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User talk:Aleta Curry/Archive 3

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Jan 08-Mar 08

January 2008 Write-a-thon?

Hi Aleta, am I just completely an over-eager beaver this year or is the Write-A-Thon going to be happening today, January 2? Oh, and Happy New Year! Louise Valmoria 13:56, 1 January 2008 (CST)

'Morning, Lou! You're not overly-eager, ordinarily it would be scheduled for today, but due to expected...ah...over-indulgence, it's been moved to next Wednesday, the 9th. Non-forum frequenters wouldn't know that, so I'm about to post a note on the Main Page.
Can you be here next Wed? Pretty please?
Aleta Curry 15:07, 1 January 2008 (CST)
Morning Aleta! Thanks for that--I'll need to check the forum more often, I think. I will be here next Wed with bells on! (or maybe something less Christmassy--we're over that now). Thanks again for the update.Louise Valmoria 18:55, 1 January 2008 (CST)
And I went and fixed Write-A-Thon thinking it was this Wednesday... five minutes later User:Robert_W_King fixed that though :) Also, Happy New Year Aleta Eric M Gearhart

"Class acts" indeed.

;D --Robert W King 21:15, 1 January 2008 (CST)

No joke! We've got some really heavy hitters here, and (in addition to starting some stratospheric stuff), people have brought over some great articles from WP.
If you ask me, there are some statements in the WP/CZ instructions that seem snide--just shy of 'Wikipedia bashing'. I'd like to eliminate them all--it's been bothering me for months! Sigh--I'll just add that to the list....
Aleta Curry 21:35, 1 January 2008 (CST)

Fuzzy dog

Glad you approve: for a second I thought it must be a new breed - Ro Thorpe 08:38, 3 January 2008 (CST)

Black Beauty

Thanks for the edits...I was seeing how those subcategories worked! --Kate Fultz Hollis 09:36, 6 January 2008 (CST)

Party Hearty!

  • Hi Aleta, I could not be a complete bore two parties running. Usual dull excuses apply, but I see that fun is to be had here once again. Hope you are getting some rain, and not too much, wherever you are. My cousin is in Lismore and has eight rescue helicopters using the sports field opposite her house as a makeshift heliport for the floods. Anyway, back to it. Must get into the party officially somehow... Best, --Ian Johnson 13:47, 9 January 2008 (CST)
Excellent! Fab-u-lous to see you back--although I gather you've been using the brain cells a great deal on the PR front. The weather extremes are amazing, aren't they? We've just got tons of grey and drizzle; the Shoalhaven Gorge is only a couple of Ks away, and our property takes in a bit of Tallowa Gully--plus Le Shack and the construction site are on the side of a hill,so no chance of flooding. Were you in Germany for the hols? Must've been a blast! Aleta Curry 14:57, 9 January 2008 (CST)
Christmas in Brussels and the Netherlands. Here is a link to Chrissy in BE. Was good. <>

Time for bed here -- past! Anderson Cooper is rabbiting on -- and when you're in Europe and he pops up, you know it's late. Two Press Releases today hence my late slumber... --Ian Johnson 21:04, 9 January 2008 (CST)

'Night then! See you soon! Aleta Curry 21:16, 9 January 2008 (CST)


...for remembering to invite me :) Chris Day (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Not at all--delighted! Aleta Curry 17:02, 9 January 2008 (CST)


for inviting me! I hope to edit more extensively for the next write-a-thon. Hey, I have 3 hours of citizediting left before it's Thursday! Let's see what people from the West Coast have to say! Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 20:38, 9 January 2008 (CST)

De rien. Three more hours--whoa--that's ages! Wonder if we've got anyone in Hawaii?  :) Aleta Curry 20:49, 9 January 2008 (CST)
I dunno, but Hayford is in Tahiti, I think. I see he has edited my skin! Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 20:52, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Thanks but Sorry

Aleta, I'm caught in a job transition right now and hope to be back in shape by the next Geogra-thon! Supten Sarbadhikari 22:11, 9 January 2008 (CST)

Eeeewwww! Know how that goes! Good luck and see ya soon! Aleta Curry 17:22, 10 January 2008 (CST)


for the invite (and for spelling "neighbourhood" (don't know why i wrote "behaviour" before) the correct, Commonwealth way); sorry i joined a little late in the game! Simon Overduin 23:38, 9 January 2008 (CST)

- thanks for the invite, guess I was getting carried away in EdinburghGareth Leng 09:32, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Oh, you're welcome, you're welcome. I'm going to head over now and see how the final results look.... And, Simon, we shall have to hang tough against the Yankee hordes! ;) Aleta Curry 17:24, 10 January 2008 (CST)

Drink of the month

I see Brandy is listed as a drink of the month on the write-a-thon. Nobody actually edited brandy see the hisory hense why I refered to it as an empty bottle in my write-a-thon summery. Derek Harkness 19:55, 11 January 2008 (CST)

What??! Are you trying to say that we're not drinking enough? That will never do! Well, I don't know that we had a "drink-of-the-month" official policy, but de facto it seems that the DOM was one everybody got into (so to speak) so I s'pose you're right. Aleta Curry 16:15, 12 January 2008 (CST)
I completely misunderstood your use of "edit". This was not even created this month; removed tired old bottle from shelf! Aleta Curry 17:27, 12 January 2008 (CST)

CZ live

I tried, and it worked! Surprising indeed to see that the CZ live tag wasn't there, if it's supposed to appear with the metadata template (and some level of activity, am i right?).... perhaps the vit C page had no CZ live because the CZ super live or CZ so live it's out of this world categories don't exist yet? Pierre-Alain Gouanvic

Hee, hee, hee--you could be right! We don't have an adequate mechanism for dealing with the superlative! (yet) Aleta Curry 15:15, 13 January 2008 (CST)


Oh I'm sorry, I didn't really pay attention to Write-a-Thon, but I probably will write something next time. Thanks! Yi Zhe Wu 20:41, 13 January 2008 (CST)

Cool. I'll try to remember to remind you next month. Aleta Curry 22:55, 13 January 2008 (CST)


In re the discussion of Roman Catholic Church: what's a cluster? Could you direct me to a CZ policy page or whatever?

Right about the Catholicism article. That was what I added the "clarification" for.

James F. Perry 18:53, 18 January 2008 (CST)

Re Catholicism: yes, I thought that's what you meant, I was agreeing.
Re 'cluster': That's the CZ word for an article plus it's subpages, the Biology cluster.
I'm suggesting that for most topics, "History of XYZ" will not merit its own cluster, but will be a subtopic under its parent group. Obviously, for some large ones, yes, they will, and what would ordinarily be subtopics would merit their own clusters.
This is not cast in stone, James, our subpages are new and we're still formulating policy. Just my ideas.
Aleta Curry 16:23, 19 January 2008 (CST)


I think the the Diabetes mellitus type 2 needs to have treatment broken off into a separate page. Should/can I do this as a subpage? Thanks - Robert Badgett 10:24, 23 January 2008 (CST)

Y'know, I completely read this wrong first time through. I thought you were asking whether or not you could treat the article Dabetes mellitus type 2 as a subpage of Diabetes, and I was going to say that you *could*, whether or not you *should* would depend on how you wanted to structure your clusters, how much infomation was different for all the diabetes types, etc etc.
Now, on re-reading, I believe you're asking whether "treatment" as in "how one attempts to control or eliminate this condition" should be a separate subpage of the article Diabetes mellitus type 2, yes?
Well, I think that would be preferable to say, starting a new article on the treatment of diabetes this, that, and the other.
To find available subpages, you need to click the Talk tab, then look down to where it says subpages and click the "show" button over to the right.
If, as I suspect, that does not give you enough options that you like, then I would talk to Chris about customizing tabs for diseases and medical conditions.
Great idea. I would like to organize our medical subpages so they are more predicable.
A suggestion, if I may. Could you consider an introductory article to Diabetes? Or use the tutorial subpages on such things as Diabetes mellitus type 2? Just reading it, it's not all that accessible to the layperson browsing...I mean..."surfing" the encyclopaedia.
I agree that this is needed. However, I think the expert version has to be sketched out first so we understand the science before we write the basic version. This avoids our writing something in the lay version that is incorrect. I see this all the time where watered down versions of medical topics make unsupported, incorrect statements. Also, I am afraid I do not have the time for writing lay versions. - Robert Badgett 16:16, 23 January 2008 (CST)
Aleta Curry 15:43, 23 January 2008 (CST)


*PROD*... --Robert W King 14:38, 25 January 2008 (CST)

May you take a look to Fossilization?


months ago, you left a note that you are wishing to help with Earth Science articles, but how could you in such a specialistic field? And, do you remember my answer? You could help by checking out whether text were understandable and well written.

Well, that time is arrived at last. Fossilization is almost set for approval. It would be great if you could take the time to read it and comment. I thrust your writing style, you see...

Thanks in advance, I know you will help! Ciao! --Nereo Preto 10:54, 26 January 2008 (CST)

Of course I will! It's about 9 o'clock a.m. Sunday now, so I'm off to church, but I'll come back just for you in a couple of hours. Looks like we'll have a fine day, so I should have power--fingers crossed! At any rate, I promise to have a good, long look just as soon as I'm able. Aleta Curry 15:58, 26 January 2008 (CST)
Great Aleta, super-thanks! Nereo Preto 13:46, 29 January 2008 (CST)

Trouble with subpage call

I have been trying to get the subpages call to work properly on:

Olympic medalists in cycling (women)

After numerous experiments, I've given up. Any suggestions as to what might be wrong? The subpages seem to work just fine on the higher level pages of the Olympic Games catalogs.

James F. Perry 21:28, 27 January 2008 (CST)

Hi there, James. I've tried a few things, and I don't see it, either. Perhaps it just doesn't like another level? (sub-sub-subpages) I'd ask Chris if that's the problem.
Hubby's complaining he needs the line, so I've gotta go; will try again in the morning if you haven't worked it out.
Ciao! Aleta Curry 03:13, 28 January 2008 (CST)

I will ask Chris about the problem. I am beginning to suspect it is either a line length problem (that could be handled by re-naming the next-to-last file and possibly the last file in the line as well) or maybe it is the number of sub-levels. Hope it's not the latter. James F. Perry 10:20, 28 January 2008 (CST)

See my note on the page--it's the number of sub-levels. That's by design... --Larry Sanger 10:33, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Okay, then. James, Larry's note is on the "catalogs" talk page. Aleta Curry 15:01, 28 January 2008 (CST)

You act like I work here or something..

You should be all set up and ready to go. :) So can I use my Geograthon entry for the Write-a-Thon since it didn't get much attention this month? --Todd Coles 21:41, 29 January 2008 (CST)

Ignore that comment, I was thinking it was tomorrow and I'm all booked up. I think I'll go to bed now. --Todd Coles 22:13, 29 January 2008 (CST)
Yeah, well, we'll have to create a new category for you if you can't make it next week! Thanks! I didn't even remember about the Geograthon--saw the forum post too late! Gotta run--we're having a storm--deadly for solar power and dial-up! Ciao! Aleta Curry 22:15, 29 January 2008 (CST)
You should ask Jitse to modify the subpage bot to make write-a-thon announcements. --Robert W King 15:24, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Olympic Games catalogs

I just undid your edit to the Olympic Games catalog subpage. The listed sports are not supposed to link to mainspace articles on the sports in question. Instead, they should link to listings of Olympic Games medal winners (that is, catalogs). The sub-listings under cycling show an example. I didn't subdivide the individual sports because they may have to be handled idiosyncratically. Some sports medal winners lists would list all winners, male and female, on one list. Others would have to be divided into male and female lists, while others (such as track and field) might have to be sub-divided further for reasons of length.

I'm quite sure my revert is correct here. Articles in mainspace about the individual sports are shown in the related articles listing. Also, I used the official Olympic names of the sports as shown in the program for the Beijing Olympics. The article name on CZ might be different of course (see football for example).

I hope I am being clear above. It is the difference between an article about the sport and a list of medal winners in the sport (catalog).

James F. Perry 18:59, 31 January 2008 (CST)

Good enough; I must've misread. There will of course have to be a linked catalogue of Olympic sports, sounds like this isn't it.
Re naming: aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
Aleta Curry 15:01, 1 February 2008 (CST)


Hi, how are you? You seem to have created a lot of articles to date. Meg Ireland 18:39, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Yes, I write...that's what I do. All's well here in the Southern Highlands, just getting a bit weary of grim, muddy weather! Aleta Curry 18:51, 6 February 2008 (CST)
Ah, God's Country. Well it's been raining up here in Sydney. Guess I'll be catching you around on Citizendium often. Meg Ireland 18:56, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Thanks for the invite

to the February write-a-thon. And happy Chinese new year! --Christian Liem 20:38, 6 February 2008 (CST)

Me too, I've been snowed under figuratively and literally. Plus, I might need to get a new computer, too many crashes. Chris Day (talk) 22:48, 6 February 2008 (CST)
You're both welcome! And Chris, I'm a member of the might-need-to-get-a-new-computer club. Utterly depressing, I've no idea what to do. Aleta Curry 16:25, 7 February 2008 (CST)
Dare I say it -- Get an Apple! Sorry I missed the W-a-Thon -- got stuck in UK for work purposes with limited net access. (But at least my little old Apple laptop didn't crash. HeHe.) Thanks also for the invite Aleta, and raincheck is firmly attached for next month... --Ian Johnson 10:28, 10 February 2008 (CST)
Oh, Ian! You can't expect me to learn a new operating system! Especially one that's not compatible with...anything else?!
Anyway, you'd just better be at the next write-a-thon or I will drag you in by the--I mean--I will weep copious tears! Aleta Curry 15:39, 10 February 2008 (CST)

CZ International - thanks for getting us moving!

Hi Aleta! Actually, I think we should be thanking you for your organisational efforts, and for getting us 'on the same page'--literally, at least. So, thanks!Louise Valmoria 18:22, 15 February 2008 (CST)

You're all very welcome! I only write at a professional level in English, so I think I've taken things about as far as I can. Hope it works! Aleta Curry 18:35, 15 February 2008 (CST)

Yes, thank you so much! I have provided explanations of my position(s...) in both sections (public, private). I saw that you are taking care of the structure of the debate. If you feel that by being so detailed, I tend to obscure the decisional process, let me know. I may issue a complementary (and supportive) proposal, Translation Eduzendium, separately. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 00:04, 17 February 2008 (CST)

I think your comments are fine and helpful, the only thing I would suggest is speaking specifically to why you think the Citoyendium should be public rather than private. (Maybe you have since I first read your comments, I dunno.)
Also, the proposal needs a driver within a week or it dies. Is this something you would like to take on?
I'd be completely comfortable with a separate proposal on translations, though I'm a little afraid it would further diffuse the talent. But, as you wish.
Aleta Curry 00:10, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Hebrew handwriting

I took a couple of Hebrew courses at an Ulpan school which were sort of immersion based is the best way I can describe it. It was so different from any other language I had learned, and I loved it. That's how I learned the written alphabet--almost all forgotten now, I would think. Anyway, a work colleague told me that I wrote half in printing, half in handwriting. So not only do I not know typeface, I don't even know the difference between printing and joined up writing! Oh, dear. Aleta Curry 14:21, 17 February 2008 (CST)

Well, Hebrew isn't useful for anything, except for a few very specific stuff, like being an archaeologist or living in Israel. Yuval Langer 08:12, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Re Dog/Draft approval

Aleta, Dog/Draft superb. I would vote for replacing the current approved version. I've never put up an approval nomination banner, and do not know if I am authorized. I know Larry's working on a better approval process. If David does not respond to your request, try contacting Larry on the status of the approval process. Meanwhile I'll check to see if I can put up the approval banner.

A couple of thoughts/questions:

  • How old the cave paintings? Perhaps you could state.
  • What do you think of
  • Don't forget Lassie and Dagwood/Blonde's Daisy!

Nice contribution. --Anthony.Sebastian 15:57, 18 February 2008 (CST)

Thank you so much. I'll look into your suggestions! Aleta Curry 16:02, 18 February 2008 (CST)
Aleta, remember 'Snoopy" and 'Toto'. --Anthony.Sebastian 15:55, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Re Dog/Draft approval

Aleta, see I will give it a try, but hope others will step in.

BTW: How do we know we can establish better rapport with dogs than with chimps (or bonobos) unless we domesticate the chimps and raise them with us from pups? Consider the question rhetorical. --Anthony.Sebastian 20:01, 18 February 2008 (CST)

LOLOL - spit take my tea! I'm glad you let me know that was rhetorical, in the state I'm in I'd probably be pondering this seriously. I'll look at the thread--and thanks again. Aleta Curry 21:48, 18 February 2008 (CST)
More in the rhetorical category:

Aleta, I have a family member who has always seemed to me — no expert myself — to know a lot about dogs, and I gave the link to your article for her own interest, and asked her if she had any thoughts. She replied as follows. I pass her thoughts on to you for what worth they may have, as I cannot judge. If any have merit you might want to include, you can always save them for next draft.

“Here are a few of my thoughts on the article...

  • One thing I noticed in the article is that the author said that dogs mount each other or humans as a sexual behavior, but mounting is actually a mechanism dogs use to establish dominance among the pack. So when they are "humping" it is their way of telling you they are in charge. Either way it is a bad behavior but it is relatively easy to break.
  • It also said that after 3 mo. a puppy behavior towards humans is determined based on the amount of nurturing they are shown. I don't believe that is true, many puppies have very little human interaction in their first three months. If shown proper nurturing at any age a dog can always change their behavior.
  • Most behavioral problems are the result of the human not the dog.
  • In the article the author also mentions that cross-breeding is looked down on because it creates undesirable puppies, but many cross breed dogs like the cockapoo and the labradoodle are mated specifically because they are desirable. These cross breeds generally produce puppies with the more mellow demenor of a lab or cockerspaniel, but with the hypo-allergenic fur of a poodle. The poodle is one of the few breeds of dogs with hypo-allergenic fur, which makes them the most popular dog to cross breed with others.
  • It is also worth mentioning that dogs do better when fed a variety of food like they would have in the wild versus standard kibble.
  • Lastly, in the ‘choosing and caring for a dog’ section, the author should note the average yearly cost of raising a dog [in the U.S.] is around $1600, with higher costs in the beginning and latter parts of a dog’s life. “

--Anthony.Sebastian 15:51, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Well, first, I am relieved that these are all issues with the current approved version, not with my additions (I'm trying to pass myself off here with some degree of credit :). Except maybe the cross-breeding one, I don't remember how much I edited that.
This (though I hate to admit it) actually illustrates Larry's concerns about us all being "too nice" to just change things. In my defense I have to say that I do not change things written by another professional unless I am absolutely sure--I don't want to look like an idiot.
So here are some responses:
  • Mounting behaviour - a very good point, and I'm not a behaviourist per se, so I have to do some research. I do agree with the original author that mounting behaviour is sexual, but there is absolutely a dominance quality about...some? a lot? a bit?...I don't know how much of it..., so I will definitely look into that specifically when I can and adjust the text accordingly.
  • Early human contact - another behavioural issue. I think your relative may be right that three months is too early as a strict cutoff time. I shall survey some experts and see if there's a consensus (doubt it) and if there isn't, present some alternative views. The same sort of thing is argued about humans and babies, so I would think there would be differing viewpoints about dogs.
  • Behavioural problems the human's fault. I would certainly agree there. I don't know to what that relates, but I will look for it and amend if necessary.
  • Cross-breeding. Well, it's looked down upon (too mild a way of putting it) in purebred circles and by animal welfare and "animal rights" folks. The problem with cross-breeding theory is that the proponents of cross breeding always imply or state straight out that the animal with be an improvement on its parents, or that it will have thus-and-so qualities. This simply can not be guaranteed. Also, no animal has hypo-allergenic coat. The poodle has a coat that generally can be tolerated by many who are allergic to fur and dander, but the quality of the pelage of its offspring cannot be guaranteed. In fact, it was the failure of consistently replicable qualities which led to the abandoning of early labradoodle experiments. Having said all that, I'll certainly check the relevant section(s) for balance/bias.
  • Food. Definitely. I'll review and make changes if necessary.
  • Choosing a dog. I'm really rather against such sections in the first place, as this is so individual a matter. I'll review and add in your relative's suggestion. There is a "choosing a dog" article floating about somewhere, and it's been suggested that that should be a subpage of the Dog cluster. I agree, and what I'd really like to do is merge the material, move the "choosing" article to a subpage, and simply refer the reader to the subpage. That's been on the 'to do' list for a while, I'll move it up a notch.
So, thanks a bunch for referring it to another pair of eyes, and thank your relative for me for taking the time to read it. It's so good to have someone looking at it afresh from the outside.
Aleta Curry 16:22, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Nomination banner up for Dog/Draft

Aleta, Possibly I did a few things right to get Dog/Draft nominated. --Anthony.Sebastian 16:30, 20 February 2008 (CST)

Excellent, thanks. Meanwhile, I keep working on it. In between having a heart attack over fair use. Arrrrgggghhh!!! Aleta Curry 17:10, 20 February 2008 (CST)
Aleta: see --Anthony.Sebastian 14:25, 26 February 2008 (CST)
You did it!!!! Congratulations on the Re-Approval of Dog! D. Matt Innis 19:20, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Recipes again

Please have a look at CZ:Proposals/Recipes_Subpage_and_Accompanying_Usage_Policy#Next_steps.3F. Supten Sarbadhikari 23:35, 27 February 2008 (CST)


Thanks Aleta, the referencing seems quite adequate to me. David E. Volk 17:04, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Oh, good. Thanks for reviewing! Aleta Curry 19:59, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Congrats on March 01 2008 approval of Dog/Draft

Good work, Aleta. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:47, 29 February 2008 (CST)

Thank you, Anthony, for all the support! Aleta Curry 19:55, 29 February 2008 (CST)