Talk:Chiropractic/Draft

The history seems mixed in with the presentation of the theory, which to some extent is unavoidable, but it seems odd to discuss the concept of subluxation _after_ the legal fight with the AMA. DavidGoodman 21:52, 2 November 2006 (CST)

I've re-ordered. I think this is basically a good aricle, and that the historical approach is a good way to explain the subject, I've trimmed it down from the WP original, and thrown some detail into the references. I'm now done with thisGareth Leng 11:06, 7 November 2006 (CST)

lead

I re-wrote some of the lead to bring it into the 21st century. Chiropractic is much bigger and more complicated than just the looking for and treating the mythical subluxation;) We really treat a lot of pain and work with a lot of musculoskeletal problems while asserting that taking care of your spine is a good idea. That is not to say that there weren't all kinds of methods that have been tried and developed over the years, but they can pretty much be boiled down to working toward this end. --D. Matt Innis 20:56, 3 December 2006 (CST)

Thanks Matt. ..."potential nervous system interference"... think we need in the lead to explain things simply, can you have a think about a rewording that might work for say a 14 year old? Gareth Leng 09:07, 4 December 2006 (CST)

I spent all that money to learn how to think like a 14 year old:) There's a joke in there somewhere. You said it best, I just replaced it! --D. Matt Innis 10:33, 4 December 2006 (CST)

Chiropractic vertebral subluxation

I think you're right that the VS should be closer to the top. I also think that we can do a better job explaining it. Lets go for it. I'll try and get it all down and if you would go behind me and clean up that would be fine. --D. Matt Innis 15:15, 5 December 2006 (CST)

Hi Matt. There's one thing I'm very unclear about. DD Palmer clearly saw that promoting chiropractic as a religion might protect it from being taken over by the medical establishment. How much of this was sincere and how much was it just a stategem? In other words, did he deliberately stress the mystical associations of some concepts, in almost a cynical way? Or did he indeed become self deluded and see himself as a prophet?Gareth Leng 05:32, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Gareth, as you know, I have been reading everything I can find to determine this very question for the last 6 months. There are sources that state it both ways. The problem is that there were battles going back and forth from BJ's group vs DD's group and the mixers (John Howard, et al at National, etc.) on the side shaking their heads. Because BJ had taken over the "fountainhead" role, DD was dying to get it back. He tried to open several new schools, even calling one "Fountainhead", but he couldn't pry it loose. Meanwhile, BJ and his group were building a philosophy based profession and finding a way to get the practice of chiropractic legally seperable from medicine. When DD made the "religious" statement, California (the state has was wanting to move to from Oregon) was fighting a fierce battle with medicine to create a law that would protect chiropractors. BJ's straights kept interfering and because chiropractors could not reach a consensus, they were not able to do so. Meanwhile chiropractors were going to jail by the boatloads. Seeing that BJ was becoming the "philosopher" of chiropractic, and seeing how christian scientists had just won the right to practice citing freedom of religion, it does not seem far fetched to see that DD could kill two birds with one stone; become the "leader" of chiropractic again, and free the profession to practice without the threat of jail. From what I can tell, he was rejected, though that could be because he died months later. BJ then covered up his fathers writing until his death in 1963 in the Palmer archives.

So, I think a case can be built either way using resources, but if we put them all together, it looks to me that DD was intially making sound and bold scientific statements about his idea. He was reducing them as he found out new information, even from nerve pinch to no nerve pinch in the intervertebral foramen, etc. But, after going to jail, his attitude changed drastically and the "vital" elements from his past began to show back up. He was really wanting to be a scientist, but because of the political environment, it wasn't going to happen. I really think that the next several generations held these concepts in order to keep medicine from dictating how they could practice until science could catch up, similar to John Howards statement about "DD palcing a veil around chiropractic to protect it until it grew up." --D. Matt Innis 07:07, 6 December 2006 (CST)

On Approval - I think we need to set in place a process for approving this article, and I'd propose that we ask Nancy if she'd take on the role of "objective editorial oversight" to guide and be the ultimate arbitor.Gareth Leng 05:32, 6 December 2006 (CST)

Comments and suggested changes by Nancy

Chiropractic approach to healthcare

current article text : The traditional, 'medical' or 'allopathic' approach to health care regards disease as usually the result of some external influence, such as a toxin, parasite, allergen, or infectious agent: the solution is to counter that influence (e.g. using an antibiotic for a bacterial infection). By contrast, chiropractic involves a naturopathic approach, believing that lowered 'host resistance' is necessary for disease to occur, so the answer is to strengthen the host.[7]

My comment: Allopathy is a historical practice, and does not connotate current medicine. Medicine is simply medicine, the professional current practice of medicine, and not 'medicine ', If you hyperlink medicine to the current CZ article, that might help. I think a line like: "Although host responses and resistance are considered important in medicine, few treatments in mainstream medical practice are actually aimed at fighting disease through augmenting host response alone." In medicine and nursing, host resistance is more often generally approached through nutrition, exercise and physical therapy.

If I wait too long on an editing page, I'll have a problem posting and so my comments are going to be parcelled. more to come. (by the way, I think the writing is very good) Nancy Sculerati MD 07:09, 6 December 2006 (CST)

What about treatment of systemic disease and local infections?

Personally, I would go to a good chiropracter in a minute for a musculo-skeletal problem, and have, in my practice, referred to selected chiropracter's for treatment of back pain. So, I want you to know that I am not an 'enemy physician'. But there is a big issue here that is unsaid. There are many chripracters (at least in NYC) who treat cancer, AIDS, allergy, ear infections in children and basically any illness through adjustments. Some of them tell their patients that antibiotics and other generally accepted medical treatments can interfere with the success of chiropracic therapy. There is nothing at all mentioned in this article about the treatment of specific illnesses, such as breast cancer or gallstones or otitis media in Chiropractic. That is too important to leave unsaid. Matt, could you address it? Do all chiropracters' treat all illnesses? What's the code of ethics for referral? Are there specific schools of chiropractic that have differing outlooks in this regard. I will re-read article, but I don't think this is discussed. Nancy Sculerati MD 07:24, 6 December 2006 (CST)