Template talk:Subpages4

I like this much better than the version that sits to the right. Only problem is that there are now two titles in a row plus the title bolded in the opening. This is overkill. Could we enlarge the size of the title in the template and ditch the standard title? I think that would look nice. --Joe Quick (Talk) 00:40, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Hmm. Not quite what I meant. I liked the way the template looked (plus the main article bit). Aesthetically, I'd rather see the default title that automatically appears at the top of the article removed. (Or maybe move the template above the main title?) Are either of these even possible? --Joe Quick (Talk) 01:18, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Not possible, as far as I know.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:23, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Apparently, Wikihow has figured out a way to do it.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:30, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Sorry for the multiple postings. It is a feature of Wikimedia that just has to be enabled, see here and here. Hmm.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 01:34, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

I found a wiki with it enabled, http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki, made an account, and tested it in a few ways. Main problem: you leave it blank it defaults to the title of the page anyway. Too, it diminishes the functionality of the search feature. When you click "Go" it does not bring you to the article title added to {{DISPLAYTITLE:xyz}} but it does show up in the search. That would require making that trade-off, therefore.  —Stephen Ewen (Talk) 02:02, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Hmm. Probably not worth the trade off. Thanks for looking into it. --Joe Quick (Talk) 14:28, 8 July 2007 (CDT)

Complicated?

Hi Chris,

I think I see what you're after with the info page, but isn't this ultimately too complicated, and too low payoff, to expect people to maintain this information correctly? That's the problem with all metadata. It has to be obviously of high usefulness, or people just won't care. --Larry Sanger 00:51, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

It depends. Only experienced users would be altering the data template. For the experienced users I actually think having all this data in one place is big advantage.

Inexperienced users will be wanting to start new subpages and putting one simple template on the page will work very well for them.

What of the payoff of being able to put the categories determined from the checklist onto the draft page, or even the article page? In my mind that is a high return rather than having all the talk page links in the categories. Chris Day (talk) 01:16, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

OK, sorry...can you explain to me briefly what this does? How does your reimplementation work? I could study the code but, well, it's getting late in this part of the world... --Larry Sanger 12:39, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

The quick version is that only one template needs to be added to the top of all pages. See the Anthropology cluster for an example, ALL the pages use the standard {{Subpages4}} template, no field variables are required. I've also fixed it so a signed article can use the same template (if your interested {{../../Info|info=pagename}} returns {{Anthropology/Info|info=pagename}} when used on the Anthropology/Signed_articles/A_test_signed_article). The pagename variable is stored in the central info cache for each article along with all the other critical info for each article (see example at Template:Anthropology/Info).

With this centralised solution to the template information it is now possible to automate the placement of all header templates, including approval templates, checklist templates. Best the categories can be placed on any page not restricted to the talk page.

So why is this an advantage?

1. In my experience new users don't understand templates or how they work. Now all a new user has to know is how to place one universal template on all the pages. It can't get simpler than that.
2. Ideally the creator of the article would also fill out the checklist fields in the articles information template but even this is not necessary since a category for articles 'with out a checklist' allows more experienced users to add the checklist data at a latter date.
3. New users also find workgroup category placement confusing and even more experienced user forget to add them after filling out the checklist or changing the checklist. This new template will be able to automatically add categories to the articles using the information in the checklist. If someone adds or removes a workgroup from the checklist this will be systematically reflect across ALL the subpages as well as the article.

I have not quite finished the anthropology example, I need to fix the article and draft article templates. I'll let you know when the working model is completed, then you'll get a better idea. Take home message is to use a complex template (obviously not great) to automate and centralise the use of clusters so that they are all internally consitent and user friendly. Chris Day (talk) 13:09, 24 July 2007 (CDT)