User talk:Joe Quick/Archive 4

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I'll have to find out how to transclude the definition page, but I'll look at it later. --Robert W King 15:57, 12 April 2008 (CDT)

Can you show me a page that has a def link in context? --Robert W King 16:42, 12 April 2008 (CDT)
On the related articles page, the definition is already transcluded from the template:def page, so I'm not sure I understand what you want to have happen that wouldn't be redundant. --Robert W King 06:45, 13 April 2008 (CDT)


From me, Aleta Curry 03:00, 13 April 2008 (CDT)

Your template {{pl}} is really cool!

Robert: Chris Day just applied your template to the list of my created articles on my Talk page ... and it is really cool!! Just wanted to let you know I like it a lot. - Milton Beychok 14:11, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

Thanks! The idea was inspired by Lee Berger and the code was modified from something I saw Chris do with the subpages template. -Joe Quick 18:05, 12 May 2008 (CDT)
I have created over 45 new articles and I don't check on each of them every day. Recently, two of them were nominated for Approval, but I wasn't aware of that until the last day of the Approval period. Right now, the {{pl}} creates a green check mark image when an article has been approved. Would it be much of a chore to have it create some other mark when an article has been nominated for approval? Perhaps simply a different color check mark? - Milton Beychok 23:22, 13 May 2008 (CDT)

Joe, I took the liberty. See Template:Pl#Up_for_approval. Chris Day 04:00, 14 May 2008 (CDT)

Hi Chris, as I liked this implementation, I tried the same for {{rpl}} but seem to have to come too close to the system limits again for some of the larger article lists (core and biology). Any suggestions? -- Daniel Mietchen 04:27, 14 May 2008 (CDT)

Thank you

Today the Dokdo article will be approved. Thank you for all the efforts you put in. The article is in so much better shape now. I can compare the two and see so much positive difference. If you hadn't come in to check on the article, I wouldn't have checked on it either and several key flaws would have remained on the article upon approval. Thank you again. (Chunbum Park 11:00, 21 July 2008 (CDT))

You're welcome. If our collaboration helped to make the article better, then the Citizendium system is clearly working. --Joe Quick 09:39, 22 July 2008 (CDT)

From your friendly neighbourhood mistress of ceremonies

Hi Joe--I see you signed in at The August Party. Do join us on Wednesday September 2nd for what I hope will be a very active party with music, music, music. Theme: "My Favourite Band" (or, 'ensemble' or 'group' or 'orchestra' or 'singer' or 'recording' or...?

Hope school's going well. Aleta Curry 00:18, 8 August 2008 (CDT)

Joe Lewis

Ho Joe, remember in January 08 you asked me to approve the article on Joe Lewis..which I did. I was just perusing the sports group looking for drafts and found that the Joe Lewis article is still listed under drafts as well as approved. I don't know how to remedy this.Gary Giamboi 18:36, 24 August 2008 (CDT)

I think what you're seeing is the approved article in the approved category and the draft in the draft category. That sounds like a really dumb explanation, let me explain. The draft is there for people to further develop while the approved version is locked and cannot be edited. If the draft is ever developed to the point that it is better than the locked article, then an editor can "re-approve" it and the locked article will be replaced with the improved draft. --Joe Quick 18:50, 24 August 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the quick reply. Do most people know this? I didn't. If people do not know it, then they will just see that the approved article can't be changed. Gary Giamboi 21:46, 24 August 2008 (CDT

That's a good question. I assumed that most people knew, but maybe not. There's a pretty prominent notice at the top of approved articles that says "Help improve this article further on the draft page!" but we might want to put another note on the page that people see when they try to edit a locked page. I'll look into that. --Joe Quick 08:56, 26 August 2008 (CDT)
That would probably be useful, Joe, if it could be done -- to have a notice pop up if someone *does* try to edit the approved page; ALSO telling them to go to the draft article for editing. Hayford Peirce 11:20, 26 August 2008 (CDT)

New Article on Gender

Hi, Joe -- Don't know if you noticed, but I've started a new article on gender on User:Timothy Perper/Sandbox. It will be longer, thoroughly referenced, and deal with a number of topics not in the present article. Come over and let me know what you think -- and check User:Timothy Perper to see my credentials for undertaking the revision. Hope you come by and comment! Timothy Perper 18:38, 27 September 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the Air Force

I moved some misplaced text and didn't realize how it would expand. Thanks for catching it. Howard C. Berkowitz 21:16, 3 October 2008 (CDT)

Re Flickr photos

Thanks, Joe, for educating me about how to find usable photos on Flickr.

I still have a problem. For example, I want to use the photo at which I found by searching the Creative Commons-licensed content. The photo is tagged as "Some restrictions" and when I click on that, I am told that Attribution is necessary. That's my problem ... all I can find is that it was uploaded by "Screwtape" (obviously not a real name) and I can find no way to contact him/her to ask what attribution is wanted. What do I do? Do I upload it to CZ and then create a credit line for "Screwtape" ? Or do I simply create a credit line for "Flickr" ? Or what? Milton Beychok 05:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Milt, I replied in the forums where more people are likely to see it. --Joe Quick 18:06, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Joe, i have a related question. In some cases more than attribution is required, permission too. In those cases the template {{Incompatible}} appears at the bottom. For example, i uploaded this picture recently. So far we have over 300 of these images, however, there does not seem to be any way to know if permission has be recieved for photo's in that category or not. Shouldn't there be a persmission field on the image page that once filled causes the template {{Incompatible}} to disappear. In that way we can distinguish between those images we have permission to use and those that we still need to seek permission. Does this make sense? Chris Day 19:17, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Chris, 5 of those photos you collected are mine and none of them require any further permission. The Incompatability temple appears on those 5 for 'some reason other than needing perission.

  • Image:Sulfur Piles.jpg: was obtained from Flickr and the photographer did not request permission be obtained. However, he had certain requirements (such as attribution, no commercial use, no derivatives).
  • Image:Industrial Piping.jpg: was obtained from Flickr and the photographer did not request permission be obtained. However, he had certain requirements (such as attribution, no commercial use, no derivatives).
  • Image:NCAR Building.jpg: was obtained from Flickr and the photographer did not request permission be obtained. However, he had certain requirements (such as attribution, no commercial use, no derivatives).
  • Image:Industrial air pollution plume.jpg: was obtained from and their License Agreement does not require obtaining permission. The Image file even has a Morgue file licensing template.
  • Image:Screw Compressor Male and Female Screws.jpg: This was obtained from a manufacturer's website. Written permission was obtained and the Image file links to the Permission subpage that I created. They did require attribution, no commercial use and no-resizing.

It appears to me that the Incompatability template appears for some reason other than a lack of pernmission. Milton Beychok 22:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it has to do with the license the photographer chooses. i assume what the license states is more important that what the photographer writes in his profile (or where ever they note that permission is not needed?). Maybe the photographer does not realise that users need to seek his permission by choosing that particular license? In short I'm totally confused. :( Chris Day 23:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
CC license, green are OK but for yellow we need permission according to our automatic upload.
So am I confused. Milton Beychok 23:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Here is a summary of the options of CC and Flickr (see figure at right). Chris Day 00:01, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

No additional permission is required to use those images here. The incompatible message is intended for people who want to reuse our content. If someone wants to copy one of our articles and it contains an image that is not in the public domain and is licensed under something other than the Creative Commons Attribution or Attribution-Share Alike licenses, then they cannot copy the photo along with the article unless they meet the additional requirements of the more restrictive license under which the photo is released. The incompatibility message simply means that the photo is used under something other than our site-wide license.

The color coding system was designed by Stephen Ewen, who designated green as "high-free" licenses, yellow as "low-free", and red as restrictive. It is based, I believe, on the level of "freedom" we have to modify and reuse images.

I hope this makes sense. I just woke up... --Joe Quick 13:41, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this makes perfect sense. Stephen did a great job automating this legal minefield. Is there a set of take home messages anywhere? For example, I did see this page, CZ:Media_Credit_Lines_within_Articles but that does not explain the color code. Chris Day 14:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Two things

(1) Joe, did you get the email I sent you a few days ago by CZ email? Not having had a reply, I thought that perhaps it got lost in cyber space.

(2) Just above is a list of the file upload license options that use "BlahBlahBlahBlahBlah...." as the license. You suggested earlier that such a list would be helpful.

I hope that you got your thesis in last Friday and all went well with it. Milton Beychok 22:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I did get it. But I've been at work so I haven't had time to give it the attention it deserves. I'm going to have another look at the article and then I can give you some more specific feedback.
The list will be very helpful but it looks like I will need to get higher level access to the wiki in order to make the appropriate adjustments. I'll have a look at that this week as well. --Joe Quick 02:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll wait. Milton Beychok 04:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Joe, I can edit those mediawiki pages since I need the access for the subpages template. Are you planning on finishing off Stephens work? I was contemplating it, but I really don't know enough about copyright to do the job correctly. Let me know if you want a hand. Or ask Larry to give you the sysop power to finish the job. We could really do with it completed as it is a bit confusing at the moment. The bits that work are superb so this is really worth finishing up. Chris Day 00:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Bobby Driscoll - misleading description

Hello Joe,

Thanks for your message. Yes, my Wikipedia-pseudonym is Bylot. When I started editing the former text on Bobby Driscoll in about March 2008 it was just a poor stub, and not very much is left now from the “original” text. The articles on Billy Chapin and Sally Jane Bruce I also extended from brief a-few-lines stubs up to the today C and Start articles. So in all three cases I consider myself the actual major author of them. Yet, I'll remove all three WPauthor templates. --Oliver Renye 19:51, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Joe, I saw your fix. I knew about the HTML solution, but I used TeX because Milton complained that his browser does not show these special HTML characters. But I'm afraid that we have to disappoint Milton and leave the HTML where you put it. Thanks. --Paul Wormer 07:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. I didn't realize there would be browser issues. It doesn't look like the TOC can process TeX, so we might have to accept that some people will not be able to see it properly in order to make sure that most people can. --Joe Quick 15:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

minor edit

Did your experiment work? I think the minor edit needs to be made to the article itself. The articles to approve category is at the foot of the talk page of the specific article so I think it is the talk page that needs to be jogged to update that category.

I just jogged the Baird talk page. This bug is one reason why i want to move almost all categories to the metadarta template, so the categories get updated every time the metadata is changed. While this solution is easy there is a technical problem. I need to contact the bug people to s if it can be fixed, see here for a discussion relating to the issue: Chris Day 18:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

No, that didn't work. I wanted to find a way to jog the whole category at once in case there are articles that have been nominated but that I didn't notice. I had been trying to jog it with edits to the main article page but hadn't thought of trying the talk page. --Joe Quick 18:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
It's not obvious, but a category on the talk page shows up in the category without the "talk:" at the front. It's useful since the maintenance catagories do not then clutter the bottom of the articles. Chris Day 19:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
If we can't get all the categories onto the metadata template another posability is to train a bot to recognise edits to the metadata template and then go in and job the talk page and article page automatically. You're right that it would be very easy to "lose" articles that are tagged for approval. Chris Day 19:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I thought about checking out which articles link to Image:Toapprove.png, which is used primarily for the Toapprove notice, but that list doesn't seem to update any quicker. --Joe Quick 20:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Yea, i tried that too ;) Did you see the forum thread related to this at,2558.0.html ? Chris Day 20:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Yep, that's part of what got me thinking about this. I just replied there too. --Joe Quick 20:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Venn diagram

Joe I have been thinking along the same lines but I have not begun to code it. There are three ways to go here.

One is to code every possible two and three combo (even up to six if one considers subgroups). I think this is too much work, and besides most combinations will be empty. The number of categories at the bottom of the articles might balloon too.

Alternatively, target specific combinations that we know are useful. Did you have a combination in mind? I could code that into the subpages template so you get that category.

Lastly, we could get a bot to go through and collect all the metadata and then give us the output. In the long run this would be a better solution.

I first thought about it when Melissa was wanting to flag the articles, if you read that discussion in the forum. This would give us a clear and useable way to subdivide our articles into more refined groupings. Even better they can be in many different groupings depending on which workgroups and subgroups we want to filter for. If you can think of a neat way to do this i think we should push it hard. Chris Day 18:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Another search idea here. I had not thought about that approach but it seems to work pretty well. Chris Day 01:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Onslow Beach

I asked my housemate, who was on active duty at Camp Lejeune, what he could tell me about Onslow Beach. His first comment was "it's where you go to drink beer." Next, he said "it's a recreational area." On thinking about it, he said it was rarely used for landings -- Marines went there for fun. Howard C. Berkowitz 04:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

My own approval backlog

I've had a number of articles, some in Computers and some in Military, waiting for months in Ready to Approve. In general, I've stopped trying to get Approval due to being the main Editor in Computers and the only active editor in Military.

In one case, we did get an approval in something that was principally Military, but was an example of Engineering nomenclature, AN-. In this case, Milt, who is not at all a subject matter expert, reviewed it for it being a rational engineering approach to designation, and got some non-Editor citizen comments on the specific topic. In general, however, I haven't bothered to put Engineering and/or Computers on principally Military subjects, and have been cutting back on the times I put History. With some of the intelligence, especially interrogation and human sources, I do put a social science on it.

Is there anything to be done with Military? There are a couple that have been Articles of the Week Dien Bien Phu and Battle of the Ia Drang; there started to be some History editor review but it did get into a expert comfort level issue.

I've also had several pure Computers articles in Ready for Approval for months. If an Editor says "not ready", I'll fix them. In one case, Domain Name Service; there are different opinions about what should be in the top-level article, which links to many reasonably developed subarticles.

Incidentally, there are several active Citizens that either academically, or by experience we fully recognize in the profession, qualified, in my experience, to be Computers Editors, but who have elected not to do so. Howard C. Berkowitz 15:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll tackle the computers articles once we have things straightened out on the cryptography article (don't want to overload people). For installing current authors as editors, you should send an email to someone from Category:CZ_Editorial_Personnel_Administrators --Joe Quick 17:25, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
No, the problem is not getting them named Editors. The problem is that they don't want to be Editors, just Authors. Do you have convincing arguments? I've failed.
Anything you can do to find a Military editor would be much appreciated. Howard C. Berkowitz 17:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
I see. Are there specific reasons (such as: I don't have enough time, I'm not qualified, I don't understand the job, etc.) or just general apathy about the position? Assuming that I am confirmed as Approvals Manager, I'll be able to provide good encouragement.
I don't think I know anyone who would be qualified to be an Editor in Military but I have some ideas about recruitment. Again, waiting on confirmation wo that I have a title to work with. --Joe Quick 17:57, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Not sure. My guess is it's more personality and not wanting that role. Howard C. Berkowitz 18:13, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

About this article

Hi, Joe: See my Talk page where I responded to your question about this article ... and thanks for thinking of me. Milton Beychok 15:33, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Hydrodesulfurization is due for final Approval today.

Joe, I don't know now if I should be reminding you as well as Matt Innis, so I reminding both of you that Hydrodesulfurization is due for the final Approval magic touch today. Milton Beychok 15:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)