User talk:Hayford Peirce: Difference between revisions

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==[[2012]]==
I wrote this article quickly, probably could use an experienced writer such as yourself (if interested) to spruce it up. Big traffic driver.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 17:47, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:I would go *insane* if I had to work on a article like this!  I take it there's both a movie, a cult, and what else, books, about this nonsense?  If so, then you should mention all of them at least in passing.  Good luck, and don't let your mind rot.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::Too late. Mind already rotted. But wanted to ask: is there any truth to rumors that your book ''The Burr in the Garden of Eden'' was responsible for launching the [[2012]] hysteria? Please comment.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 17:57, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::It was probably the group sex scenes in which they are channeling Reichian [[orgone]]s that caused all the problems.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 18:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Hayford I would like your permission to upload a picture of the cover of your book ''The Burr in the Garden of Eden'' for an article.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 18:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:Burr_in_the_Garden_of_Eden.jpg|thumb|right|200px|The German cover of The Burr in the Garden of Eden]]
:::::I suspect that Hayford cannot give that permission. You almost certainly have to go to the publisher. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 19:05, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::I think that Chris is right, unless we want to try using the "Fair Use" doctrine, applying small scans of book covers.  WP first did it this way, then deleted them all, then restored some of them, along with *long* justifications.  I dunno why we couldn't do it here, but, I think, people have argued about this for years. In any case, I know the publisher, so I'll email him and ask him to grant permission. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 19:18, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Thanx.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 19:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::In the world of science, if i write a review and want to include my own photo, one published in another journal, then I have to get permission from the publisher of the primary journal.  We never own the material that we publish. It may be different in literature, but I doubt it, unless the books are self published, which is becoming more common. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 19:25, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::It's the same in lit. as in sci. It's just that the "fair use" doctrine has been batted back and forth ever since I joined CZ 3 years ago.  If we can justify it under "fair use", then it doesn't matter who owns it  In any case, I have just emailed the publisher. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 19:30, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::Certainly I'm not clear on fair use. To me, if we're not profiting from it and only using it to promote the book, its hard to imagine how anyone could challenge it as not being "fair use". But our worry is not a common sense interpretation but the legal definition. Of that I am ignorant. Possibly your publisher could clarify what they mean and accept as 'fair use'? [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 19:35, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::A little qualifier to Chris' above comment on copyright in science: This ''never'' has long been true but a growing number of [[scientific journal]]s practice [[Gold Open Access]], i.e. their content is now [http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=licensedJournals CC-licensed]. --[[User:Daniel Mietchen|Daniel Mietchen]] 19:57, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::I don't think the publishers have a clear idea either.  I know that Stephen Ewen and I used email Time magazine and such like and explain that we were a non-profit, etc. etc.  They would reply, "Yes, we understand, so we'll only charge $1000 per use of our covers."  So screw 'em -- I myself think that "fair use" would let us use these covers. Especially if we throw in enough boilerplate explanation, as WP people are now doing. See, for instance, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Interlop11.jpg with all the boilerplate. I dunno why we couldn't do exactly the same thing. What's the absolute *worst* that could happened if we did?  Well, I suppose that Larry could be thrown into prison for 300 years.  Well, maybe not.... So, I myself, would unleash the unrestricted "fair use" doctrine all over CZ.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 20:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
==Those orgones==
[[User talk:Thomas Wright Sulcer/sandbox7|The Burr in the Garden of Eden (book)]] -- is this a good title for the article. I knew those orgones were responsible.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 20:19, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:No need to put book after it, since there's absolutely no confusion about it. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 20:24, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::Is the German cover "family friendly", or can I use it to illustrate [[Pornography]] (soft-core, of course)...giggling at said policy. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 21:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::It's *my* sort of family friendly, but I dunno what Charlie Manson would say about it.... As far as *I'm* concerned you can use it anywhere, including an article about [[Orgone]].... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 21:40, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Sibling revelry, perhaps. Hmmm...my mother's library did have some of Reich's orgone books, but I don't know if I even still have them in storage.
::::I am, incidentally, a bit surprised there has been zero comment about [[pornography]]. Yes, I think it's objectively written, but what does it take to do a controversial article around here if you aren't a homeopath? My Israel-Palestine work hasn't gotten any outrage.
::::This is reminding me, all too much, of the comment that even the people who write viruses don't support the Macintosh. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 21:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::No pix, I suppose, so no one cares.  Or they're all busy over at the WP article, vandalizing, rewriting, and arguing. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:07, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::One of the reasons I wrote it was to test Daniel's theory that an approvable article had to be illustrated, and, further, as a first sensitive topic to test the "ff" policy. As you point out, does anyone care? Should I try a serious article about erotic pain and the different philosophies of "safe, sane and consensual" vs. "risk aware consensual kink"? [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 22:23, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Only if you want to put me, and probably everyone else, *really* to sleep. Although I suppose that the next time I wake up at 3 in the morning, as today, and have trouble getting back to sleep, I could come out and look at it for an effective somnifère... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::PS, you might add to the Victoriana section of the porn article that there is truly nothing in the world *duller* than Prince Albert's porn.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:31, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::You refer, I assume, to his writing, as opposed to the eponymous body modification?
:::::::::The convergence of pornography and being "up" at night, I suspect, is best left to [[Eric Massa]].
:::::::::I could also write in the Alex Comfort style, or a harder but not necessarily inflammatory style, or go to the deliberately dense Masters & Johnson approach. Nevertheless, this will need to be examined by the new EC. 22:41, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
== Fair Use ==
Just received this from the publisher of Wildside Press:
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:56:08 -0400
Message-ID: <9221c331003151356y5de3571eid35fceef4d9bba30@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Attention: John Betancourt -- cover permission requested
From: John Betancourt <wildsidepress@gmail.com>
To: tahiti@post.harvard.edu
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c9d848887a0481dd1c73
Of course -- you don't need permission, though. I view it as fair use.
Which reminds me -- I've been meaning to drop you a note. I have found a new printer that doesn't charge the $12/book/year fee. If you want me to reissue any of your old Wildside books in print form, let me know. Happy to do so. (And I'll replace Alan's covers with something nice.)
-- John
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:27 PM, <tahiti@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
Hi, John,
Do you know the Citizendium project started by Larry Sanger, one of the co-founders of Wikipedia (although Jimmie Wales doesn't like to be reminded of that)?  It's supposed to be a *better* Wikipedia.  I don't know if it is going to succeed, but I am one of the Main Men there.  There's an article about me there (as well as at Wikipedia):
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Hayford_Peirce
Someone wants to write an article about my novel "The Burr in the Garden of Eden" and would like to upload a scan of the Wildside cover to illustrate the article.  I told him that I'd ask your permission.  Full credit and copyright info, of course, will be given to Wildside.
If you simply email me about this, I will insert your email into the permissions page of the image at some point.
Many thanks, and I'm glad to see that Wildside is apparently doing well these days!
Best,
Hayford Peirce
_________________________________________________________________________
So, as you can see, at least *one* publisher views it as "fair use". [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 21:19, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
==Blockquote vs Quotequote==
Didn't know the preferred format was blockquote, will try to use from now on.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 16:48, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
I really like the colored-quote formats like (I think I saw in [[Biology]] perhaps? You're right the [[Life]] article -- looks great. but won't use).--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 16:48, 22 March 2010 (UTC) --[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 21:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:Well, I think that 99.9% of the quotes in CZ are Blockquotes -- you could ask Howard about it.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:06, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::Tony Sebastian used a lot of colour for quotes in the [[Life]] article.  I seem to remember that was controversial at the time and there was a long debate about it on the forum. The main reasoning for using blockquote was that all quotes will look the same and are controlled by the stylesheet rather than by various templates and/or personalised wikimarkup. The idea is that changes to the style in the future will be consistent and easily implemented across the board. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 17:31, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Sigh.  Yes, I've just taken a look at the Life article.  What to do, what to do? I wish that there were more Constables, or more Editors, or even just ONE functioning Editor-in-Chief.  Or just a plain old Decider.  It's too early to go mix a martini, but I feel like it.  Why do people have to *complicate* things!? [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Be.cau.se we are not cl.on.es we are not pro.gram.ed to obey.  Ve are not ro.bot.s or [[Dalek|Da.leks]] Ve are pe.op.le.  Ve have fau.lts and flaws.  Ve have a cho.ice....Ve have a cho.ice....Ve have no cho.ice....Ex.ter.min.ate....Ex.ter.min.ate....Ex.ter.min.ate....  [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 17:54, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Here is the [http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,2372.0.html old forum discussion]. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 17:59, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:Good grief, I had completely forgotten all that!  Well, the hell with it.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 18:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::Without looking at the Forum thread, it's a general Web best practice to be careful with eye candy, lest one get into browser dependencies, color vision, and the like. With an international audience, one also cannot assume broadband connections. [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]]
:::Yes, that's what I gathered was the gist of the Forum discussion. Anthony had put a *lot* of effort into making his stuff look pretty.  But I think it all depends on which browser one uses, plus other settings, etc. etc.  Remember the character who was sticking in all the Congressmen and using all the extra equal signs?  This is just another example of that, actually. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 20:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::I'll use blockquotes; wouldn't want to be attacked by aliens or orgones or [[darek|dareks]] or have weird sea creatures be attracted by eye candy. When I come across my old <nowiki>{{quote|}}</nowiki> I'll switch them around.--[[User:Thomas Wright Sulcer|Thomas Wright Sulcer]] 21:45, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::Meg, for one, use the quote template.  I'd say not to worry too much at this point. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] 22:08, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

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