Talk:9-11 Attack

Article Checklist for "9-11 Attack"

Workgroup category or categories	History Workgroup, Politics Workgroup [Categories OK]
Article status	Developing article: beyond a stub, but incomplete
Underlinked article?	No
Basic cleanup done?	Yes
Checklist last edited by	Anthony Argyriou 13:12, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

To learn how to fill out this checklist, please see CZ:The Article Checklist.

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Questions

Is this the best title for this article? Looking at the redirects already creates, other options would be "September 11th terrorist attack", or "September 11, 2001 attacks", and the plural (or singular) of the existing title or the options. My personal preference would be September 11, 2001 attack or September 11, 2001 al-Qaeda attack, but it's not a strong preference. I do think the title should be singular, as it was one coordinated effort.

There are at least a couple of naming questions: How should the group, and its leader, be referred to? The article inconsistently uses al Qaeda and al-Qaeda, and uses Usama bin Ladin, even though almost everyone other than the U.S. government uses "Osama" rather than "Usama". Anthony Argyriou 13:12, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

very good points! I prefer the "9-11" variation as more pointed than "Spetember 11" (it downplays the month -- also because 911 is the emergency phone #). Yes, "Osama" is better and I will change that. Richard Jensen 15:56, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd prefer "9/11" to "9-11", but that messes with the mediawiki software. It'll be nice to see a good article here without having to constantly chase off the conspiracy theorists like they do at Wikipedia. Anthony Argyriou 16:52, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

I think the plural sounds better than the singular, but it's definitely better to use "September 11" rather than "9-11". Carl Jantzen 09:08, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Objections

Text here was removed by the Constabulary on grounds of civility. (The author may replace this template with an edited version of the original remarks.)

Is there anyway we can clean this up to meet standards? Denis Cavanagh 04:12, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

This article requires extensive modification to several sections, including the (unintentionally hilarious) 'World Response' section. I would like to quote "...The world had been accustomed to long-winded speeches about the need for actions which everyone knew would never happen. Now there was action, and the world stood in awe of America's vast military power unleashed with cold fury..." - this section, from 12th July 2007, seems to be satire. John Stephenson 04:48, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

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I like Satire with the best of them but this I feel, was not deliberate satire. It needs to be cleaned up. Denis Cavanagh 05:43, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

International Law and Iraq

Several places, this article says that the attack on Iraq was against international law. This is, at best, debateable. The United States had the authority to enforce the Gulf War ceas-fire, and an invasion of Iraq and removal of the Ba'ath regime was justified by Iraqi violations of the cease-fire. Anthony Argyriou 14:41, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Taliban and the Bush administration

I am unconvinced that the edit replacing "cordial" with "strained" in the following paragraph is justified:

Afghanistan's Taliban regime had enjoyed strained relations with U.S. prior to 9-11, but its harboring of bin Laden and his associates made military action inevitable. In late 2001, American and British planes bombed the country in support of the Afghan Northern Alliance - a coalition of warlords opposed to the Taliban. Subsequently, Allied ground forces joined the attack.

As far as I can see, the Bush administration supported the Taliban until 9/11, and Bush's links with the Taliban via a 1997 oil pipeline deal have also been noted:

BBC News: 'Taleban to Texas for pipeline talks.' December 3rd 1997.

BBC News: 'Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline.' December 4th 1997.

Ted Galen Carpenter, Cato Institute: 'How Washington Funded the Taliban.' August 2nd 2002. [Libertarian think-tank report.]

Also, I have copied the large section deleted during this edit to the Talk:Iraq War page to archive any possibly useful material there. John Stephenson 22:05, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Relations were bad between US and the Afghanistan government. Afg. wanted a pipeline but US did NOT approve it . That = strained. US gaved the UN $$$$ and the UN did provide lots of food for starving people, inside Afg. and in refugee camps outsde AFg. [1] as part of a UN humanitarian effort, and paid farmers not to grow opium, ut that was not support for the government.

OK, I think that the Taliban signed a deal with Unocol in 1998, but the agreement was withdrawn the same year. Also, the US gave the Taliban $43 million in 2001, which doesn't sound like the sort of thing you agree with a country with whom you have strained relations. John Stephenson 22:44, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Immediate response

Richard, please can you expand on the reasons why you have reverted the 'immediate response' section, including the removal of references - it has now returned to the heavily biased narrative in which we are told that there was no looting, panic, and that everyone thought Rudy Guiliani was "brilliant". This does not sound like a neutral article. John Stephenson 22:39, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

es indeed, the changes were not very good and had not been presented here for discussion. Looting for example--it's a mob activity and NYC knew what that meant after a blackout a few years back, and that did not happen. There was no panic. The consensus of critics was that Giuliani was brilliant (it made him a national hero and presidential candidate--the frst time ever a mor has done so well--that's "brilliant"). Neutrality between the attackers and the attacked is not a goal of CZ. Having diplomats "concoct" plans is bad writing. It is false to sa only the UK supported US war in Iraq--a large majorit of NATO voted for it and Many countries joined the US and UK in sending troops into Iraq (JapAn, Netherlands, Mongolia, Ukraine, Italy, Spain, Poland, Denmark Australia, Slovakia. South Korea, Hungar, Honduras, etc). If an author is unaware of that he should do more research. Richard Jensen 22:53, 25 July 2007 (CDT)