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Difference between revisions of "User talk:Robert Badgett"

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== Approval of [[Evidence based medicine]] ==
== Approval of [[Evidence based medicine]] ==
Hi Robert, from what I am reading on the talk page, you seem to feel comfortable with the article.  If so, woul dyou mind putting your name in the [ metadate template just below Supten's]? That would be three editors endorsing that version and we can lock the page and create a draft page for future changes. If for any reason you are not comfortable doing that, let me know. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 18:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Hi Robert, from what I am reading on the talk page, you seem to feel comfortable with the article.  If so, would you mind putting your name in the [ metadate template just below Supten's]? That would be three editors endorsing that version and we can lock the page and create a draft page for future changes. If for any reason you are not comfortable doing that, let me know. [[User:D. Matt Innis|D. Matt Innis]] 18:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:34, 26 January 2009

Hi, and welcome. Could you take a look at Hypertension? It needs you. Regards, Nancy Sculerati 16:57, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

we have no templates of any kind. The only health sciences articles that are currently approved are Infant colic and Contraception (medical methods). You can see how different those two are and they were both fine, so you should feel free to approach this as you feel you can do the best job. Other health sciences articles that are started, (some barely) important and could use lots of additions are Tuberculosis, and Cancer, Stroke, and Myocardial Infarction. Nancy Sculerati 18:37, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Robert (is it Robert?) I am pretty terrible at references and would advise you to teach me (once you figure it out) rather than ask me- although it's nice to get messages from you on my talk page. He isn't active tonight- but Gareth Leng seems to be great at this, and it's a pleasure to see your work here, by the way. Regards, Nancy Sculerati 19:30, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

No- try all the ways, andx we'll see how it works out. Nancy Sculerati 16:36, 21 June 2007 (CDT)


Hi Roger, I've been working on your LBP article. Are we heading in the right direction? If so, we might be able to pull together one more editor and work toward getting it to Approved status.. What do you think? --Matt Innis (Talk) 10:23, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the quick response. I responded on my talk page. --Matt Innis (Talk) 11:22, 20 July 2007 (CDT)

Venous stasis ulcer

Robert, I recently checklisted the article you started at Venous stasis ulcer and noticed that it was incomplete - not even in stub format. I had requested a delete, but was informed that I should check with you first and see what your plans with the article are and see if we should salvage it. Thanks. --Todd Coles 20:46, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

That page was a result of a discussion with N Sculerati about how to start a new page when I do not have time to write an entire page. The idea was that I would added sentences at a time. On that particular topic, I have done better writing at Although some of the pages I have helped on at WP I think are good enough to move to CZ with a little editing; I do not think is in that category except for its treatment section.
Ok to delete Venous stasis ulcer. Or if you prefer, I can bring over the treatment section only of the WP page. Regarding future pages, is there a prescribe course for starting stubs, or does CZ prefer I not start a page till its content is more mature?Robert Badgett 21:42, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
Hi Robert, the relevent sections of Citizendium Policy for stubs is just in the CZ:Article Deletion Policy:
  • it consists of two sentences or less, or 50 words or less, which have been left on the wiki for more than two hours;
Larry saved it! Then I expanded on yours some, so I wouldn't have to delete it, though this is not may area of expertise. Do look it over an make any changes you want for now. It shouldn't get deleted now. --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:54, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
ThanksRobert Badgett 22:42, 5 September 2007 (CDT)

Hi Rob

Nice to see you back. Let me know if I can ever help you in any way.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 23:33, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

Thanks very much.Robert Badgett 00:23, 9 October 2007 (CDT)

Accidental fall

I moved your article to accidental fall--I hope this is OK. The title should be singular, and the word "accidental" in the title makes it clearer what the subject of the article is. It's not autumn, and it's not a descending body of water. --Larry Sanger 07:49, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

You are fast.Robert Badgett 07:57, 17 October 2007 (CDT)
According to the National Library of Medicine, their canonical term is accidental falls. On one hand it seems ideal to match their term to facilitate future connectivity to other databases; on the other hand the plural does sound odd. Either way is ok with me.Robert Badgett 08:00, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

==Non-specific viral-like syndromes-- Articles to consider are West Nile virus, Dengue fever, borrelia (not lyme disease), leptospirosis, acute HIV, Enterovirus , and murine typhus. Maybe influenza and adenovirus.Robert Badgett 10:07, 18 October 2007 (CDT)

Do you want this fixed?

This. Stephen Ewen 01:03, 20 October 2007 (CDT)

There are a lot of technical things that would be nice to fix for CZ; I have littered the forum with some of them (highlighting citations/backlinks and nav popups). Fixing Infobox_Disease would definitely be on this (you must have been the person that fixed the link to the PMID on cite ref). While we are on a roll, how would I promote consistency in disease and drug articles such as done here. Thanks very much for anything you can do.Robert Badgett 01:36, 20 October 2007 (CDT)

Cochrane Collaboration Moves

Hello Robert,

Moving the Evidence–based medicine section to the Evidence-based medicine page and the Study guidelines section to Clinical practice guideline is certainly a reasonable idea. However, they are brief and should still remain in the Cochrane article with a link in the Cochrane article to your work at the Clinical practice guideline article and the Evidence-based medicine since they serve to briefly explain the concepts for the Cochrane Collaboration. I will put the links in now. You can copy and use what you think is appropriate of course --Thomas Simmons 19:12, 20 October 2007 (CDT)


Hi Dr Badgett, I just added subpages to Pericarditis. Would you care to check the categories? Aleta Curry 00:31, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Thanks. I do not yet have a feel for what the subpages add over just adding the same content as sections in the article. Is there information somewhere on subpages?Robert Badgett 00:58, 22 October 2007 (CDT)
Hi again. Okay, the subpages are for information related to the main article that you wouldn't want in the actual text of the article, and the article and its subpages is called a cluster. So, at a minimum, you'd probably have a bibliography subpage and a related articles subpage.
So, when I did garden, subpages are "related articles" (flower, tree) and subpage biliography (What Flower is That?, Gardening Australia Magazine), and subpage catalogs.
Yes, there is information and I'll try to find where it is, but I'm really bad at that. If I can't find the link, I'll ask Matt or Stephen
You can also click in the boxes all the way at the left, second box down, "Communication", then follow the link to the forums, where all the chat goes on. We've had some looong subpages discussions there.
Aleta Curry 01:35, 22 October 2007 (CDT)

Back again. Here is subpages info: CZ:Subpages Aleta Curry 16:06, 22 October 2007 (CDT)


Hi Robert. Say, what's the situation with Image:Materson_et_al._NEJM_1994._PMID_8177286.jpg? Are you the creator of that? Or who is the copyright holder? Is is it really licensed under a Creative Commons license? How do we know that? Kindly let me know. We need to make sure all images are in the clear or do what it takes to get them in the clear. Let me know if you need help. Stephen Ewen 03:00, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

I created the image based on text in the article based on data in the original article (PMID 8446138) and the followup correction letter (PMID 8177286). I thought was a good license. To me, basic scholarship always specifies sources. Is this not a good license? Thanks Robert Badgett 09:02, 26 October 2007 (CDT)
Okay, thanks, all clear. I was not sure whether it was taken from the source or based upon the source. Stephen Ewen 11:31, 29 October 2007 (CDT)

Medical errors

With respect to this edit to Medical errors: If you previously inserted information into a Wikipedia article, and then inserted the same text into Citizendium you need to credit Wikipedia as a source, provide a link back to the Wikipedia material and cite the GNU Free Documentation License as the license the text is under. By the way, I have no professional medical expertise. The information I posted in the article is derivative from the Institute for Healthcare Improvement. I'm sorry to start this article and then not diligently follow up with it, but I have too many other projects. Fred Bauder 04:41, 29 October 2007 (CDT)

This is mistaken, Fred. Copyright is with the creator of the work, not the publisher in this case. When person X submits something to WP, they do not transfer their copyright to WP. You own the copyright to what you create and submit at Wikipedia and you can later take your particular submission there and do whatever you want with it. Its your creation and your copyright. On the other hand, if another takes my work there, the GFDL is in full force.
Stephen Ewen 10:02, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
Of course, it would be nice if you can document that it is solely your work on wikipedia. This can be done by viewing edit histories on wikipedia. Then go ahead and place information to that effect on the talk page (up top somehwere), that would be helpful for authors that come by next year and think it was copied without attribution. --Matt Innis (Talk) 10:13, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
Per the article's history at WP, I created the section on Aug 16th and there have been no edits to it since. So should I remove the from WP statement on the CZ version of the article?

Robert Badgett 11:39, 30 October 2007 (CDT)


Hi Robert. The article I think was mainly written by Christo. I see your point about the organisation. As a physiologist I guess I would have gone for an organisation that separates a)the anatomy and physiology of nociceptive pathways and b) perception of pain.

This is approximately how it is organised, but the headings don't make this clear, e.g. the categories "neuropathic pain" and "nociceptive pain" are not equivalent. I think reorganisation would help.Gareth Leng 11:48, 30 October 2007 (CDT)


Hey Robert, we have this opportunity from the people at Merck that I thought I would run by you, what do you think?

NOTE: FOLLOWING IS NOT A BIO (but please read)

First, let me applaud your effort to provide a wiki with content from expert contributors. There is a great deal of information available free online, though not all of it is reliable.

Second, I propose a collaboration between Citizendium and the Merck Manuals department at Merck & Co., Inc. This department, of which I'm a staff member (Executive Editor, Electronic Publications), publishes The Merck Manual, a print and online textbook created by expert contributors.

We are prepared to place links in your External Links section of Citizendium topics to related material in our online version of The Merck Manual. Two examples:

Subject: Guillain Barre Syndrome. Your page: The link in External Links would go to:

Subject: Otitis Externa. Your page: The link in External Links would go to:

Unfortunately, we are not in a position to author material for you, but we'd be delighted to add value to your pages with links to our material. We invite you to visit The Manual at to determine for yourself whether links to this content is acceptable and desirable. In a preliminary review, I found 40 to 50 Citizendium topics to which we could contribute.

Please let me know if you are interested in such a collaboration.

--Matt Innis (Talk) 14:33, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

Very interesting, but I would not touch. I do not think the editorial processes of the Merck Manual are sufficiently transparent for us to be ok with linking to them. Note that they do not even put references in their content. Also, their chapter I looked at is two years old. I would link to emedicine before I would link to the merck manual.Robert Badgett 14:42, 30 October 2007 (CDT)
Interesting, Robert--could you say so on cz-biology and cz-healthsci, which I posted the proposal to? --Larry Sanger 14:47, 30 October 2007 (CDT)
I looked at,30.0.html, but did not see your thread.Robert Badgett 14:56, 30 October 2007 (CDT)
He means cz-biology mailing list and cz-health-sci mailing list. Stephen Ewen 16:16, 30 October 2007 (CDT)

Aristolochic acid, any symptoms/treatment info?

Robert, would you happen to have good information regarding treatment and more symptoms info for my Aristolochic acid article? David E. Volk 16:40, 7 November 2007 (CST)

Sound like you need a clustered medline search. Try a Vivismo search at HighWire (click here). After you get your search results back and make any edits you want to your strategy, click the tab on the results page that says "Articles Indexed by Subject". If you prefer a straight up medline search, click here. Looks like this compound may cause:
  • nephropathies of various types
  • bitter taste
  • genotoxic in vitro

..but that is after a quick sanc of results without reading the abstracts. - Robert Badgett 21:54, 7 November 2007 (CST)


Hey Robert, I made a disambiguation page for diabetes (disambiguation). I'm not sure that this is the best way to do it. Maybe use diabetes as a page to generally describe diabetes and then link to all the types. Either way, thought I'd help out some! --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:29, 8 November 2007 (CST)

That could be a good way to go; lets see what happens. Diabetes is not a term/concept according to MeSH; so this may appropriate. - Robert Badgett 08:37, 8 November 2007 (CST)
Wow, that's an awesome list.. you think we will end up with articles on each or will we combine a bunch? --Matt Innis (Talk) 08:47, 8 November 2007 (CST)
Some day, maybe we will... Note that by using the National Library of Medicine's xml, we could automate the building of medical disease pages. See Allergic rhinitis. I added to the causation section, but all else can be built automatically. Same for drug information pages, see Doxycycline. - Robert Badgett 10:07, 8 November 2007 (CST)
I think you are right. If we follow their classification system, we should be ahead of the curve and be able to recreate their rational nomeclature system. I'll see if I can fall in line with what you are doing. --Matt Innis (Talk) 10:35, 8 November 2007 (CST)

Compression fracture

Hi Robert, check out my first attempt at using the MeSHID process! I do realize that MeSH uses Fractures, compression but Larry seems to want Compression fracture. Does that work for you? --Matt Innis (Talk) 21:56, 14 November 2007 (CST)

I suggest choosing canonical terms with MeSH rather than MedlinePLus. If you check Mesh ( you will find Fractures, compression as you said. However, note that "compression fractures" in an entry term. I think entry terms are fine to use. I know that Larry prefers singular nouns. Either way ok with me as "compression fracture" also scores. Note that search plugins can make this work much faster. - Robert Badgett 22:01, 14 November 2007 (CST)
Good news. I've got the links loaded! --Matt Innis (Talk) 22:15, 14 November 2007 (CST)

Are these chagnes ok?

Yup, keep them coming! I appreciate all the help I can get ;-) --Matt Innis (Talk) 14:34, 15 November 2007 (CST)

Diagnostic test

Hi again, Rob. Could you review the additions I made to diagnostic test (opening two paragraphs). Also, please see my question before I continue adding subpages. Thanks! Aleta Curry 15:06, 27 November 2007 (CST)

Reminder! It's a party!

Your friendly neighbourhood Mistress of Ceremonies here, reminding you about the December write-a-thon! Please drop by and add yourself to the list of partiers--or non party-goers--as the case may be. You can leave a comment, question or excuse there, too--or talk to me Aleta Curry 16:05, 4 December 2007 (CST)

You deserve to be credited...

Well, I see you were working away on party day, which makes you one of the shy boys. I’ll have to come and drag you in next month! Aleta Curry 23:41, 9 December 2007 (CST)

Re: Depression page...

Thaanks for your input, Robert, it was well met on all counts. In the spirit of keeping open dialogue, see the Depression Talk page, rather than my reporuding my comments here. Blessings... --Michael J. Formica 08:06, 19 December 2007 (CST)

Hey, thanks, Robert! Looks great. I actually culled those references, so they were drop-ins.
Listen, my template skills are poor, at best. I noticed that you've scripted most, if not all, of the citation templates. If I gave you the parameters for APA references, could you put one together for me? I thought it would be good if the psych pages used that as a global standard, rather than mix and match or something else entirely. Thoughts? --Michael J. Formica 06:39, 20 December 2007 (CST)
The CZ Template:Citation builds a citation that is pretty close (maybe the same) as the APA format. Please send me an example and I will look it over. Emailing me might be easier ( - Robert Badgett 07:06, 20 December 2007 (CST)

The "fact" template my humble opinion is one of the most obnoxious habits Wikipedians got themselves into (after I left, mind you). Of course, I am all in favor of supporting facts that need to be supported, and I'm also in favor of pointing out that they need to be supported, but...I am not in favor of placing a snarky template on articles. I would strongly prefer moving to the talk page any statements that are so questionable as to require such a template. That's a more honest way forward, I think, if we are presenting our articles as for general public consumption and not for our own mutual admiration. --Larry Sanger 08:34, 20 December 2007 (CST)

I am glad you responded as the fact template was so conspicuously absent from CZ that I suspected it was by design. I think this gets at the larger issue of dispute resolution, etc. While your suggestion is cleaner, I find it very hard to implement. I find that discussions on talk pages get lost. Sometimes the discussion spills into the user pages of those in the discussion, sometimes the discussion spills into several talk pages if more than one is involved. Also, I find it hard to go back and check various threads I have on different talk pages. Lastly, I try very hard to avoid deleting/removing someone's thoughts. I much prefer to resolve or display both views. When I forget to provide my citations, I think it is much easier to respond to a fact template than to find what someone did with my missing text.
I propose that 1) we leave the fact template operational as its give the correct advice at the correct location, 2) we suppress display of the contents of the template when a author or editor is not viewing the page (eg when the public is viewing the page). 3) should I edit the template to something less terse than "citation needed"?
If you want to give editors the option to hide the entire disputed text from the public, we could explore the effects of placing a start and stop tag around the relevant text so the public would see neither the template nor the text. This would be an interesting option as sometimes I see important unsourced claims that I suspect are true (and would only use the fact template); whereas sometimes I see unsourced claims that I am pretty sure are not true and I would like to hide from public until resolution.
I do not think I have seen the word snarky before - but I see it is in - Robert Badgett 08:58, 20 December 2007 (CST)

Yes, commenting out text that requires support would be superior to using a fact template. There is no way to implement your (2) without considerable programming. But I think simply removing the text to the talk page is as good a solution as any. I'm very much open to other creative solutions. --Larry Sanger 09:05, 20 December 2007 (CST)

FYI, when completed, will do #2. Stephen Ewen 20:04, 20 December 2007 (CST)
Personally, I've taken to creating article-specific Sandbox pages. It will be cumbersome to continue this practice as the database expands, but, in the moment, it prevents contention driven by wholesale deletion of material, and deflects confusion by virtue of moving good, but unreferenced content to the Talk page. --Michael J. Formica 21:34, 20 December 2007 (CST)

Party! You're invited!

Hi Robert — Your neighbourhood Mistress of Ceremonies here. Don’t forget to come on over to the party and sign in at one of the categories! Aleta Curry 15:22, 9 January 2008 (CST) say ‘hi’ to me here.

Important housecleaning note

Hi Robert. I noted here that you copied over Medically unexplained physical symptoms from WP. In each and every instance where this happens, we need to do one of two things: 1) tick that little "from WP" box next to the save page button; 2) use this on the talk page of the article:

{{WPauthor2|your Wikipedia username|the name of the article on Wikipedia|A statement saying you authored the material at Wikipedia|~~~~}}


Stephen Ewen 23:03, 14 January 2008 (CST)

How about if I was a contributor to the section that I copy/pasted, but I am not the sole author.-Robert Badgett 23:23, 14 January 2008 (CST)
Then you'd use the second option, noting what you just told me in the section where you make the statement. This needs to happen each time it is so, or we'll get nasties from the WP folks. Stephen Ewen 00:06, 15 January 2008 (CST)
I just did this at Talk:Nutritional support. - Robert Badgett 13:17, 16 January 2008 (CST)

new drug pages to match your articles

Hi Robert, I have been trailing some of your articles and starting pages for a bunch of drugs mentioned in some of your articles, such as sulfasalazine, minocycline, leflunomide, azathioprine, folic acid, mesalamine, and perhaps a few more. I suspect you have more knowledge of these drugs than I. If so, have a look and improve them please. I basically started each page with a chemical structure and a short paragraph, with brand names and synonyms added. You could look at my home page and click the "user contribution" button to see which I made recently. David E. Volk 17:00, 22 January 2008 (CST)

Robert, I like the DailyMed template, very nice. Thanks for the tip. I noticed that you also added in the categories, which you should not do. The categories go on the Metadata template page and will show up on the main page. When I convert your pages to the "subpages" format, I remove your categories and type them into the metadata page.

I did not see any articles with 3-column brand names??

Do you have any plans to start a cholesterol page? David E. Volk 14:14, 24 January 2008 (CST)

Sounds like I need to learn more about metadata pages. Where do I find the metadata template page?
For 3 columns, see lovastatin and simvastatin.
No plans to start cholesterol. I will occasionally add to the pages for diseases relevant to cholesterol.

- Robert Badgett 14:46, 24 January 2008 (CST)


Good morning, Bob.

I replied Here Aleta Curry 15:46, 23 January 2008 (CST)

metadata and subpages template instructions

Bob, you can find the basic instructions here CZ:Start_article. There is a link to this page on the CZ:Home page, midway down on the left side. This will give you an idea of how to do it. For an example of a filled metadata template, go to the talk page of Lovastatin and you will see link to the metadata page on the right hand side. Click it and see what a filled page looks like.

You might follow the directions given the first time through, however, I find it faster to do things in the following order:

Follow step 1: Make the metadata page, then fill in the article title, then the type of English (variant=AE), the alphabetical directory listing (abc=lovastatin), status= (3 for stub, 2 for developing, 1 for very developed), category check= n (see below), cleanup='y' or 'n', sign your name with "by = four tildas", and fill in the categories. The "category check" = yes if you want someone to doublecheck your categories, otherwise=no. SAVE THE PAGE

2: Once saved, you will see a tab for the "talk" page, which is red if a new (talk) article. Click on this a put the text {{subpages}} at the top of the page. SAVE THE PAGE

3: Now you will see a revolving "Please Create Approval" page, click on this and SAVE THE PAGE that pops up, no edits needed.

4: Now click the "Main Article", place the same subpages text at the top and start writing the article.

Once you have done it a few times, you will find that it only takes 30 seconds or so for the process.

If you run into trouble, write back. David E. Volk 15:16, 24 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks for the referencing help

I'd do the rest of it in Clinical decision support system after the weekend. Supten Sarbadhikari 20:45, 24 January 2008 (CST)

My template doesn't like your data

Sorry, Bob, I had to remove your name from CZ:Group Status. My template is prejudiced against your data, for some mysterious reason. When adding your data in, it basically caused the template to break, so that no data after yours displayed on CZ:Group Status. I tried to figure out which line might be responsible for the problem, but I couldn't. I think it might be the length, but then, the template on your userpage ({{userplan-all}}) has no trouble with the length. If you can figure it out, I would be happy. Sorry! --Larry Sanger 23:11, 25 January 2008 (CST)

I just removed all of the long range plans. See if that fixed it. Seems it was probably either the length or maybe some of the embedded markup. - Robert Badgett 23:17, 25 January 2008 (CST)

I tried that myself. It does fix the problem, but I don't want to delete your data...

You might try adding it back in a line at a time. --Larry Sanger 23:28, 25 January 2008 (CST)

American College of Chest Physicians

I moved the page you created on this group to a subpage of your user page since it didn't have any text, just two (useful) links from which an article could be written. Feel free to move it back when it has some text, or ask in the Workgroup for help with it. Hope this isn't a problem... Thanks! Jesse Weinstein 15:37, 4 February 2008 (CST)

What will this do to the articles that link to this page? Robert Badgett 15:39, 4 February 2008 (CST)
For the moment, since there is still a redirect from the article to the subpage in your userspace, the links will still point where they did. It should be alright, for now. Jesse Weinstein 11:10, 16 February 2008 (CST)


I added a pretty unique photo there and sort of got caught in to adding some text. You might want to have a look at Talk:Echinacea. Stephen Ewen 01:56, 6 February 2008 (CST)


Hi, I was wondering if there was any special way to make a template on here versus Wikipedia. I was never good with the technical stuff over there. Andrew Sylvia 21:56, 8 February 2008 (CST)

I have done some simple things; what do you need? - Robert Badgett 22:52, 8 February 2008 (CST)

Probiotics in Holland

I saw that you wrote about probiotics. In the Netherlands there was lots of commotion about probiotics recently. Maybe you are aware of this. If not, see e.g., --Paul Wormer 02:45, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Yes, the Lancet RCT is what started me on this edit. See the section at probiotics on adverse effects: mortality. - Robert Badgett 02:48, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Protein C

Hi Bob. Thomas Simmons from Constabulary here. Was wondering if you had any plans to expand the article on protein C? We try to keep the number of very small, inactive pages to a minimum. --Thomas Simmons 05:04, 28 February 2008 (CST)

If you all don't mind leaving the small medical pages as they are, it really helps. I do not think any body in medicine has enough time to write more than a bullet at a time. If we require more to launch a page, it will become a barrier to adding content. As new research comes out on the topic, I will add to it. A number of the medicine pages have evolved this way. Slow, but works. - Robert Badgett 10:58, 28 February 2008 (CST)

OK. I will take this over to the Constables' discussion list and make sure they have been informed.--Thomas Simmons 17:42, 28 February 2008 (CST)

Drug Bank template

Robert, that's great. However, I don't think the proteomics and genomics label for it is the best, since the site also lists metabolism, mechanism of action, drug interactions, and so may other things. For most drugs, it has complete information. You might just remove that description, and say acetominophen: detailed information from the Drug Bank. David E. Volk 08:00, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Done - Robert Badgett 08:05, 5 March 2008 (CST)
Robert, does the template automatically fill in the page like DailyMed, or de we need to actually find the DB number and put it into the template like you did for the example? David E. Volk 10:43, 5 March 2008 (CST)
You can send either a drug name or its number as done in the examples at Template:DrugBank. Unrelated question: why copyright your drug structure images when almost the same images are available at DrugBank? Are yours derived from theirs? - Bob (Robert Badgett 11:51, 5 March 2008 (CST))

reply and template things

Many of the structures come from theirs, but they are sometimes mistaken, as are other sites. I started Copywriting because the template asked me to (ie You're almost done!). However, my images have the standard license agreement like everything else on CZ, so people can still use my images no problem (note the CC label).

For DailyMed, could you shorten the text slightly to fit on one line? I think it would appear nicer that way.

For DrugBank, can you add Canada in the text somehow? It is funded by the Canadian goverment. It might also lead more credence to the site.

Finally, is it possible to make one template, called CZdrug, for example, that would insert the text for all three sites at once?

I have updated over 80 drug articles to now include DailyMed, MedMaster and DrugBank. David E. Volk 12:45, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Sounds like the answer to your questions is that we are at the point to make a Drug Information box, it would include the three templates you said and also the chemistry information. I suggest you look at how WP handles this:
  • Example using reserpine (I always like to use reserpine for my examples because is has been so smeared inappropriately over the years. WP does a terrible job with reserpine. I think the first two paragraphs in the sections Uses and Side effects are mine.
  • The WP Drugbox template

You could rough out what you are interesting in on a page in your own name space such which I started at User:David_E._Volk/Drugbox. We could edit this till it looks right, then I can turn it into a template. This is a nice opportunity to start one from scratch to get it just the way we want. - Robert Badgett 18:00, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Chemistry style guide - drug section

Robert, could you please take a look at Chemistry style guide, the section on drug articles? Is there anything missing from this section that you think should be a part of all drug articles? Thanks. David E. Volk 13:46, 5 March 2008 (CST)

Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles

Hello. The proposal record for "Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles", for which you are listed as driver, says that the current step (vet this proposal to see if worth carrying forward) was due to be completed 1 March. Could you please update the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/Ad hoc, changing your self-imposed deadline and perhaps the next step?

At the moment, the proposal seems to be only advisory and not very detailed, so it may be worthwhile to develop it further. But if you don't feel like it, feel free to have it approved by the Biology and Health Sciences workgroups, as explained at the top of CZ:Proposals/Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles. -- The Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 06:46, 6 March 2008 (CST)

drug templates

Hi Robert, I like the DrugBank template and have implemented it and MedMaster is about 80 drug articles yesterday. I think the chem_infobox template, which is being developed, should be sufficient. Robert King and I plan on a simplified version compared to the WP version, which in our opinion has too much information. As for the three (DailyMed, MedMaster, DrugBank) templates, it is easy enough to type them in. I was just thinking that a combined one could be made by concatenating your current three templates or the new one could type in the text for three. This is certainly not a big deal either way.

I am more curious as Dosing information. Is this something want to avoid or encourage? To me, this seems like a real medical decision that should left to the personal physician, not a web site, but your opinion on this matter is certainly more valuable than mine. David E. Volk 10:55, 6 March 2008 (CST)

I'm no doctor, but I think this might be a bad idea as it would introduce a certain liability we would be exposed to especially given our stance that we have "involved experts". --Robert W King 11:16, 6 March 2008 (CST)
Robert King, that is exactly my concern as well. David E. Volk 11:24, 6 March 2008 (CST)
In the example I borrowed from WP, Drugbox, I do not see anything about prescriptive dosing information. I suggest that for now, let readers who want this level of detail follow the links to the FDA-approved label. Seem ok? Regarding liability in general, some online health resources are starting to have standard disclaimers on their web pages. Do we want to do that for pages that are in the Health Sciences Workgroup?- Robert Badgett 12:53, 6 March 2008 (CST)
How about in big, bright black letters with a jolly roger (skull & crossbones) next to it that says "IF YOU OVERDOSE AND DIE, WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE!" ;D --Robert W King 12:58, 6 March 2008 (CST)

my phrasing

I live just off of Jolly Roger! I was thinking something like this at the top of each drug page:

The use of any medication should be discussed with a personal physician and pharmacist. This page should not be considered medical advice, but as an aid to help foster such discussions. David E. Volk 15:37, 6 March 2008 (CST)

This discussion seems to important for a user page. I am continuing this at CZ Talk:Health Sciences Workgroup. - Robert Badgett 16:12, 6 March 2008 (CST)


Robert, could start the approval process for ketoconazole if you think it is ready? If not, could you makde any suggestions for improvement? Thanks, David E. Volk 10:17, 11 March 2008 (CDT)

I did some cosmetic edits. It would nice to be able to link to RCTs or qualified guidance to note under what circumstances ketoconazole is a first line treatment. I do not know this topic well enough to say.
Regarding the drug interactions, since most/all(?) are due to CYP3A4, it might be good to start the paragraph with this topic. Regarding P450, I think and maybe are excellent resources. I wonder about listing all of the interactions as once we do this, we have to maintain this. It might be best to link to another authoritative source such as - Robert Badgett 09:21, 13 March 2008 (CDT)


Hi Robert, could you cast an eye over Atkins Nutritional Approach, think it should be added to Health Sciences workgroup.Gareth Leng 05:53, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

Added - Bob - Robert Badgett 09:08, 13 March 2008 (CDT)

Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles II

Hello. May I please remind you of my earlier message, dated 6 March, on your proposal "Standardizing the naming of biomedical articles.". As far as I can see, you haven't yet updated the proposal record on CZ:Proposals/Ad hoc, nor have I seen any sign of activity on the proposal page. If nothing happens within a week, I'll have to assume that you are no longer interested in the proposal and thus remove you as its driver, which will render the proposal inactive. Alternatively, you may want to fold the proposal in a Health Sciences style guide, as David Volk suggested on the proposal page. -- The Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 09:22, 18 March 2008 (CDT)

I did not see any further action, so the proposal has now become inactive and I moved it to CZ:Proposals/Driverless. If you want to revive the proposal, just update the deadline in the proposal record and start working on it. -- The Proposals Manager, Jitse Niesen 17:32, 26 March 2008 (CDT)

I had left a message after your first query at CZ:Proposals/Standardizing_the_naming_of_biomedical_articles. about agreeing it should be moved to the Health Sciences Style guide. - Robert Badgett 19:12, 26 March 2008 (CDT)
Sorry, I hadn't realized that you decided to do this. Okay, go ahead and include (or get somebody else to include) it in the Health Science style guide. -- Jitse Niesen 18:32, 30 March 2008 (CDT)
Where is the style guide? If it does not exist, how do I start it? Thanks - Bob - Robert Badgett 20:36, 30 March 2008 (CDT)
I don't know. You should probably ask David E. Volk, he is spearheading the proposal to create workgroup style guides. Hopefully, he'll add details like this to his proposals. -- Jitse Niesen 08:19, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
I was bold and just started the Chemistry style guide, and after I had a decent start, I sent mail to all of
the Chemistry editors asking for additional input and comments, which were then implemented. So of that page is now
redundant with parts of the CZ:How To I started later. After making this one, I made a proposal that all
workgroups should this kind of guide for standards and to help new author know what is expected for a workgroup. David E. Volk 08:36, 31 March 2008 (CDT)


Robert, I have made substantial rearrangements to the Steroid article, including removal of the cholesterol picture. Have a look and let me know if you disagree with any of the changes. David E. Volk 15:03, 27 March 2008 (CDT)

Looks very good to me. Not too many references, but I do not think this type of page is destined to need many references. - Bob - Robert Badgett 15:07, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
Regarding references, remember that things generally known by experts in the field do not need to be referenced. However, we might fill in a good external links & bibliography section. David E. Volk 15:14, 27 March 2008 (CDT)


What is your goal for Thrombolysis in Myocardial Infarction (TIMI) risk score? You want it to be a section of the Acute_coronary_syndrome article or you were hoping for it to reside on a subpage within that cluster? If the latter, I'm not sure which would be the best choice. You can only use designated subpages names. You can see the current subpage names available at the top of the Talk:Acute_coronary_syndrome page in the Unused subpages section. You can create one by clicking on one of those links. Once you have decided on the final home you can add a speedy delete tag to the current article at Thrombolysis in Myocardial Infarction (TIMI) risk score using the format {{speedydelete|Create page by mistake|~~~}}. Chris Day 11:15, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for quick response. As the TIMI is linked by more than one article, I thought it should be its own page. I had the impression (incorrect I now see) that it could be a page in the related cluster of articles. Since that cannot happen, seems it should remain an independent page as it is. I forgot that a cluster can only have the standard offering of subpages. - Robert Badgett 11:21, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
One possible subpage would be Acute_coronary_syndrome/Addendum, but I agree with you that it is probably better that it exists in its own right, as an independant cluster. Chris Day 11:27, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
Thanks for working so hard on organizing us. I do have concerns that someone new to CZ may be intimidated by the process when confronted with instructions such as creating clusters. - Robert Badgett 11:40, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
It's definitely a hard process. I'm trying to make it as easy and intuitive as possible. Any ideas for improvements are welcome. Of course some might not be possible. Ideally, when you create a cluster, everything gets done automatically after selecting a few parameter options on an opening page (either drop down menus or radio buttons). Unfortunately, it will not happen soon, as far as I know. Chris Day 11:49, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

The {r} template, etc

Hi, when you create lists of articles, using the {r} template, you don't need to include the '*' - the template includes that for you automagically (and, in fact, adding it messes us the formatting). I fixed a couple of the ones you recently worked on, but I don't know if I got them all. Also, when creating a new article, don't forget to create lots of redirects (to find/prevent duplicate articles) - alternative-case, hyphenation variations, etc. I see you've done a few, but more are always better! Thanks! J. Noel Chiappa 09:44, 15 June 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the heads up. Robert Badgett

See The table probably needs to be remade, but for now it's a quick fix. --Robert W King 08:57, 22 June 2008 (CDT)

ED and drug pages

Robert, erectile dysfunction, sildenafil and vardenafil could certainly use your help during "collaboration week".

Med templates

Robert, I think I asked previously if you could write a combo medicine template, called something like CZMed, that would automate this information and standardize the formated. The format you left on my talk page is just fine with me. David E. Volk 14:32, 22 June 2008 (CDT)

Template {{CZMed}} is made. See Levetiracetam for example. Any changes you want to the template? - Bob - Robert Badgett 11:00, 25 June 2008 (CDT)
Sweet!, Thanks Bob. David E. Volk 11:07, 25 June 2008 (CDT)

Drug classes wanted?

Robert, are there any particular drug classes that you would like me to work on to match up with your articles or planned articles? At present, many of the antibiotics and antivirals are done, recently ED meds were done. That leaves many drug classes. You can find lists at the DrugBank. David E. Volk 09:29, 24 June 2008 (CDT)

I am mainly working on seizure / epilepsy medicines for a teaching project due in August. Note the changes I did to the sildenafil pages for its references. The Diberri too] is very handy for this. Thanks - Robert Badgett 11:36, 25 June 2008 (CDT)
I made a list of epilepsy drugs at Epilepsy/Catalogs and will be working on them as my next project. The list was obtained from DrugBank. Be sure to add any new ones they might not have on the list yet. David E. Volk 14:10, 25 June 2008 (CDT)
That is very nice - I did not know about catalogue subpages. I had been doing this with the 'Related' subpage. - Robert Badgett 14:23, 25 June 2008 (CDT)


I have no problem, although I believe the trend in disambiguation is more sign (medical). Chris Day probably is the authority on that. For consistency, we might as well disambiguate symptom, since that's a common enough usage in mechanics and such; we should make it clear that symptom (medical) has a precise definition. Howard C. Berkowitz 10:53, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

I would not say I am an authority. I think I am leaning to using brackets (during a disambiguation clean out that is what I used) but we need community input to set a standard. There are other issues too, that I do not have time to articulate right now. I will try and write a summary of the current situation and my recommendation. That can be a starting point for debate. Chris Day 11:06, 30 September 2008 (CDT)
Thanks, let me know if I can help. - Robert Badgett 11:09, 30 September 2008 (CDT)
Thanks, certainly any opinion you have is worth a lot. We need to address this problem from all angles. Chris Day 11:35, 30 September 2008 (CDT)

That orphan page template

That template is problematic since there are three possible reason why it may appear. The computer, however, cannot distinguish between the options and thus you have to pick the one that suits you best. In your case it is because you are starting a new article. Just click on the A link and you will have the options for starting various subpages in the cluster. True, this is not user friendly at all, but its the only way we can keep track of lost pages. Once you know what to expect it should be relatively trivial. The reason for the white space is I am trying to split up the different instructions. Maybe this is worse than having them all in one place? Chris Day 21:32, 5 October 2008 (CDT)

To me, I think it was easier to use before addition of the white space. - Robert Badgett 21:49, 5 October 2008 (CDT)
I'm sure you are not the only one. Chris Day 22:28, 5 October 2008 (CDT)

"It pleases me"

Isn't that the etymology of placebo? Good additions.

I thought I saw a typo, but it looks like a rendering error (I'm on Firefox 3.0). There's a big space, on my screen, between "World Medical Organization" and " 's". It's correct in the text.

Thanks for the box on the side; I've been wanting to learn how to do that.

More on RCTs, placebo vs. nonplacebo, etc. are really needed at the moment, with a very contentious article at Homeopathy. Thanks.

Let's think a little more about "placebo" vs. "placebo effect". The first is clearly an act. The second may not be any sham treatment, but the fact of any treatment. I wonder if a parallel to the "reverse placebo effect" of "white coat hypertension" might fit here somewhere? It does illustrate how mind-body mechanisms can work in either direction. (I have never been able to donate blood to the Red Cross, because I built their first donor screening software, and, having to have a volunteer drone question after question when I could just burst out the answers, was always hypertensive by the time they took my BP. I took it myself before going in and it was fine) Howard C. Berkowitz 15:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Your testimony

Please let us have it! --Larry Sanger 21:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Legionaire's disease

Hello Robert. They discovered Legionaire's in the water of UTMB recently, and I don't know much about it. Hint for a new article! David E. Volk 22:37, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You guys have all the bad luck. We have enjoyed hosting your medical students in San Antonio since the hurricane. Here is a bare bones start Legionnaires' Disease. - Robert Badgett 22:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Geez is that fast service! David E. Volk

Approval of Evidence based medicine

Hi Robert, from what I am reading on the talk page, you seem to feel comfortable with the article. If so, would you mind putting your name in the metadate template just below Supten's? That would be three editors endorsing that version and we can lock the page and create a draft page for future changes. If for any reason you are not comfortable doing that, let me know. D. Matt Innis 18:33, 26 January 2009 (UTC)