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Difference between revisions of "User talk:Approval Manager"

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(November 1st reapprovals: thanks)
(R.E.M. ready for nomination for approval)
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:::::::Am I missing the whole point of Editorship?  How can Anthony, no matter how distinguished an Editor and Author he may be in other fields (and he most certainly is), nominate, in an official capacity, an article about music to be approved?  The metadata category clearly says "music" and nothing else.  I don't believe that Howard, for instance, who is a Computers Editor and an Engineering Editor, could put his official imprimatur on, say, my tennis article about [[Ray Casey]] and declare it ready for approval on November 15th (if only we could find two Sports Editors to *also* approve it).  Am I completely wrong about this, or is Anthony?  One of us has to be.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 23:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Am I missing the whole point of Editorship?  How can Anthony, no matter how distinguished an Editor and Author he may be in other fields (and he most certainly is), nominate, in an official capacity, an article about music to be approved?  The metadata category clearly says "music" and nothing else.  I don't believe that Howard, for instance, who is a Computers Editor and an Engineering Editor, could put his official imprimatur on, say, my tennis article about [[Ray Casey]] and declare it ready for approval on November 15th (if only we could find two Sports Editors to *also* approve it).  Am I completely wrong about this, or is Anthony?  One of us has to be.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 23:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Hayford, you're absolutely right.  I should have been more clear.  He ''can't'' nominate it.  Coud you, as a constable, remove the nomination?  Otherwise I'll do it as Approvals Manager tomorrow.  --Joe ([[User:Approvals Manager|Approvals Manager]]) 23:36, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
== November 1st reapprovals ==
== November 1st reapprovals ==

Revision as of 23:36, 29 October 2009

Please start a new section for each new topic. Resolved discussions will be moved to an archive.

Approval Manager
How to use the Template:Archive box
Current talk page
Archive 1, Archive 2

Homeopathy reapproval

Hi, Joe, could you take a look at the last comment section at Talk:Homeopathy/Draft and tell us what you think needs to be done. Ie, how many Editors do we need, and who can they be? As far as Constable approval, I've been working on the draft, so I'm out. Matt *hasn't* worked on the draft, but was, I believe, an Editor for the *Approved* version. I'm sure that there are other technical aspects also to be considered. Thanks! Hayford Peirce 16:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Another issue -- please see the new Forum topic

Bibliographies in Approved articles apparently aren't protected!

See:,2675.0.html Hayford Peirce 23:06, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Good timing! I've been wanting to address that. I replied in the forum thread. --Joe (Approvals Manager 14:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC))

Starting series on their way

I'd like to start several series of articles on the way to approval, starting with the hopefully less controversial top-level. One good starting place is interrogation and a more challenging one is extrajudicial detention. They have "peer" or even higher-level articles such as eduction and elicitation, as well as going down into national and period policy.

Are the workgroups realistic in terms of coverage and available editors? Howard C. Berkowitz 15:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Finding a law editor could be a challenge. There is a lawyer at the University of Chicago who chairs the program in human rights and who likes me a whole lot who I might be able to convince to help us out. She's awfully busy though, so I don't want to waste a favor unless we're really confident that we've done the best job possible.
Otherwise, Roger Lohmann and Shamira Gelbman can probably cover politics and Daniel Mietchen can probably cover psychology, but I don't think these topics are within the fields of expertise for any of them. I'm at work now and waiting for a student who should be here in a few minutes, but I'll try to give it some attention tonight. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 16:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Could we consider using the available editors for the primary tasks, but getting non-citizen law experts to submit reviews to you? We're going to have the problem of expertise at the workgroup level of granularity; while I may be an expert on routing, I'm not on HTML, although both are Computers. In like manner, I know a lot about some military and intelligence technologies and periods, but, since I've been on a horse twice, I'm not the best to be writing about horse cavalry.
Apropos of that last, relatively few of the United States Army Special Forces personnel sent into Afghanistan to fight with the Northern Alliance could ride, and were severely chafed. Since there was no opportunity to measure them for chaps, the eventual solution was to airdrop heavy-duty pantyhose. Howard C. Berkowitz 16:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
That is amusing. What article is that in?Drew R. Smith 07:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Afghanistan War (2001-). I expanded the section, and, since it's presumably stable material, put it into a text box. In general, I avoid text boxes as hard to edit while collaborative work is in progress.
In this case, my major concern is the background color — should it properly be beige, taupe, Nearly Nude, etc., and should it show texture? Was there any experimental use of fishnets? Howard C. Berkowitz 16:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Howard, the very short subsections in interrogation bother me. They make the article feel unfinished even if there isn't anything more to say about those topics. Is there a way that some or all of them could be incorporated into other parts of the text? --Joe (Approvals Manager) 16:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Other than things that should be clearly introductory to subordinate sections, I think those have been cleaned up. Howard C. Berkowitz 17:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
We don't seem to have progressed; any way to get this moving again. Incidentally, relatively short subsections do help greatly when wikilinking to other articles; I might agree with you if this were a pure linear paper document. Howard C. Berkowitz 05:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
May I remind you? It is possibile to add anchors as link targets without using sectioning commands. Peter Schmitt 09:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Also remember that short sections have readability advantages, especially with small or low resolution screens. What might seem unfinished in a printed document is good human interface design in a hyperdocument. Howard C. Berkowitz 17:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[outdent] You're right, Howard; I lost track of this one. I'll get back to it as soon as I can manage. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 18:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Kamehameha I

In my opinion, Kamehameha I is as close to being "complete" as it can be. I think I have covered all major aspects of his life. I am asking you four; Joe Quick (as approvals manager), Roger Lohmann (as a history and politics editor), Russell Jones (as a history editor), and Howard Berkowitz (as a military editor), to look over the article and suggest any changes you think neccessary. Between the five of us, I don't see why we can't get this article improved. Thanks for your time. Drew R. Smith 09:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Re-approval of Amine gas treating/Draft

Joe, a day or two ago, I made a number of revisions/additions to the Amine gas treating/Draft article as suggested by Wim Van Wassenhove ... so the article is in need of re-approval. The original approval was by David E. Volk. Milton Beychok 17:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Would you put me in contact with a Mathematics editor?

Hi Joe,

Paul Wormer and I have been working on the article "Associated Legendre Functions". I think it is now ready for promotion to "ToApprove" stage. I have been working with Peter Schmitt on another article and intended to ask him to do this. However, Peter will not be available for the next 2 weeks. Would you recommend a mathematics editor that Paul and I can work with to get the article approved? Also, does the approval target the cluster or just one of the articles in a cluster. In other words, do I have to make an approval request for the main article and for each sub-page in the cluster or does approval focus on all of the pages in a cluster? Dan Nessett 17:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

One way to do this is by having a look at the active editors listed in the following table (obtained via {{Workgroup|group= Mathematics}}):
The Citizendium Mathematics Workgroup
Mathematics article All articles (890) To Approve (0) Editors: active (7) / inactive (13)
Authors (277)
(Userinfo System)
Mathematics Workgroup Discussion
Recent changes Citable Articles (22) Mailing list (defunct):
Checklist-generated categories: Underlinked (431) | Cat Check (268) | Cleanup (0)
Subpage categories: Definitions (877) | Related Articles (791; to check 394) | Bibliography (220) | External Links (118) | Gallery (1) | Video (4) 
Missing subpage categories: Definitions (6) | Related Articles (5) | Bibliography (5) | External Links (4) 
44 Developed [1] | 399 Developing [2] | 394 Stub [3] | 24 External [4] | 66 Advanced [0-1] | 467 Nonstub [0-2] | 861 Internal [0-3]
Daniel Mietchen 17:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Right. However, I don't know which of these are actually "active." That is, after reading some of the comments on various fora, it appears there are editors who are listed as active, but in fact rarely show up. I would like to contact a mathematics editor that will work with us on a reasonable time-scale. Since I don't know which of the listed editors are actively participating, I was hoping Joe would have a better handle on the question. Dan Nessett 18:19, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Henry's Law needs re-approval again

Joe, I just made some significant fixes to Henry's law as explained on its Talk page. It needs re-approval again. This one and Amine gas treating which also needs re-approval (see above) were both approved originally by David Volk. Would you please contact him about re-approving both of them? Thanks, Milton Beychok 21:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I made 2 suggestions for the Amine gas treating article, and I will get around to Henry's law as time allows. There are alot of little math changes that are hard to "see" by looking at the "differences". David E. Volk 02:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, David. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 14:59, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Re-Approval of Amine gas treating

Joe, how do I nominate a draft for approval? Can I just paste in the lastest draft link in place of the old one? David E. Volk 21:18, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, David, paste that link in the url= and then put your name at ToA editor= and the green template should miraculously appear. D. Matt Innis 22:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
Yep, that's all it takes. That goes for any other articles you want to re-approve too. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 12:54, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Give the article a look-see to determine if it worked please. David E. Volk 18:28, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Joe, is changing the url link something you could do? Or can I do it? Or is that not kosher? Milton Beychok 18:39, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
OK, I copied the link for the current Draft page into the metadata page for approval. If this is not the correct procedure, please let me know. David E. Volk 22:36, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
David: Yes, that's exactly right. We should be all set.
Milt: It's obviously unnecessary now, but it would have been kosher for you to change the url only if you also became an approving editor. I would have done it using the Approvals Manager account if it had been unquestionably clear which version he intended to nominate, but it is better for approving editors to do this type of thing themselves.
--Joe (Approvals Manager) 18:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Joe, the reason I asked if it was kosher is that I was the creator of that article and virtually its only contributor. In fact, the reapproval was needed because of changes/additions that I made and I don't think I could sign on as an additional approving editor.Milton Beychok 18:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Speech recognition

While it's not a subspecialty, I have a working knowledge of the subject, and the article seems decent. Beyond fixing the title, it needs citation cleanup, as a number are simply external links while others are just URLs. Can I do that as an approving Editor? Howard C. Berkowitz 05:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I'll see if any of the authors would be interested in cleaning up the links. You could probably do it yourself as an editor, since it is primarily copyediting for stylistic requirements. But if we can find someone else to do it, we don't have to even think about that. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 18:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Does approval of main article include approval of subpages?

Joe. Peter Schmitt has raised an important issue. The Sturm-Liouville and Associated Legendre functions article have subpages on which are proofs of results on the main page. The question that Peter has is whether approval of the main article includes approval of the subpages? If not, how are subpages approved? Thanks. Dan Nessett 02:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

An entire cluster can be approved or just the main article. The problem is the lack of procedures for locking the approved subpages and creating draft spaces. It comes down to a technical problem, from what I understand. This would, I think, be fixed by migrating subpages to namespaces of their own but we'll need to think about implementation. I hope to tackle this as my next big project after the charter is in place. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 19:40, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Probably, for most subpages, approving and locking will not be needed or practical, even if such a possibility is created. But if one wants to relate the approved page with a specific version of a subpage: Wouldn't it be enough to put links to that version into the approved page? Peter Schmitt 23:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, maybe. That's an interesting idea. Let me think about it. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 23:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Good idea, Peter. Dan Nessett 23:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Approval of Joule-Thomson effect due tomorrow

Joe: Please see comment by Hayford at Talk:Joule-Thomson effect. The changes made by Hayford were very minor copy edits. If David Volk (the original nominating editor) doesn't change the approval version by tomorrow, is it okay if I do it? I am the author of the article. Milton Beychok 22:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)


Hi, Joe, would you take a look at and see what can be done? Thanks! Hayford Peirce 18:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


I have just nominated Anycasting for approval. Peter Schmitt 23:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I did fix a broken link in External Links. Howard C. Berkowitz 00:52, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, Peter. Let me know if you need any assistance. It looks like you're in good shape. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 01:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Great Siege of Scarborough Castle

Hi - this article is an expanded version of a section of the approved Scarborough Castle article. I am seeking approval for this one too (this version) following comments made by Howard on its Talk page. Thanks. John Stephenson 07:15, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Social capital

I have just nominated Social capital for approval. I'm going to notify editors in Economics and Politics and invite them to join me. Roger Lohmann 23:22, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Great! Let me know if you need my help with anything. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 04:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

R.E.M. ready for nomination for approval

I did the MediaWiki conversion for this article, R.E.M.. It seems ready for consideration for approval. Needs Music Workgroup nomination. Will you find a music editor to nominate it? I don't think I can nominate it, as Biology and Health Sciences Editor. Anthony.Sebastian 02:52, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Led Zeppelin has been waiting for approval for more than 18 months. There are no music editors active to approve articles in that workgroup. Meg Ireland 04:32, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
I hope to recruit some soon. I'll do my best as soon after the charter process is complete. --Approvals Manager 16:04, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
"I will dance, I will sing, and my laugh shall be gay, I will charm every heart in this crowd I survey." If you succeed, that is.... Hayford Peirce 16:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps Meg can suggest some people from the industry. I have mixed feelings about approaching the RIAA, but they are a possible source. Howard C. Berkowitz 16:48, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Situation calls for innovative solution. Since I worked extensively on R.E.M. as part of wiki-formatting it, I took editorial license, so to speak, and nominated it myself, imposing a two-week review period. On the talk page, our Editor-in-Chief gave it his nod, which embolded me. I'll email the editor-list to seek music cognoscenti who might want to 2nd-3rd the nomination. Suggest someone do the same for Led Zeppelin. Anthony.Sebastian 20:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Anthony, we'll certainly try to find a music editor to approve the article, but we need a music editor. I don't see where Larry left a note on the talk page. Could you point me to it? --Joe (Approvals Manager) 23:15, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Am I missing the whole point of Editorship? How can Anthony, no matter how distinguished an Editor and Author he may be in other fields (and he most certainly is), nominate, in an official capacity, an article about music to be approved? The metadata category clearly says "music" and nothing else. I don't believe that Howard, for instance, who is a Computers Editor and an Engineering Editor, could put his official imprimatur on, say, my tennis article about Ray Casey and declare it ready for approval on November 15th (if only we could find two Sports Editors to *also* approve it). Am I completely wrong about this, or is Anthony? One of us has to be.... Hayford Peirce 23:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Hayford, you're absolutely right. I should have been more clear. He can't nominate it. Coud you, as a constable, remove the nomination? Otherwise I'll do it as Approvals Manager tomorrow. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 23:36, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

November 1st reapprovals

There are two reapprovals coming up soon -- Matt walked me through the last one, so I think I can do them. Please note, however, that *both* these articles have versions as of Sept. 30th that are supposed to be reapproved. There has been extensive editing to both articles since Sept. 30th. I will, however, be reapproving the Sept. 30th versions. Hayford Peirce 16:30, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you should approve the version that is nominated. I suggested on the talk page of both article just after we got three editors that we could move the approval date up, but nobody acted on it. If there have been more edits, then we might have to reapprove again but if none of the editors update the version to be approved then we'll deal with it later. --Joe (Approvals Manager) 23:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
That's what I thought. Thanks. Hayford Peirce 23:26, 29 October 2009 (UTC)