allow his site to be used for any kind of solicitation, but in this case, if we link to him, I'll be allowed to solicit for physics experts over there to check out writing in Citizendium. This mutual linking is a new thing; if you know other social/technical forums where we might be able to work out a similar understanding, let's try it!Pat Palmer (talk) 23:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Worth giving a go! Richard Nevell (talk) 22:13, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Why Citizendium? needs updating; anybody?

  • See also Why Citizendium?
    • I've archived the above link from the landing page until someone updates it. It's still got all the stuff about Editors which is not being done in practice now (and may never return). Anyone want to revise it to fit current times? (Being nice, of course; we are not in competition with Wikipedia).Pat Palmer (talk) 23:49, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

old server

old server temporarily available at http://208.100.31.41/ George Swan (talk) 12:54, 28 March 2022 (CDT)

As stated in the Forum, the OLD server is at https://czold.org/ until May 20 of this year. Note that the old server has a pink SiteNotice on every page. The IP address you had is for the new server, and that is a bad way to go it. Go in to the new server at https://citizendium.org/. Please only post on this page if it is about this page, or something linked to it. Pat Palmer (talk) 16:30, 28 March 2022 (CDT)


archiving this link

In case we want it again someday: CZ:More_information_for_Physics_Forums_Members, I'll leave this link here. However, PF did not do its part in publicizing Citizendium, so I'm removing their link from the main page. Pat Palmer (talk) 07:37, 25 April 2022 (CDT)

Panel

headed "Some our finest" should mention Ready category. Peter Jackson (talk) 04:38, 31 May 2022 (CDT)

Retrieved from "https://citizendium.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Welcome_to_Citizendium&oldid=868327"